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HiimAlex
post Jun 24 2016, 06:36 PM
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Hey Everyone!

I am not totally satisfied with my tone so I need some ears to listen to it to receive feedback and improve it smile.gif
Here is a sample so you can listen.
soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improving-my-tone

The gear am I using is a Jackson Js22 with Seymour Duncans into a tubescreamer and then a DigiTech Gnx2.
On the DigiTech Gnx2 I use a Marshall amp blended with a clean amp. I use Reverb, Analog Delay 90Ms, Noise Gate and Compression.

Thanks
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Mertay
post Jun 24 2016, 07:12 PM
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First thing I noticed was I didn't hear the reverb+delay until you started playing sustained notes. It was very "bathroom-like", for soloing disable the reverb or delay (using both can get messy easily) and work on any you like to get more depth.

There is a harshness on the distortion that I suspect the tubescreamer might be clipping the GNX2, try decreasing the output a little bit.


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Phil66
post Jun 24 2016, 08:25 PM
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Maybe post your take HERE wink.gif

Mertay is great and very good with tone but you will get some extra advice from more people there and no doubt Mertay will get in on it too smile.gif



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HiimAlex
post Jun 25 2016, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 24 2016, 06:12 PM) *
First thing I noticed was I didn't hear the reverb+delay until you started playing sustained notes. It was very "bathroom-like", for soloing disable the reverb or delay (using both can get messy easily) and work on any you like to get more depth.

There is a harshness on the distortion that I suspect the tubescreamer might be clipping the GNX2, try decreasing the output a little bit.

Thanks for the suggestions, I lowered the volume on the tubescreamer so it is about 2 o'clock now. I also turned off the reverb and changed the delay to 250ms smile.gif
Here is a new recording so you can hear the changes I made.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-sound-2

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 24 2016, 07:25 PM) *
Maybe post your take HERE wink.gif

Mertay is great and very good with tone but you will get some extra advice from more people there and no doubt Mertay will get in on it too smile.gif

Thanks Phil! smile.gif I will post my take there in case I don't get enough feedback here but it seems as that workshop as ended. wink.gif
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Mertay
post Jun 25 2016, 05:07 PM
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Cool, the harshnaess is gone smile.gif now decreasing the amounth of delay (probably dry-wet parameter as I'm not familiar with the gnx) would give it a better depth-like feel to the sound and will keep the tone clear when recording over backing-tracks. The other parameter you can try after decreasing wet/dry is increasing the feedback of the delay to further give it a further depth-like fell but I'd expect only decreasing wet/dry would work good enough.

As for the amp tone, to me it sounds small combo-like while I guess you'd like a bigger sound? asking cause for certain stuff that tone can also be cool too. Could you remove that blended clean amp and only record with the marshall?

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 24 2016, 07:25 PM) *
Mertay is great and very good with tone but you will get some extra advice from more people there and no doubt Mertay will get in on it too smile.gif


Thanks for the kind words smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jun 25 2016, 05:09 PM


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Phil66
post Jun 25 2016, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 25 2016, 02:56 PM) *
Thanks Phil! smile.gif I will post my take there in case I don't get enough feedback here but it seems as that workshop as ended. wink.gif


I don't think it actually ended mate, it just stopped getting posts, I'm pretty sure you will get advice once you post because it will be put back to the top of the list in the forum wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 25 2016, 09:09 PM
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The harsh bits have gone but I think you may be "under gained" for solo work by just a pinch. Try increasing the drive parameter on the tube screamer. As for the delay, you can just turn down the percentage (which is the last parameter I think) that defines how much of the signal comes from the delay. If you do use reverb and delay, you have to make sure it's not "too wet" in terms of fx. You can start with any reverb you like and then turn the output of the reverb to zero then turn it up til you just barely hear it.

Also, which guitar cab are you using? And have you morphed anything yet smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 25 2016, 09:56 AM) *
Thanks for the suggestions, I lowered the volume on the tubescreamer so it is about 2 o'clock now. I also turned off the reverb and changed the delay to 250ms smile.gif
Here is a new recording so you can hear the changes I made.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-sound-2


Thanks Phil! smile.gif I will post my take there in case I don't get enough feedback here but it seems as that workshop as ended. wink.gif


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HiimAlex
post Jun 25 2016, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 25 2016, 04:07 PM) *
Cool, the harshnaess is gone smile.gif now decreasing the amounth of delay (probably dry-wet parameter as I'm not familiar with the gnx) would give it a better depth-like feel to the sound and will keep the tone clear when recording over backing-tracks. The other parameter you can try after decreasing wet/dry is increasing the feedback of the delay to further give it a further depth-like fell but I'd expect only decreasing wet/dry would work good enough.

As for the amp tone, to me it sounds small combo-like while I guess you'd like a bigger sound? asking cause for certain stuff that tone can also be cool too. Could you remove that blended clean amp and only record with the marshall?



Thanks for the kind words smile.gif

I have decreased the amount of delay now so hopefully it should be good, I also increased the feedback just a little.
Here is a recording with only the marshall amp.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-tone-3


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 25 2016, 08:09 PM) *
The harsh bits have gone but I think you may be "under gained" for solo work by just a pinch. Try increasing the drive parameter on the tube screamer. As for the delay, you can just turn down the percentage (which is the last parameter I think) that defines how much of the signal comes from the delay. If you do use reverb and delay, you have to make sure it's not "too wet" in terms of fx. You can start with any reverb you like and then turn the output of the reverb to zero then turn it up til you just barely hear it.

Also, which guitar cab are you using? And have you morphed anything yet smile.gif

Todd


Thanks Todd for the suggestions, I turned the reverb off now and using only delay.
I am using Boutique 4x12 but I have not morphed anything yet smile.gif
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Mertay
post Jun 25 2016, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 25 2016, 08:29 PM) *
I have decreased the amount of delay now so hopefully it should be good, I also increased the feedback just a little.
Here is a recording with only the marshall amp.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-tone-3


Very good, improved quickly till now smile.gif finally, can the the gnx add eq right before or after the cab.? it could use a bit more bass or low mid.s to get the tone bigger. If not you can also open an eq from the DAW or simply use a bassyer/bigger sounding cab but keep in mind we're now at the "whatever works for you" area so its really up to you on what you like. The tone is definitly shreddy and you can also experiment cab.s or eq by recording on backing tracks.

The only main problem to me left is there is too much hiss while you play and I'm not sure whats causing that as it wasn't there before. Its not a noisegate fixable thing, maybe about the powering of the processor or tubescreamer?

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jun 25 2016, 10:05 PM


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HiimAlex
post Jun 26 2016, 03:47 PM
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Thanks for your help Mertay, I appreciate it smile.gif
I also think that the tone has improved a lot now and I getting happy with it. Yes there is a eq on the gnx, not sure if it is before or after the cab but I will tweak it a bit and also try a couple of other cabs as well.

What do you mean by "too much hiss"?
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Mertay
post Jun 26 2016, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 26 2016, 02:47 PM) *
Thanks for your help Mertay, I appreciate it smile.gif
I also think that the tone has improved a lot now and I getting happy with it. Yes there is a eq on the gnx, not sure if it is before or after the cab but I will tweak it a bit and also try a couple of other cabs as well.

What do you mean by "too much hiss"?


You know, the background hiss noise.

Normally it shouldn't be noticed when playing guitar as the moment you stop playing the noisegate kicks in and that prevents it from being heard. But I hear it while you're soloing at the latest example which isn't normal, thats why I suspect a bad cable or electricity imbalances (can happen late at night as voltage can go up and down).


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HiimAlex
post Jun 26 2016, 08:25 PM
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Aha okay.
Well I have had my $15 cable for a couple of years now so maybe it is time to buy a new cable but I can record another example tomorrow during the day to see what is the problem.
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Mertay
post Jun 26 2016, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 26 2016, 07:25 PM) *
Aha okay.
Well I have had my $15 cable for a couple of years now so maybe it is time to buy a new cable but I can record another example tomorrow during the day to see what is the problem.


That would be great, keep in mind the reason can be a number of things. You can also disconnect the pedal and gnx to experiment which one is adding the sound.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 27 2016, 12:00 AM
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You may not even hear the hiss in the background, depending on what you are listening with. Speaking which, what are you listening with? Monitors? Headphones? What brands/models?

There is a spiff noise gate on the GNX which is good at stopping noise when you are not playing. However, during play, excess noise can be caused by many things. Swapping out a cable is a quick way to see if it's a bad cable. Also, too much treble in your EQ can do it.

Just to make sure we are using the same terminology and such, here is a link to the user manual for the GNX2.

http://rdn.harmanpro.com/product_documents...al_original.pdf

QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 26 2016, 03:25 PM) *
Aha okay.
Well I have had my $15 cable for a couple of years now so maybe it is time to buy a new cable but I can record another example tomorrow during the day to see what is the problem.


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HiimAlex
post Jun 27 2016, 10:40 AM
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Here is a new take without the pedal and just the gnx.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-tone-4

Actually when I play with my amp and using my second cable it cause a lot of noise and on this recording I only used my first cable. On previous recording I have used both my second and first cable to I could connect the tubescreamer in front.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 26 2016, 11:00 PM) *
You may not even hear the hiss in the background, depending on what you are listening with. Speaking which, what are you listening with? Monitors? Headphones? What brands/models?

There is a spiff noise gate on the GNX which is good at stopping noise when you are not playing. However, during play, excess noise can be caused by many things. Swapping out a cable is a quick way to see if it's a bad cable. Also, too much treble in your EQ can do it.

Just to make sure we are using the same terminology and such, here is a link to the user manual for the GNX2.

http://rdn.harmanpro.com/product_documents...al_original.pdf


I was able to hear a hiss in the background when I used my tubescreamer in front. However during this recording I was not able to hear any hiss. I am listening with Beats Solo 2 headphones.
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Mertay
post Jun 27 2016, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 27 2016, 09:40 AM) *
Here is a new take without the pedal and just the gnx.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-tone-4

Actually when I play with my amp and using my second cable it cause a lot of noise and on this recording I only used my first cable. On previous recording I have used both my second and first cable to I could connect the tubescreamer in front.


Cool so we're certain its a cable issue, keep in mind you don't have to use very expensive cables unless they're long so just buy whatever you can easily afford. Also always keep an eye on the input levels of the soundcard, I think I heard a few digital clipping sounds.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 28 2016, 03:52 AM
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Those headphones are really good for listening to MP3 music from your ipod, but not really ideal for listening back for recording or what we call "Critical Listening". They have a huge EQ scoop in them so you don't really hear what is happening. You hear a very scooped out version of what is going on. I'd suggest getting a good pair of studio type cans (phones) like the AKG in this link. They are about $70 U.S.

http://www.akg.com/pro/p/k240studio

A good compromise on price vs quality. You can get way more pricey, but I'd say this is a good starter pair of cans for recording. Eventually, you will benefit from some studio monitors but for now, just a good pair of phones would help a lot. Ideally, you want your headphones to be fairly "flat" in their response. Not boomy/tweety, like most cans designed for listening to ipods. LIke the beats sad.gif That way you can get a bit better idea of what is being recorded and what is being shared, etc. Make sense?

P.S. You GNX2 does have the SCREAMER pedal built in doesn't it? Or am I thinking of the GNX3? It sounds like you may need a bit more push on your amp. CHeck the gain settings and maybe push it a bit. I like the GREEDBACK cab quite a bit, and the compressor with the makeup gain will help push the drive on the amp sim as well.

Bit by bit!
Todd




QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 27 2016, 05:40 AM) *
Here is a new take without the pedal and just the gnx.
https://soundcloud.com/alex-arvedahl/improve-my-tone-4

Actually when I play with my amp and using my second cable it cause a lot of noise and on this recording I only used my first cable. On previous recording I have used both my second and first cable to I could connect the tubescreamer in front.



I was able to hear a hiss in the background when I used my tubescreamer in front. However during this recording I was not able to hear any hiss. I am listening with Beats Solo 2 headphones.



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HiimAlex
post Jun 28 2016, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 27 2016, 05:39 PM) *
Cool so we're certain its a cable issue, keep in mind you don't have to use very expensive cables unless they're long so just buy whatever you can easily afford. Also always keep an eye on the input levels of the soundcard, I think I heard a few digital clipping sounds.

Thanks for your help Mertay, I will lower the input level a bit. I am satisfied with my tone now.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 28 2016, 02:52 AM) *
Those headphones are really good for listening to MP3 music from your ipod, but not really ideal for listening back for recording or what we call "Critical Listening". They have a huge EQ scoop in them so you don't really hear what is happening. You hear a very scooped out version of what is going on. I'd suggest getting a good pair of studio type cans (phones) like the AKG in this link. They are about $70 U.S.

http://www.akg.com/pro/p/k240studio

A good compromise on price vs quality. You can get way more pricey, but I'd say this is a good starter pair of cans for recording. Eventually, you will benefit from some studio monitors but for now, just a good pair of phones would help a lot. Ideally, you want your headphones to be fairly "flat" in their response. Not boomy/tweety, like most cans designed for listening to ipods. LIke the beats sad.gif That way you can get a bit better idea of what is being recorded and what is being shared, etc. Make sense?

P.S. You GNX2 does have the SCREAMER pedal built in doesn't it? Or am I thinking of the GNX3? It sounds like you may need a bit more push on your amp. CHeck the gain settings and maybe push it a bit. I like the GREEDBACK cab quite a bit, and the compressor with the makeup gain will help push the drive on the amp sim as well.

Bit by bit!
Todd

It definitely makes sense Todd, I will see if I can afford those when I get my paycheck.They seem very solid, and also like I will benefit from those in the future as well.

Yes you are totally right, there is a SCREAMER in GNX2. I will try the GREENBACK cab also and see what I think about it.
Thanks for your help Todd, I think my tone has improved a lot now and I am satisfied with it.
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 28 2016, 09:39 PM
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Happy to help smile.gif The forum is a great place to get killer feedback and help on nearly every aspect of your musical journey. Very glad you are diggging your tone more smile.gif I really love the GNX series btw, just in case anybody else is curious I still suggest the gnx2,3 and 4 as very low cost alternatives to newere multi fx/amp sim pedals/racks. For the price of a stomp box, you get a world of amps/tones/options.

I still have my GNX3 and still use it smile.gif I like it's tones better than my line 6 HD pod which is far newer and far more costly. The gnx series really got it right imho, much more so than later digitech products which I've not been a fan of. I've tried all of them, and none seem to have the same tonal ability as the gnx series.

So for anyone else looking for a new stomp, I'd say add a gnx2 or gnx3. It's got every stomp you could need inluding smart harmonizer/gate/chorus/overdrive/delay/pitch shift/amp sim/cab sim/etc. And since they are older units, you can grab one for about $100 or under. The cost of one decent pedal.

Here is the TONE KING from back in 2009 with his gnx3.



Todd


QUOTE (HiimAlex @ Jun 28 2016, 05:45 AM) *
Thanks for your help Mertay, I will lower the input level a bit. I am satisfied with my tone now.


It definitely makes sense Todd, I will see if I can afford those when I get my paycheck.They seem very solid, and also like I will benefit from those in the future as well.

Yes you are totally right, there is a SCREAMER in GNX2. I will try the GREENBACK cab also and see what I think about it.
Thanks for your help Todd, I think my tone has improved a lot now and I am satisfied with it.


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