Irrational Fear Of Terrorists? Options

[Todd Simpson]

Sadly, as I mentioned, no wall or law will keep those out who want to come in. Those things have never and will never work. So as long as people from elsewhere want to come here, they will find someone to pay to help them get here. This is the spark of human trafficking. Yet another thing that laws/walls have failed to stop since supply/demand simply wins out. We could make laws and build walls till we are blue in the face and it won't change anything at all. Given that, the laws on it are mostly irrelevant, just as most laws against illegal drugs are, but that's another topic. What we are left with then is what to do. Thankfully we have done a great job of integrating our Muslim population compared to many parts of the E.U. where they are considered pariahs.

Vigilance in terms of awareness of outcomes is what I"m talking about here. Not vigilance as in putting our hopes in laws and walls. Immigrants could be called "criminal" for being here illegally, but anyone whose broken any law can be called a criminal. Breaking the speed limit, fudging on ones taxes, etc. are simple examples of lawbreaking and thus, criminality, that most of us engage in. Making most of us "criminals" in the strictest sense. Those things are mostly attractive from an authoritarian viewpoint. I'm not big on authoritarianism simply because it's impractical in the long term. I"m speaking of political authoritarianism here in a traditional Political Science type of view. I found a great vid on this. It does speak, in part to the rise of Mr. Trump, and the attraction to the authoritarian view, partially.

I could not agree less.

You integrate groups of immigrants through legal means. Immigrants that are here by legal means and are wishing to assimilate into our culture and ideals. You don't give illegal criminals with no interest in assimilation blanket amnesty. To do so would not be anything resembling vigilance.

Klasaine: BINGO yet again Or should I just say "NAILED IT" for those not familiar with Bingo Not everyone is a bingo fan after all.

It's not the fear of terrorism that is irrational, it's the (irrational) amount of emphasis on it.
We should absolutely be vigilant and aware but irrational fear is what breeds totalitarianism.

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[Spock]

The reason for the shift in party is that the left has swung too far left. The democrat party left their moderates - just like when Reagan flipped to being a Republican and said, "I didn't leave my party - my party left me".

Sure Trump is going to be more authoritarian and that is what we (his voter base) are wanting in a candidate right now - someone that will clean house - Republicans and Democrats. If the political climate in the U.S. had not changed so drastically since 1990 we probably wouldn't see a Trump running for office right now. The issues would probably be something completely different if NAFTA had never been enacted and multicultural - political correctness had not been funneled down everyone's throat. Then maybe we could vote for someone I would truly like to see in office like a Ron or Rand Paul, fighting the Federal Reserve and the IRS. Most of Trump's voter base would love to see more liberties, less government intervention and a flat/fair tax - but unfortunately because of the failings of Clinton/Bush/Obama other issues are more important.

It's a political pendulum.

What Trump does represent is not Republicanism as an establishment - but a conservative foundation. Like Ron and Rand Paul who are libertarians. We are not nicely packaged into a republican mould,

For instance - when I take political position tests, I actually end up just to the left of center. So people that believe themselves to be moderate in their liberal views actually find they are way out to the left of the political scale.

We see the liberal left and RINO neocons as screaming little brats and instead of a parent that are going to coddle them because of feelings and political correctness - we're voting for someone brazen enough to take them behind the woodshed and whip their asses as they should be. And Donald Trump represents that and it is apparent that most in the country want this as well - because Sanders represents the same type of vote against the establishment on the Democrat side.

And I hope Sander's supporters flock to Trump en masse once the dust has settled from the Super Delegates handing Clinton the nomination and rendering their voice mute.

People can bash Trump all they want but one thing is certain, the trail of corruption for him is not going to be anything like what we're going to be talking about in the coming months with Hillary.

This is why I am voting for Trump...

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This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 10 2016, 11:27 AM

[AK Rich]

Awesome post Spock. You have your finger on the pulse of the country right now. I especially liked the woodshed comment.

Building a wall may not put a stop to illegal immigration but it will go a long way in managing the massive influx we are seeing lately that is largely a direct result of unlawful actions taken by our current president and to a degree ,the inactions of previous presidents and congress.

It was mentioned that our immigration laws are irrelevant. Yeah, that's the problem. They need to be made relevant again.

No country can survive unfettered illegal immigration. That is actually called an invasion. There has to be limits and we must be able to properly screen and limit those that seek to come here in order to avoid overwhelming the system and overburdening taxpayers and to protect citizens from the criminal element that would come here only to cause a lot of trouble.

I think many in this country and some here in this forum see what is happening in recent years as business as usual and are turning a blind eye to the reality of the situation in the name of misguided compassion so that they can feel better about themselves. To each his own.

Allowing Muslims to come to this country and have their own set of laws (Sharia etc ) that are in direct conflict to our laws and constitution is NOT integration. It is basically starting another country within a country. To truly assimilate into this country, those ancient religious laws must be completely abandoned and denounced by would be Muslim immigrants. Anything less is unacceptable.

It has been talked about in this thread how there are all these other dangers that folks should be more worried about than terrorism. But the thing is, the majority of these things are the responsibility of the individual to avoid and there are plenty of warnings given about the dangers of those things and recommendations for avoiding them as well (drugs, smoking etc). If an individual chooses to ignore these warnings then that is their choice and their right to do so. On the other hand, national security and protecting the citizens of this country is governments primary role as it should be.

I think that if as a country we continue down this path on the left that government will increasingly take the role of a parent and dictate to us what foods we can eat or what activities we can take part in and we will be increasingly limited in making our own choices as to the kind of lifestyle we want to have, and what government describes as fact to justify the rules or laws it puts forth will be largely unchallengable by the people no matter how ridiculous those so called facts and laws might be.

There is a very real threat of terrorism to this country and to suggest or imply that maybe we shouldn't worry about it because it is against the odds is completely irresponsible in my view and ignores the reality of the situation.

Is the threat of terrorism overhyped? Maybe, or maybe not. Time will tell. I know I would rather be safe than sorry and err on the side of caution.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Jun 10 2016, 08:33 PM

[klasaine]

OK, there's never gonna be any place in the US of A where there will be Sharia Law.
Come on, that's what I'm talking about when I say 'irrational' fear.
I know that a few states have actually passed legislation that 'bans' it ... except that we don't have it. That's the point when I just throw up my hands.

As for Bernie supporters going over to Donald Trump ... there will of course be some. I even know a few but my gut tells me that the majority, when push comes to shove, will vote democratic even if they think Hillary Clinton is a corporate owned she devil.
It'll most likely come down to the Supreme court vacancy and who folks want to see as the ninth justice.
November is still a long, hot summer and 5 months away.

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[Todd Simpson]

Well said yet again Klaisaine There is not now, ANY place in the U.S that has adapted Sharia Law on the books. I dare say it won't happen either as Muslims who do come here tend to integrate and moderate, thankfully. There are HUGE communities of muslims here in the states that own small biz's, pay taxes and pray 5 times a day. That's it. Or example, Dearborn Michigan has a HUGE muslim population and they are among the most peaceful, moderate, law abiding citizens we have. Here is a documentary about them. By integrating, they become a bit "Americanized" and are not attracted to extremism. That is the ONLY real cure for extremism. Opportunity. That's it, not laws/guns/wars/etc. None of that works. If it was going to work, it would have worked already. Here is the vid.



It is this irrational fear of the "other" that has been soooooo overhyped and has resulted in the attraction toward the "Strong Man" E.G. trump (historically other figures as well) to come in an "KICK ASS" and fix things. This is the authoritarian impulse that is discussed in the last video I posted. And again, it's just not a practical approach as it breeds the exact opposite of what is intended. E.G. instead of submission, it breeds rebellion/revolution, which is the natural ending cycle of every authoritarian regime through history. We simply know how that story ends. Badly.

Yet none of this will change the minds of any Trump supporters. It just won't. They have been taken in by the authoritarian message and brash style of Trump that simply rings true in the hearts of about half the country. And if he gets the votes, he will be the president of the People. It's just that simple. I"m trying to point out the long term problems with the approach he represents in a historical/political context. It's never gone well. Mussolini was a "Strong Man" as well, as was Stalin. I don't think Hillary is the answer either to be honest. We don't have a valid choice imho. So we have to make do.

I think the real answer is local. Very local. As in on the personal level. Our own actions, thoughts, words are what impact our own head space and the space around us. Giving folks a chance, a break, a job, a pat on the back, etc. Will always have more positive outcomes than taking the opposite approach IMHO.

I"ve taught at the university level, and taught children. From that I've learned that, in the end, it's really the same thing. All you can do is encourage those around you and try to be a positive example of a human being. Strive for fairness and tolerance and inclusiveness. It's teaching that taught me this and why I think everyone should teach something at some point. All change starts local IMHO

OK, there's never gonna be any place in the US of A where there will be Sharia Law.
Come on, that's what I'm talking about when I say 'irrational' fear.
I know that a few states have actually passed legislation that 'bans' it ... except that we don't have it. That's the point when I just throw up my hands.

As for Bernie supporters going over to Donald Trump ... there will of course be some. I even know a few but my gut tells me that the majority, when push comes to shove, will vote democratic even if they think Hillary Clinton is a corporate owned she devil.
It'll most likely come down to the Supreme court vacancy and who folks want to see as the ninth justice.
November is still a long, hot summer and 5 months away.

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 11 2016, 03:56 AM

[jstcrsn]

OK, there's never gonna be any place in the US of A where there will be Sharia Law.
Come on, that's what I'm talking about when I say 'irrational' fear.
I know that a few states have actually passed legislation that 'bans' it ... except that we don't have it. That's the point when I just throw up my hands.

As for Bernie supporters going over to Donald Trump ... there will of course be some. I even know a few but my gut tells me that the majority, when push comes to shove, will vote democratic even if they think Hillary Clinton is a corporate owned she devil.
It'll most likely come down to the Supreme court vacancy and who folks want to see as the ninth justice.
November is still a long, hot summer and 5 months away.

It's not that it will ever be on the books , it's that it will be done simultaneously inside the Us and political correctness will tie Our hands . ( like the more than forty sharia law centers in England)
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/29/u-s-shar...als-no-problem/
Not irrational fear Ken and Todd , Going on as we debate

Sadly, as I mentioned, no wall or law will keep those out who want to come in.

funny that you don't believe this to be true of the new gun laws you have wanted in other threads

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 11 2016, 04:28 AM

[Spock]

I would have never thought we'd see a major liberal political news source give voice to pedophiles, or that there'd be serious discussion or laws about gender and bathrooms.

When it comes to liberals - never say never.

Remember, you can be a 7 foot Chinese woman if you claim to identify as such. Welcome to generation snowflake.

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This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 11 2016, 09:55 AM

[klasaine]

This is a poster from the 70's that used to be hanging in the place I'd go to get a haircut when I was a little kid. I always got a kick out of it ...



We've been going to the bathroom with guys and gals in drag since forever - we just don't notice it.
In many other parts of the world, being able to have gender specific toilets, is a luxury (due to space/economics).

There's not going to be an over-preponderance of pervs waiting in the john for your daughter or girlfriend. At least not any more than there already are. Anybody dressed any way they want can slip into any bathroom. How many real and verified incidents of a trans dude dressing as a chick and hiding in the ladies bathroom (possibly practicing Sharia Law) to attack a gal have you heard of or know about? *In 35 years of non-discrimination ordinances world-wide, there has only been one verified case of a non-trans person taking advantage of the situation. It happened in Canada in 2012.
And how are you ever gonna know anyway unless you post a guard checking penises and vaginas?

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Jun 11 2016, 05:09 PM

[AK Rich]

OK, there's never gonna be any place in the US of A where there will be Sharia Law.
Come on, that's what I'm talking about when I say 'irrational' fear.
I know that a few states have actually passed legislation that 'bans' it ... except that we don't have it. That's the point when I just throw up my hands.

I should have been more careful how I worded that statement. My bad. Currently there are no Sharia courts or tribunals but it certainly isn't from a lack of trying which is why some states have banned it, but even so there are court challenges to these laws backed by various Islamic groups.
I certainly hope you are right though.

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[AK Rich]

This is a poster from the 70's that used to be hanging in the place I'd go to get a haircut when I was a little kid. I always got a kick out of it ...



We've been going to the bathroom with guys and gals in drag since forever - we just don't notice it.
In many other parts of the world, being able to have gender specific toilets, is a luxury (due to space/economics).

There's not going to be an over-preponderance of pervs waiting in the john for your daughter or girlfriend. At least not any more than there already are. Anybody dressed any way they want can slip into any bathroom. How many real and verified incidents of a trans dude dressing as a chick and hiding in the ladies bathroom (possibly practicing Sharia Law) to attack a gal have you heard of or know about? *In 35 years of non-discrimination ordinances world-wide, there has only been one verified case of a non-trans person taking advantage of the situation. It happened in Canada in 2012.
And how are you ever gonna know anyway unless you post a guard checking penises and vaginas?

Actually there have been other instances of this, many that haven't played out in the courts yet. Here is one for you.

"A Fredericksburg man was arrested Monday at Potomac Mills Mall after, police say, he dressed in women's clothes and attempted to film a woman through a bathroom stall – the third such incident since May."

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/police...d12cd8f99a.html

And what about school locker rooms and showers? Should a boy be able to declare himself a girl and join the girls in school showers or showers at a public pool?

And what about sports? A man/boy that identifies as a woman/girl should be able to compete with females even though they are biologically a male?

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Congro-381191581.html

Also, I have to wonder if this bathroom and shower policy will be enacted in our prisons and how that will play out as well.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Jun 11 2016, 07:26 PM

[Todd Simpson]

You are saying that " we are going to have SHARIA LAW and "Political Correctness" will tie our hands? " Thankfully, no amount of PC could motivate regular folks to accept Sharia law. I'll go ahead and put myself out on a limb on that one If you find any evidence to the contrary please share with the group. For now, that sounds like the type of quasi semi-paranoia that get's pitched on right wing radio shows to work people up and make them listen to commercials (per Mr. K's great post on manipulation of the masses through Terror). It has no basis in reality, thank goodness. But we are making progress as you just made one of Mr. K's main points for him. On the whole I'd say thats a positive step.

The link you posted doesn't work sadly , but even it it did, it's about England, not the U.S. England qualifies as one of those places in Europe I just mentioned in a previous post that does NOT do well integrating Muslims and therefore has increased rates of extremism compared to the U.S. (Stats o plenty on that if needed) So you have made one of my points for me as well Now that's progress. However, Yale has been funded by the Saudis (Taking money from Petro States is a bad idea in Academia IMHO) to build a Sharia law center of study, but that's an academic institution, not putting sharia on the streets and forcing it on people. So thinking that we are going to have Sharia here, does in fact seem an irrational fear as we don't have it, and since we don't, how could political correctness be binding us to it? So there's that sorted

Third point. The new gun laws that "I've wanted"? in other threads? I'm all for folks owning guns. I own one myself as I've said I do think they should be kept safe in the home, and I"d support a law for Gun Lockers. Is that what you are talking about? If so, then yes I do not support "New Gun Laws" that would restrict ownership, as I've said People should have the right to buy whatever weapon they desire, so long as they are not crazy. Crazy folks should not be given guns though. I'd say that

It's not that it will ever be on the books , it's that it will be done simultaneously inside the Us and political correctness will tie Our hands . ( like the more than forty sharia law centers in England)
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/29/u-s-shar...als-no-problem/
Not irrational fear Ken and Todd , Going on as we debate



funny that you don't believe this to be true of the new gun laws you have wanted in other threads

That seems entirely unrelated to our thread her on the irrational fear of terrorists? But everyone has the right to express themselves so feel free I certainly don't support pedophilia in any form and would support the death penalty for anyone convicted for it (yup I'm a "deather" despite being a libertarian).

I don't see how your post relates to our discussion though, but then again I could just be missing something. If so I apologize and please do fill me in.

Todd

I would have never thought we'd see a major liberal political news source give voice to pedophiles, or that there'd be serious discussion or laws about gender and bathrooms.

When it comes to liberals - never say never.

Remember, you can be a 7 foot Chinese woman if you claim to identify as such. Welcome to generation snowflake.

Yet more good points from Mr. K I think this entire issue has been blown way out of proportion. Again, not related to the thread it seems but since it's the second post on it, I guess we are branching out since we seem to have sorted the previous arguments, hopefully

It reminds me of "Voter Fraud" (also beyond the scope here, but what the heck). Which barely exists, yet was given much air time on FAUX news and their ilk as if it were a national disaster. The true travesty on voting rights is how far we need to go still after JIM CROWE. We lose more legit votes than we ever stand to lose over "fraud votes" based on every study I"ve ever read from any source not funded by the Koch brother or the heritage foundation. Both of which are sorta like letting the fox guard the hen house in all honesty. The Pew research center though is one I do trust as they don't start out with pre defined answer and work toward it. So maybe we can agree on pew data just so we can have some data to look at

There will always be "pervs". Always. This law really doesn't change that. As far as school showers go, each state will have to figure out how to best approach this issue as each one is a bit different. Anyone of highschool age or under that is "trans" is going through a living hell just being in Highschool. I can't imagine the abuse they'd get. Especially here in the south. Some sort of solution will be needed for sure. I'd support private stalls, or even letting them use the teacher restrooms, just to keep everyone a bit more "safe" and prevent kids from having the crap kicked out of them for being who they are.

As for adults trying this who are not actually trans? I'd say bash them silly for good measure and lock them up.

This is a poster from the 70's that used to be hanging in the place I'd go to get a haircut when I was a little kid. I always got a kick out of it ...



We've been going to the bathroom with guys and gals in drag since forever - we just don't notice it.
In many other parts of the world, being able to have gender specific toilets, is a luxury (due to space/economics).

There's not going to be an over-preponderance of pervs waiting in the john for your daughter or girlfriend. At least not any more than there already are. Anybody dressed any way they want can slip into any bathroom. How many real and verified incidents of a trans dude dressing as a chick and hiding in the ladies bathroom (possibly practicing Sharia Law) to attack a gal have you heard of or know about? *In 35 years of non-discrimination ordinances world-wide, there has only been one verified case of a non-trans person taking advantage of the situation. It happened in Canada in 2012.
And how are you ever gonna know anyway unless you post a guard checking penises and vaginas?

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 11 2016, 10:22 PM

[jstcrsn]

You are saying that " we are going to have SHARIA LAW and "Political Correctness" will tie our hands? " Thankfully, no amount of PC could motivate regular folks to accept Sharia law. I'll go ahead and put myself out on a limb on that one If you find any evidence to the contrary please share with the group. For now, that sounds like the type of quasi semi-paranoia that get's pitched on right wing radio shows to work people up and make them listen to commercials. It has no basis in reality, thank goodness. But we are making progress as you just made one of Mr. K's main points for him. On the whole I'd say thats a positive step.

The link you posted doesn't work sadly , but even it it did, it's about England, not the U.S. England qualifies as one of those places in Europe I just mentioned in a previous post that does NOT do well integrating Muslims and therefore has increased rates of extremism. So you have made one of my points for me as well Now that's progress. Yale has been funded by the Saudis to build a Sharia law center of study, but that's an academic institution, not putting sharia on the streets and forcing it on people. So thinking that we are going to have Sharia here, does in fact seem an irrational fear as we don't have it, and since we don't, how could political correctness be binding us to it? So there's that sorted

Third point. The new gun laws that "I've wanted"? in other threads? I'm all for folks owning guns. I own one myself as I've said I do think they should be kept safe in the home, and I"d support a law for Gun Lockers. Is that what you are talking about? If so, then yes I do not support "New Gun Laws" that would restrict ownership, as I've said

I said (plain as day) it will not be on the books and I guess i was unclear as it I do not believe it will be be held against Americans ever ! . However Sharia law centers have no business in the U.S. and I believe that political correctness will stop Law enforcement from shutting them down. I can't believe you don't fight more for women's rights as it pertains the way these courts treat them. just to make clear I do not believe they will force it on non muslims , but they should not justify honor killings , underage marriage and so on on American soil. http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/29/u-s-shar...als-no-problem/

Always Love how you say" that settles that ' , like you some how are patting yourself on the back and were capable of shutting down all remarks with your blistering response

On to the gun laws , your response was that "LAWS" and walls wont stop them and you are mostly right ( if the wall won't work , why is there outrage) , but in the same way, Laws will not stop criminals from breaking them and or from peoples stupidity.
But I also don't think you should make laws telling people what they should do in their own House, wasn't hat the arguing points for homosexual marriage , growing pot and so on ?

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 12 2016, 01:54 AM

[Spock]

It was in response to never seeing sharia law in the U.S.

But I will say that "yes - political correctness will tie our hands". Unless we fight political correctness.

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[PosterBoy]

You want to get better sources than the Daily Mail, Daily Express, and The Sun when it comes to new in England, there is a lot of unfounded scaremongering and lazy journalism going on in those outlets. It would be like me going to Fox news for my news on the US.

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[jstcrsn]

You want to get better sources than the Daily Mail, Daily Express, and The Sun when it comes to new in England, there is a lot of unfounded scaremongering and lazy journalism going on in those outlets. It would be like me going to Fox news for my news on the US.

Is it the BBC that tells you Fox news is not Real ?
Fox repeatedly scores higher as a trusted news source in America . news outlets with differing views have talked people into believing it's Faux news . Am I really supposed to put in who the opposing team wants as pitcher


It's funny that somehow the liberals get to tell conservatives that their news sources are wrong , But when the shoe is on the other foot !

This is another reason for trump , we are tired of the bullshit the regular media is feeding ( as Todd mentioned earlier in this thread) us and Trump seems to be the only one standing up to them

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 12 2016, 12:40 PM

[Spock]

Compared to CNN, MSNBC and all the main stream news media outlets - Fox is the only one that doesn't follow the liberal agenda.

That's why it's hated. Sure, there is no doubt Fox op-ed hosts have a conservative bent, but news is news - and Fox will report on news that the liberal MSM won't touch because it doesn't play into their script.

I get most my news from Drudge.

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[Todd Simpson]

Seriously sad news today as 50 people are dead in a shooting in a gay bar in Orlando Florida just last night. The shooter is an American with leanings toward extremism and was a serious bigot (per his father) toward the gay community. His rage and hate finally won over and he went out and killed 50 innocent people just for being at a gay club. My thought's and prayers are with those who have lost loved ones. This is just a couple of blocks from the shooter of the Singer from 'The Voice" which just happened and was all over the news.

This is the WORST MASS SHOOTING IN U.S. HISTORY.

It's very sad and was done by a 29 year old resident of Florida. An American Born, U.S. Citizen. He is of Afghan ancestry and his father has told reporters that he "Self Identified" with ISIS. A single, lone wolf, nut job, self starter who didn't cross the border, wasn't invading the country, grew up here, and decided to embrace hate and mass murder. His hatred of folks who are different than he is lead him to violence. It is my sincere hope that we take heed of this an example of what home grown, hate based, terror looks like, and try our best, as a people, to avoid the hatred and bigotry that led this guy to take so many lives. I"m sure this will be covered on all the news outlets as I"m watching it on BBC right now. It will be on the other outlets as well.

This incident will have seriously negative outcomes for the millions of folks who just want to live in peace and go to work, but happen to share a religion with this nut job guy. Very sad.

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 12 2016, 11:35 PM

[AK Rich]

Irrational fear huh? I think this thread just got shut down by reality and todays headlines.

I can assure you what I am feeling right now is NOT fear.

http://drudgereport.com/

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Jun 12 2016, 07:04 PM

[Spock]

Days before Orlando attack, ISIS issued this WARNING…

ISIS Muslim terrorists released a statement on their plan to attack Florida, and even put out a list with the names of people in Florida that they plan on killing.

According to one report: A pro-Isis group has released a hit list with the names of more than 8,000 people, mostly Americans. More than 600 people live in Florida, and one security expert believes that many of those targeted live in Palm Beach County and on the Treasure Coast.

Read More

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[jstcrsn]

And already Obama is trying to use this for gun control

Obama said " we don't have the facts yet" and then turns right around and says that this tragedy highlights how easy it is to get a gun like this
If you don't have the fn facts How can this jerkwad say it was easy for him to get the gun

Once again , lets take the guns from law abiding citizens
https://www.yahoo.com/news/orlando-fla-ap-g...-000000701.html

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 13 2016, 01:12 AM