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> Youtube Vids, Trump Or Not To Trump?
IS TRUMP A FASCIST?
IS DONALD TRUMP A "FASCIST"?
YES [ 3 ] ** [42.86%]
NO [ 4 ] ** [57.14%]
Total Votes: 7
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 20 2016, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 19 2016, 09:32 PM) *
Here is a video showing OBAMA'S SECRET SERVICE GUY IS A LIZARD!!!!!


AND THE EARTH IS FLAT!!!
smile.gif: heheheheheh

[b]


Thanks for digging up these - they are examples of random youtube videos that don't prove anything. You can start with any random thesis and find "evidence" to back it up on the Internet.

So the best way to navigate through the massive brickwall of propaganda is probably to start by studying late modern history and then use news sources that color the info as little as possible.


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Spock
post Jun 20 2016, 10:52 AM
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Even a child can tell the difference in videos like this and actual news footage - the same kind of footage that can be used in a court of law to convict someone.

As far as color - the color of the news footage videos I posted were red - blood red.

I even did a search for "Trump Supporters Mob Rally" as opposed to "anti-Trump supporters mob rally"

check out the results...

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 20 2016, 11:05 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 20 2016, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 20 2016, 11:52 AM) *
Even a child can tell the difference in videos like this and actual news footage


Please let me know if I understand you correctly -

You're saying these videos are so obvioulsy not real, even a child could tell the difference. So what a about a better one - where adults would have problems telling. Would it be problematic to base a political ideology on such videos?


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Spock
post Jun 20 2016, 02:18 PM
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No - I don't place my personal political ideology on the videos of rampant mobs attacking Trump supporters and tearing shit up at rallies. My political position is a hybrid of conservative and liberal so if I had to label myself I would say I'm and independent or maybe a libertarian.

I am what could be considered liberal on some domestic issues and conservative on foreign policy - although I think U.S. foreign policy has been completely screwed up since Reagan's term.

What I meant about the differences in the videos is that the first one is obviously an artifact from video compression - it happens all the time. But for the sake of argument, let's just pretend the secret service agent did shape shift on live television - would that necessarily classify him as an alien? Could he not be a ghost? Maybe one of our dark ancient reptilian overlords that live deep within the earth - even if the earth was flat. There would be no court of law that could single this man out and present evidence to a jury that this man was indeed an alien.

As for the other video - it's an op-ed piece. It's a man trying to convince another man and the viewing audience of his position. I can imagine it would be considered biased if I had posted opinion pieces from someone like Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh. So these videos could be categorized in the same light.

What I posted was real video footage of the rampage, bullying and attacks perpetrated by anti-Trump supporters en masse. These are not opinion pieces or video compression artifacts.

I would not use a broad brush and paint all people that would vote democrat in this election in such light, for instance I would never see anyone of my friends or family members which are affiliated with the democrats and hate Trump acting in such a way. What I am pointing out is the thuggish behavior from anti-Trump supporters to Trump supporters which has been chronic at Trump rallies.

For the video Todd posted of that stupid wench calling out those kids with obscenities, that is a fair video to post as rebuttal, so is the video of that moron Trump supporter kid that sucker punched that guy. But they don't represent the enigma that has happened when you pool all the instances together. Sure there are hooligans supporting both - but I don't think anyone has ever felt threatened going to a Sanders or a Clinton rally, where around here people are afraid to put Trump signs in their yards and have to walk through mobs screaming and spitting at them to enter a Trump rally.

The funny thing about it is that even though Trump won our state overwhelmingly, people still don't want to advertise the support him out of fear of retaliation from idiots.

The silent majority is making a major stand in this election. We are sick of our corrupt government and Hillary has been at the center of the corruption for the past 20 years.

Does that clarify my position?

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 20 2016, 02:29 PM
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AK Rich
post Jun 20 2016, 09:11 PM
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I don't how there can be any doubt to the validity of those youtube vids recorded at Trump rallies. It has been all over the news and major news outlets are using the vids as well as their own footage and first hand accounts from reporters on the scene.
Like it or not the videos accurately show what has happened here and is likely to continue to happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/violence-br...ory?id=39576437

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-l...0428-story.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/politics/don...lice/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning...querque-police/

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-elect...r-rally-n585096

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/ju...sanders-clinton

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/us/polit...otest.html?_r=0

And this article popped up just today. Apparently an admitted assignation attempt on Trump.
Here is some text from the article.

"Sandford told officers he had been planning an assassination for about a year and was convinced he would die in the attempt. He said he also reserved a ticket for a Trump rally in Phoenix, scheduled for later in the day, as a backup."

"He told authorities that he went to the Battlefield Vegas shooting range the day before the rally and fired 20 rounds from a 9mm Glock pistol to learn how to use it. Police detectives who visited the range spoke with an employee who confirmed that he provided Sandford shooting lessons, according to the complaint."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_...-06-20-16-01-59

http://thesmokinggun.com/file/trump-kill-bid (5 page source document)

http://thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/m...ll-trump-759302

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jstcrsn
post Jun 21 2016, 01:08 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 20 2016, 01:49 PM) *
Please let me know if I understand you correctly -

You're saying these videos are so obvioulsy not real, even a child could tell the difference. So what a about a better one - where adults would have problems telling. Would it be problematic to base a political ideology on such videos?

I don't understand , guy swings bag - hits trump attendee in the ear - said ear bleeds . How is this fake Kris
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 21 2016, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 20 2016, 03:18 PM) *
The silent majority is making a major stand in this election. We are sick of our corrupt government and Hillary has been at the center of the corruption for the past 20 years.

Does that clarify my position?


Yes I feel with you - even today's democracies are corrupt in so many ways. I certainly understand the situation is frustrating and you want to make a change.

But please bare in mind that the videos you share with us have no statistical value at al! They showcase a bunch of assholes, and believe me the assholes are EVERYWHERE - in all cultures and religions.

Also please remember that when something sounds too good to be true, it almost always is! If you are promised a quick fix for a very complex problem, you are most likely getting scammed!

As mentioned, I think the best way to truly tell what is right and wrong - is to study modern history. As many of the mistakes we do today have already been done in the past.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 21 2016, 02:08 AM) *
I don't understand , guy swings bag - hits trump attendee in the ear - said ear bleeds . How is this fake Kris


See my reply above. I do not (necessarily) question the truthfulness of the videos. I question how relevant it is to post them in abundance for our discussions, as they offer absolutely no statistical value.


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Spock
post Jun 21 2016, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 21 2016, 06:57 AM) *
See my reply above. I do not (necessarily) question the truthfulness of the videos. I question how relevant it is to post them in abundance for our discussions, as they offer absolutely no statistical value.



So you are asking for statistics of mob violence at Trump rallies vs. Clinton and Sanders rallies before you would accept this is a real phenomena?

As far as Trump - he may not be an ideal candidate, but compared to Clinton and Sanders, which would equate to status quo or socialism - there is no better choice. A spiraling trend of Bernie Sanders type presidents would have our country looking like Venezuela.

As I said earlier, I am not a fan of Trump's tax proposal - but when you look at the numbers his tax plan actually puts more money in the hands of the people than Clinton's does.







And sure - there are idiots in all ideologies - however with the influx of Islam that is the largest threat to western civilization. Islam is not just a religion, it is a political ideology with its own laws.

So I stand 1000% behind Trump on immigration policies and it genuinely baffles me how anyone can not.


Source

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 21 2016, 01:47 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 21 2016, 11:38 PM
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That was exactly my point in sharing these smile.gif They are wads of fun though!

Finding good news sources can be really hard depending on ones point of view. Generally speaking, I'd say go with folks that have a long track record, and that have won some Peabody awards. It's ok to take in sources that drift right and left, but it's got to be taken with a grain of salt IMHO. E.G. MSNBC drifts left, Fox drifts right, so both of these are sources that can be a bit tricky

I"d say BBC, Pew Research, and CBO (the congressional budget office. It's a non partisan research group that does analysis for congress), are all good places to start for general research on many topics. smile.gif But then again, that's just me. Folks can and do use pretty much whatever they like. Which is fine too smile.gif Takes all kinds as they say.

You are spot on as far as history study goes. There are patterns that keep repeating in history. So studying history is a good way to see what's coming up in the future smile.gif

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 20 2016, 03:42 AM) *
Thanks for digging up these - they are examples of random youtube videos that don't prove anything. You can start with any random thesis and find "evidence" to back it up on the Internet.

So the best way to navigate through the massive brickwall of propaganda is probably to start by studying late modern history and then use news sources that color the info as little as possible.


Egad! The issue of "Source" comes up to me on these. The source is IBT. IBT just bought NEWSWEEK. Who is IBT? Here is an article in (rightish leaning) FORTUNE.com about the connection between IBT and a Korean Cult leader who claims to be the second coming of Christ. That's all fine and dandy of course smile.gif But I'd say look to pew research or one of the other sources I mentioned to get stats. They are just a bit more reliable and a bit less associated with messianic cults . sad.gif

http://observer.com/2013/08/moonies-messia...-owns-newsweek/

Here is an article from politico.com (*disclaimer: politico is often accused of leaning a bit rightish/pro establishment) talking about the first and second tax plan from Trump. The first one is around 10 trillion in deficit, the second one (if we take out dramatic and dynamic estimations of economic growth) is around 7 trillion in deficit. These are the plans from him. Not from another candidate.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trum...evisions-223064

After posting here I just realized we are doing politics again. I"m off to my SHRED JOURNEY thread to critique some up and coming players! smile.gif

QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 21 2016, 08:45 AM) *
So you are asking for statistics of mob violence at Trump rallies vs. Clinton and Sanders rallies before you would accept th

And sure - there are idiots in all ideologies - however with the influx of Islam that is the largest threat to western civilization. Islam is not just a religion, it is a political ideology with its own laws.

So I stand 1000% behind Trump on immigration policies and it genuinely baffles me how anyone can not.


Source


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 21 2016, 11:51 PM


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Spock
post Jun 22 2016, 12:52 AM
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Actually I saw these broken down in a commentary.

What that does not take in account as far as the deficit is the "status quo" of Hillary's plan while neglecting the America First issues of Trump. So essentially, that would be the case if Trump's agenda only initiated his tax plan under Obama and Clinton's "status quo". Which would not be the case. However I can not locate the full explanation I heard regarding it.


Regardless - I'm still not a fan of his tax plan being for a flat/fair tax and sales tax while doing completely away with others. That would sort of take the sales out of paying illegals under the table because everything they purchased would go into the public fund.

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jstcrsn
post Jun 22 2016, 02:40 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 22 2016, 12:52 AM) *
Actually I saw these broken down in a commentary.

What that does not take in account as far as the deficit is the "status quo" of Hillary's plan while neglecting the America First issues of Trump. So essentially, that would be the case if Trump's agenda only initiated his tax plan under Obama and Clinton's "status quo". Which would not be the case. However I can not locate the full explanation I heard regarding it.


Regardless - I'm still not a fan of his tax plan being for a flat/fair tax and sales tax while doing completely away with others. That would sort of take the sales out of paying illegals under the table because everything they purchased would go into the public fund.

I don't have time right now , but I am all for http://fairtax.org/

Tod I encourage you to put aside your leaning and give this an honest look

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Todd Simpson
post Jun 22 2016, 03:20 AM
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So far I don't like either proposed plan sad.gif CRSN: If you want the fair tax plan, I'd suggest you get with Trump pretty quick as he doesn't look to be going down this road AT ALL. You may have to do some quick talking smile.gif

I'd point you to this link. From a non-partisan tax analysis site called the TAX POLICY CENTER. As you know, rich folks don't spend most of their income, statistically speaking, they save/invest most of it. This would preclude most of it from being taxed under this plan. Im for taxing the rich until they bleed. smile.gif The worst part, is that many folks against high taxes for the wealth are not wealthy or even close to wealthy. They hope to be wealthy some day, but that's mostly just wishful thinking. Point of fact is that social mobility has been on the decline for decades as wages have stagnated and the middle class has vanished. sad.gif So yeah, I'd say tax the living daylights out of anyone making above $250k. Then really go nuts over one million. This won't cure all ills. It will force the 1 percenters to pay a more fair share smile.gif Which is much better than getting them all in a room and letting the poor loose on them. In other words BASTILLE DAY. Which is where things are headed sadly.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/trouble-fairtax

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 21 2016, 09:40 PM) *
I don't have time right now , but I am all for http://fairtax.org/

Tod I encourage you to put aside your leaning and give this an honest look


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 22 2016, 03:29 AM


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