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Mertay
post Jun 26 2016, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 26 2016, 06:21 PM) *
...but keep it objective without any personal attacks on GMC members.


+1

Also we need to watch more cartoons before we continue biggrin.gif

http://watchcartoonsonline.eu/watch/south-...e8-douche-turd/


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 27 2016, 12:34 AM
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And here I go again. smile.gif This is a link to an article about the STATISTICS of who voted for what in the BREXIT. The demographics of the vote are now a matter of public record. For the record, the vote was split among more educated vs less educated. Not casting aspersions, not calling names, just sharing the stats of the vote here.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/a...n-union/488780/

Here is the chart of the vote demography.
Attached Image

So, just looking at the numbers, not calling anybody anything, it does seem apparent the the vote to leave was stronger among areas with less university degrees per capita. There are other correlations as well, such as age (old vs young) but they are not as tight as the education gap.

It seems that folks who feel left out or put out by increased globalization, (shown in the chart by those a bit older, bit less well off, bit less education in general) voted leave in greater number, simple as that.

We face much the same problem here in the states. We have millions of folks who have been displaced by globalism and technology. Folks who have not been adequately employed since 2008 if at all. And they are angry. The demography of the leave vote, is very similar to the demography of the current republican vote here. Again, not to disparage. Not calling names. Not putting down. Just making a correlation based on stats. That's it. No reason to become grumpy at all here smile.gif Let's all try to discuss whatever topic in a calm and friendly manner as possible eh? Here is another bit from the Atlantic Magazine with a breakdown of statistics on likely Trump voters.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archiv...-really/471714/

Here is the big takeaway.

The Hamilton Project has found that the full-time, full-year employment rate of men without a bachelor's degree fell from 76 percent in 1990 to 68 percent in 2013

It's this one stat that has caused so much pain in the American electorate. More than many other factors IMHO. A HUGE chunk of working men, have not worked or worked/been paid adequately since well before the crash. It's caused a massive wound that has not healed, and may never.


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 26 2016, 03:23 PM) *
I did not think what I said was anywhere close to as personal attack as the other ( dripping with sarcasm = yes ) . Truth is not an attack, he is liberal in his views (and there is nothing wrong with that), but to call trump or brexit supporters uneducated ( and dumber than a brick wall as in other threads ) is very arrogant, not knowing anyone's background and yet still able to verbalize someone's intelligence based on preconceived ideas or arguable statistics sounds like more of an attack to me. That being said I will be careful to not get personal .
But

Lets face facts :We are on opposites sides of most issues and from the poles , it is pretty much 50/50 ,so as to let someone call possibly 50 percent of your paying customers stupid an uneducated ( read his post , he called people , not their ideas = thats personal ) and you let them do that , you are putting your business at risk.

I know and do not even try to attempt to try to persuade you and other die hards as I know it is futile . I am concerned much more for the ones that get bombarded with agenda driven media telling them lies ( google Clinton lies , Brian Williams , Dan rather ). I just want people to see other ideas so they can see for themselves as I believe when given the truth , People will make the right call. This is evident in the brexit vote and trump supporters finally figuring out and getting tired of your side of the argument telling them what they should think.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 27 2016, 06:42 AM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 27 2016, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 27 2016, 12:34 AM) *
And here I go again. smile.gif This is a link to an article about the STATISTICS of who voted for what in the BREXIT. The demographics of the vote are now a matter of public record. For the record, the vote was split among more educated vs less educated. Not casting aspersions, not calling names, just sharing the stats of the vote here.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/a...n-union/488780/

Here is the chart of the vote demography.
Attached Image

So, just looking at the numbers, not calling anybody anything, it does seem apparent the the vote to leave was stronger among areas with less university degrees per capita. There are other correlations as well, such as age (old vs young) but they are not as tight as the education gap.

It seems that folks who feel left out or put out by increased globalization, (shown in the chart by those a bit older, bit less well off, bit less education in general) voted leave in greater number, simple as that.

We face much the same problem here in the states. We have millions of folks who have been displaced by globalism and technology. Folks who have not been adequately employed since 2008 if at all. And they are angry. The demography of the leave vote, is very similar to the demography of the current republican vote here. Again, not to disparage. Not calling names. Not putting down. Just making a correlation based on stats. That's it. No reason to become grumpy at all here smile.gif Let's all try to discuss whatever topic in a calm and friendly manner as possible eh? Here is another bit from the Atlantic Magazine with a breakdown of statistics on likely Trump voters.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archiv...-really/471714/

Here is the big takeaway.

The Hamilton Project has found that the full-time, full-year employment rate of men without a bachelor's degree fell from 76 percent in 1990 to 68 percent in 2013

It's this one stat that has caused so much pain in the American electorate. More than many other factors IMHO. A HUGE chunk of working men, have not worked or worked/been paid adequately since the crash. It's caused a massive wound that has not healed, and may never.

so what is your point, you find a graph ( being right or wrong does not matter ) and it is okay to refer half of GMC dumber than a brick wall.

I never argued his stats , I was ashamed at how he attacked those with a different opinion, but we could find stats on how left leaning professors are too

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 27 2016, 01:50 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 27 2016, 06:53 AM
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Let me be clear here smile.gif

I"M NOT REFERRING TO HALF OF GMC AS BEING ANYTHING AT ALL.

My post was not directed at GMC people, or anyone in particular. My point, was simply that there are statistical correlations in effect in the U.K. and in the U.S. that stem from a broad swath of people being simply left out or feeling left out of an increasingly globalized economy. The pain is real. The job losses are real, the wage stagnation is real, and all of this tends to push that chunk of any given electorate in very specific ways. That's it smile.gif

Not pitching right or wrong, just pointing out some stats and data. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, not calling anybody anything, not referring to anyone as dumb (never mentioned the word dumb at all actually, much less said anything about bricks and or walls), don't know how you came to that conclusion, but no. sad.gif

I"m just hoping we can all have a given chat about any topic, and still be objective about it and not lash out at each other. (not accusing you, or anyone, just stating what I HOPE we can strive for)

I think we can all be enriched and hopefully entertained by a good discussion on nearly any topic, if we can just find a way to respectfully agree to disagree, it would be a very good start smile.gif

You have every right to your thoughts on any given matter, as does everyone here. smile.gif If nothing else, that's really the point, of everything. We can all have thoughts and they can differ and we can still talk about them without taking it personally, I'd hope. (Again not saying you or anyone has or will taken something or anything personally, just stating my HOPE).

That's really all smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 26 2016, 08:48 PM) *
so what is your point, you find a graph ( being right or wrong does not matter ) and it is okay to refer half of GMC dumber than a brick wall.

I never argued his stats , I was ashamed at how he attacked those with a different opinion, but we could find stats on how left leaning professors are too


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PosterBoy
post Jun 27 2016, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 25 2016, 11:38 PM) *
The special relationship was established during WWI. Prior to that, no, if anything the US viewed them as adversaries.

Religious freedom was not an issue in the revolution.

And don't kid yourself, into the future, when it comes down to England or Europe, the US will chose Europe. This is not a world today where you "go it alone". This vote was totally stupid, they have screwed themselves. Yeah Norway can do this, go it alone, but Norway has incredible mineral wealth, natural resources. They are wealthy by default. And the Swiss are the Swiss. But England? Nobody really needs them anymore, and nobody in the world of tomorrow is going to get by without partners.

I expect that Scotland and N Ireland will bolt, they will have no choice, they will have to let the English commit economic suicide all on their lonesome. I feel sorry for the English that had some sense. This was a terrible thing to happen to them, their future is now totally screwed, they should try to immigrate if possible. It is noteworthy that just like in the US with Trump supporters, the regions most supporting brexit were those with the least educated populations. Which explains the "this is so stupid I can't imagine it happening" factor.


Northern Ireland won't suddenly choose to leave the UK because of this, too small to go it by themselves, and a united Ireland well that's just 100 years of troubled history to get into.


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wrk
post Jun 27 2016, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 26 2016, 08:23 PM) *
I did not think what I said was anywhere close to as personal attack as the other ( dripping with sarcasm = yes ) . Truth is not an attack, he is liberal in his views (and there is nothing wrong with that), but to call trump or brexit supporters uneducated ( and dumber than a brick wall as in other threads ) is very arrogant, not knowing anyone's background and yet still able to verbalize someone's intelligence based on preconceived ideas or arguable statistics sounds like more of an attack to me. That being said I will be careful to not get personal .
But

Lets face facts :We are on opposites sides of most issues and from the poles , it is pretty much 50/50 ,so as to let someone call possibly 50 percent of your paying customers stupid an uneducated ( read his post , he called people , not their ideas = thats personal ) and you let them do that , you are putting your business at risk.

I know and do not even try to attempt to try to persuade you and other die hards as I know it is futile . I am concerned much more for the ones that get bombarded with agenda driven media telling them lies ( google Clinton lies , Brian Williams , Dan rather ). I just want people to see other ideas so they can see for themselves as I believe when given the truth , People will make the right call. This is evident in the brexit vote and trump supporters finally figuring out and getting tired of your side of the argument telling them what they should think.


Man, your storyline of arguments is all over the place. Don’t know how you managed to do the link of a mathematically wrong interpretated 50/50 result in the “Trump/Clinton Fascist or not” polls and the Stay/Leave referendum in the UK .. and even further to transfer any kind of conclusion to the opinion of mostly inactive GMC members in these topics. To see any representative value in the result of a pool with only 7 and 3 votes is quite a trip actually wink.gif

You might overthink your strategy in your mission of "I just want people to see other ideas ...".





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jstcrsn
post Jun 27 2016, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jun 27 2016, 10:28 AM) *
Man, your storyline of arguments is all over the place. Don’t know how you managed to do the link of a mathematically wrong interpretated 50/50 result in the “Trump/Clinton Fascist or not” polls and the Stay/Leave referendum in the UK .. and even further to transfer any kind of conclusion to the opinion of mostly inactive GMC members in these topics. To see any representative value in the result of a pool with only 7 and 3 votes is quite a trip actually wink.gif

You might overthink your strategy in your mission of "I just want people to see other ideas ...".

was the brexit vote not 48.1 to 51.9 and those numbers are indicative of the last several presidential elections here in the U.S. , and look at all the other elections around the world , they are just as close . Of course I can't give you any data because my data is always deemed unfair and biased and as stated by others won't be " bothered " to look at .
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Spock
post Jun 27 2016, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jun 27 2016, 05:28 AM) *
Man, your storyline of arguments is all over the place. Don’t know how you managed to do the link of a mathematically wrong interpretated 50/50 result in the “Trump/Clinton Fascist or not” polls and the Stay/Leave referendum in the UK .. and even further to transfer any kind of conclusion to the opinion of mostly inactive GMC members in these topics. To see any representative value in the result of a pool with only 7 and 3 votes is quite a trip actually wink.gif

You might overthink your strategy in your mission of "I just want people to see other ideas ...".



I think it's very simple actually.

What jstcrsn is saying is accurate. And judging by the popularity of Trump and the British vote to exit the EU he stands on point. Granted I am not as "active" a member as some, but I've paid my dues since 2012 - so I'm a pretty active member (if that's what you're referring to).

The clash of ideas is simple. We have the progressive left on one side that believes government should be deciding factor in every facet of human existence. This is apparent by their backing the establishment whose entire push is total government control with less individual freedoms to the people - and if they can not see that then they re truly the one's blind to the 10,000 pound elephant in the room.

Then you have the Pro-Trump/Brexit crowd which sees governmental bureaucracies for what they are - and they stand against the establishment push for utter control and dominance. Better representative governments on smaller/local level is fine and globalization is our worse scenario.

It really just boils down to which side you stand for. Nationalism or Globalization. Globalization would be like world socialism rendering life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness unattainable and a memory. Nationalism would hope to guarantee these values.

It is no secret that NATO hates the constitution of the U.S. and the Bill of Rights and has had their puppets in the White House for 26 years now. Bush #1 introduced the idea of a NWO to us, Clinton implemented our role in it with NAFTA, Bush #2 instigated giving up rights for security and Obama has done everything in his power to demonize (or re-interpret) what our country's prime principles are founded upon as well as ramping up the security state and now trying to implement TPP .

And the agenda of the progressive left is open borders with promises of a new, better life to mass illegal immigrants via (amnesty) while sticking the middle finger in the eye of the indigenous culture and population - and by doing so hoping to strengthen their voting base to remain in power.

So - people are going to pick sides. And viciously go after opposing ideas.

Britain saw this and voted out. I salute them for it. Bitter Brits are doing everything possible to create another vote to overthrow the first, so if that happens, would it not be fair to do a 3rd vote to overthrow a change from the second? It would be like voting for a President until the one the establishment wants is in place.

Loudly with the Rise of Trump and Brexit - people have made their voices clear. They are anti-estblisment oligarchy and wish to pursue their freedoms without the eye of the government controlling every single fact of their existence.

And the most laughable argument in all this are people who demonize Trump and overlook or outright deny the long, documented path of corruption of Hillary and Bubba. Any allegation leveled at Trump University is nothing compared to the Clinton foundation.

Anyway - congratulations to the Brits for voting for freedom. The world has heard you and applaud you.

PS - JOHN SNOW TARGARYEN IS KING OF THE NORTH!!! smile.gif
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wrk
post Jun 27 2016, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 27 2016, 11:53 AM) *
I think it's very simple actually.

What jstcrsn is saying is accurate. And judging by the popularity of Trump and the British vote to exit the EU he stands on point. Granted I am not as "active" a member as some, but I've paid my dues since 2012 - so I'm a pretty active member (if that's what you're referring to).

Just to be clear, i was referring to forum posting activities of members, not payment ..



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Spock
post Jun 27 2016, 04:35 PM
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This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about...


Obama Administration and UN Announce Global Police Force to Fight ‘Extremism’ In U.S.

Question: And just who would be the one's to classify what is considered extreme? Progressives. Constitutionalists are already on that list.


QUOTE
On Wednesday, Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced at the United Nations that her office would be working in several American cities to form what she called the Strong Cities Network (SCN), a law enforcement initiative that would encompass the globe.

This amounts to nothing less than the overriding of American laws, up to and including the United States Constitution, in favor of United Nations laws that would henceforth be implemented in the United States itself – without any consultation of Congress at all.

The United Nations is a sharia-compliant world body, and Obama, speaking there just days ago, insisted that “violent extremism” is not exclusive to Islam (which it is). Obama is redefining jihad terror to include everyone but the jihadists. So will the UN, driven largely by the sharia-enforcing Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) and the pro-Islamic post-American President Obama, use a “global police force” to crush counter-jihad forces?

After all, with Obama knowingly aiding al-Qaeda forces in Syria, how likely is it that he will use his “global police force” against actual Islamic jihadists? I suspect that instead, this global police force will be used to impose the blasphemy laws under the sharia (Islamic law), and to silence all criticism of Islam for the President who proclaimed that “the future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

What is a global police force doing in our cities? This is exactly the abdication of American sovereignty that I warned about in my book, The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration’s War on America. The Obama Department of Justice made it clear that it was exactly that when it distributed a press release last week announcing the “Launch of Strong Cities Network to Strengthen Community Resilience Against Violent Extremism.” In that press release, the DoJ complained that “while many cities and local authorities are developing innovative responses to address this challenge, no systematic efforts are in place to share experiences, pool resources and build a community of cities to inspire local action on a global scale.”

So if the local and municipal effort to counter the euphemistic and disingenuous “violent extremism” is inadequate and hasn’t developed “systematic efforts are in place to share experiences, pool resources and build a community of cities to inspire local action on a global scale,” the feds – and the UN – have to step in. Thus the groundwork is being laid for federal and international interference down to the local level. “The Strong Cities Network,” Lynch declared, “will serve as a vital tool to strengthen capacity-building and improve collaboration” – i.e., local dependence on federal and international authorities.

Lynch made the global (that is, United Nations) involvement clear when she added: “As we continue to counter a range of domestic and global terror threats, this innovative platform will enable cities to learn from one another, to develop best practices and to build social cohesion and community resilience here at home and around the world.”

This internationalist character was brought to the fore by the fact that the Strong Cities Network was launched on September 29 not at the White House or the Department of Homeland Security, or at the FBI headquarters or anywhere else that might be fitting for a national project, but at the United Nations.

Even more ominously, the DoJ press release says that the Strong Cities Network “will strengthen strategic planning and practices to address violent extremism in all its forms by fostering collaboration among cities, municipalities and other sub-national authorities.” Sub-national and international: the press release then quotes Governing Mayor Stian Berger Røsland of Oslo, Norway, a participant in the Strong Cities Network, saying: “To counter violent extremism we need determined action at all levels of governance. To succeed, we must coordinate our efforts and cooperate across borders. The Strong Cities Network will enable cities across the globe pool our resources, knowledge and best practices together and thus leave us standing stronger in the fight against one of the greatest threats to modern society.”

But what is that greatest threat, exactly? Remember, the DoJ presser says that the SCN will “address violent extremism in all its forms.” It also says that it will aid initiatives that are working toward “building social cohesion and resilience to violent extremism.” “Building social cohesion” is a euphemism for keeping peace between non-Muslim and Muslim communities – mostly by making sure that non-Muslims don’t complain too loudly about, much less work against, rapidly expanding Muslim populations and the Islamization of their communities.

The DoJ presser noted that at the launch of the Strong Cities Network, “welcoming remarks” would be offered by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Prince Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein and Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City. The involvement of New York City’s Marxist internationalist mayor is yet another warning sign.

Assert American sovereignty and individual rights. Contact your representatives now. Exhort them to oppose SCN now. Exhort them to keep America free – while it still is
.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/20...tremism-in-u-s/

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jstcrsn
post Jun 27 2016, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 27 2016, 06:53 AM) *
Let me be clear here smile.gif

I"M NOT REFERRING TO HALF OF GMC AS BEING ANYTHING AT ALL.

My post was not directed at GMC people, or anyone in particular. My point, was simply that there are statistical correlations in effect in the U.K. and in the U.S. that stem from a broad swath of people being simply left out or feeling left out of an increasingly globalized economy. The pain is real. The job losses are real, the wage stagnation is real, and all of this tends to push that chunk of any given electorate in very specific ways. That's it smile.gif

Not pitching right or wrong, just pointing out some stats and data. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, not calling anybody anything, not referring to anyone as dumb (never mentioned the word dumb at all actually, much less said anything about bricks and or walls), don't know how you came to that conclusion, but no. sad.gif

I"m just hoping we can all have a given chat about any topic, and still be objective about it and not lash out at each other. (not accusing you, or anyone, just stating what I HOPE we can strive for)

I think we can all be enriched and hopefully entertained by a good discussion on nearly any topic, if we can just find a way to respectfully agree to disagree, it would be a very good start smile.gif

You have every right to your thoughts on any given matter, as does everyone here. smile.gif If nothing else, that's really the point, of everything. We can all have thoughts and they can differ and we can still talk about them without taking it personally, I'd hope. (Again not saying you or anyone has or will taken something or anything personally, just stating my HOPE).

That's really all smile.gif

Todd

to be sure Todd, you did not infer that, and the way you posted did not, and if how I responded to your post lead someone to believe Todd said it, I did not mean it that way. My thoughts were towards trying to get my point on my post , not realizing people might have thought I was Blaming you And After Reading your response , I see what i did , Please except my apologies Todd .

The way in which you posted the graph and the study going hand in hand was fine.the way it was brought up earlier was uneducated and stupid masses just screwed us all . Can you see how someone with a differing opinion would have understood it that way. I was simply trying to make the point with a possibly 50 percent ( even if it is only 40 percent ) felt like that , that can't be helpfull

the posts I was referring to ( to me ) seemed more of an attack when put in context with said posts overall tone. I did not want to bring up a post again as it is not necessary to what I was asking of Kris , and in no way did I feel the post merited any action or reason possibly to point the finger at someone
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 28 2016, 04:09 AM
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Feels like progress wink.gif

There really is a BIG division going on, not just in the UK (leading to brexit) but in all of Europe and in the U.S. as well IMHO. There have been those who have benefited from a sort of "Liberal Globalism" and there have been plenty who feel they have been seriously hurt/set back/screwed by it. The result has been a serious bifurcation of the electorate and the rise of nationalist parties all over the globe. A big part of it can be reduced to economic stress. What used to be the "middle class" has been stagnant in terms of wages for decades, while those at the top do better and better. (Not placing blame here on any person or party, just stating a trend that I see).

The result has been a very angry chunk of the electorate become entirely fed up with the "elites", "experts", etc. and relying more on their gut, and to a degree, fear of an even worse future, to make voting decisions. So as a result, we see a sharp rise in nationalist parties world wide. Also a rise in what is called "Protectionism". When folks can't find enough work to feed their kids, they get angry. Voting angry can be as dangerous as driving angry imho. But until the huge chunk of folks who have been left out of the "economic miracle" of globalization start to feel a bit more secure in terms of wages, jobs, their children's future, we are going to see this trend continue and expand.

We are starting to see reports of very bad things happening in Britain like slurs being painted on the polish center in London, immigrants being told to "get out" or being beaten up, etc. This isn't just for the sake of doing it IMHO. It's a symptom of a much bigger problem and a much deeper pool of frustration and anger than any of the "experts" want to see or admit even exists. Tapping in to this frustration, parties that had been considered "fringe" in europe, now have seats in the Govt or are running the Govt. We are starting to see this trend here in the states with the Trump movement IMHO, the "Strong Man" idea, popularized in pre world war II europe, has returned it seems, and made it's way across the pond and never really left Russia.

We may get the chance to see if these parties can "do any better" as they are moving in to power. I Hope they can do better, in places where they have influence, and bring back jobs, wages, self respect, dignity, etc. Until those things return, the attraction to anti liberal, anti globalist groups/ideas, will continue and indeed expand imho smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 27 2016, 12:55 PM) *
to be sure Todd, you did not infer that, and the way you posted did not, and if how I responded to your post lead someone to believe Todd said it, I did not mean it that way. My thoughts were towards trying to get my point on my post , not realizing people might have thought I was Blaming you And After Reading your response , I see what i did , Please except my apologies Todd .

The way in which you posted the graph and the study going hand in hand was fine.the way it was brought up earlier was uneducated and stupid masses just screwed us all . Can you see how someone with a differing opinion would have understood it that way. I was simply trying to make the point with a possibly 50 percent ( even if it is only 40 percent ) felt like that , that can't be helpfull

the posts I was referring to ( to me ) seemed more of an attack when put in context with said posts overall tone. I did not want to bring up a post again as it is not necessary to what I was asking of Kris , and in no way did I feel the post merited any action or reason possibly to point the finger at someone



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Spock
post Jun 28 2016, 11:49 AM
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jstcrsn
post Jun 28 2016, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 28 2016, 11:49 AM) *

What a kind way to say F U , hilarious
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Mertay
post Jun 28 2016, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 28 2016, 02:24 PM) *
What a kind way to say F U , hilarious


Was fun to watch smile.gif

But I keep thinking about was this Englands attitude that led their automotive industry to disappear. They thought their own market would be enough keep the companys (as Germen, USA made cars started to get much better) running at the time but they were very wrong, now all epic brands like Jaguar, Rolls etc. belongs to foreign companys.

I presume the negotiations (specially economic) between England and EU will be very nasty.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 28 2016, 08:55 PM
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Sadly I think you are spot on. Time will tell of course smile.gif The members of the EU council that I have heard talking about this have been pretty clear that they are almost forced to be tough on Britain now just to keep other countries from wanting to leave the union and sending the entire EU into chaos. sad.gif Also, the leave leadership seems to have no clear plan or direction at this point, other than, "We won, nanny nanny booboo stick your face in doodoo". Which isn't a policy framework. sad.gif

As I mentioned in my last post, the undercurrent of financial frustration and anger that let to this result, and which seems to be the root cause for much of the anti immigrant/euroskeptic position, is set to actually get worse at least in the short term. If things don't start to improve for the folks that voted "leave", and as the campaign promises made are already being "walked back" by the leadership, we have a real chance for serious backlash in Britain. It's not a good time to be an immigrant in Britain just now. I hope it doesn't turn out that it's a bad time to be British as well.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 28 2016, 03:08 PM) *
Was fun to watch smile.gif

But I keep thinking about was this Englands attitude that led their automotive industry to disappear. They thought their own market would be enough keep the companys (as Germen, USA made cars started to get much better) running at the time but they were very wrong, now all epic brands like Jaguar, Rolls etc. belongs to foreign companys.

I presume the negotiations (specially economic) between England and EU will be very nasty.


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jstcrsn
post Jun 28 2016, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 28 2016, 08:55 PM) *
"We won, nanny nanny booboo stick your face in doodoo". Which isn't a policy framework. sad.gif

seemed to work for Obama

















O come on , you know that was funny
You set me up like that , you know I will take the shot
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 28 2016, 09:31 PM
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And it's working for Trump!! smile.gif (right back atcha, but let's call it even and move on shall we?)
QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 28 2016, 04:28 PM) *
seemed to work for Obama

















O come on , you know that was funny
You set me up like that , you know I will take the shot


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fkalich
post Jun 28 2016, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 27 2016, 05:33 AM) *
was the brexit vote not 48.1 to 51.9 and those numbers are indicative of the last several presidential elections here in the U.S. , and look at all the other elections around the world , they are just as close . Of course I can't give you any data because my data is always deemed unfair and biased and as stated by others won't be " bothered " to look at .


What our forefathers did wisely, was put in checks and balances into our political system to prevent a radical vote like this, to protect the people from themselves. Hell, perhaps the recent Orlando incident may have been what put brexit over the top, the vote that could have gone the other way last month, next month, six months from now. It should never have been put up to popular vote like this. People can elect a president, but they can get rid of him in a few years. England is stuck with this now.

Also regarding the demographics, that the old tended to vote for brexit, the young to stay. the less educated tended more to vote for brexit, the better educated to stay.

That is not to insult anyone without a degree. Hell Bill Gates only was at MIT one year. Two of my best friends left college, one for a great business opportunity the other because he had to get married and needed to support a family. My best buddy at the dog park left college his last year, a really sharp guy. That is not a personal thing, not an individual thing. These are general indicators reflecting averages, but all the world is a bell curve.

I was listening to NPR (national public radio) this morning and they were interviewing students and teachers at a college, who were saying the same things, a ill informed public carried the day, and now their futures are quite screwed to an extent as a result, the opportunities they had, expect to have, are not swept away from them. It is really quite sad, I feel for them.

I also heard that British bonds have been downgraded, economic forecasts now have fallen. Don't ignore the money men, whether it is betting on sports teams or betting on an economy, they tend to be the ones closest to the mark.

Regarding anyone laying into me, I don't really mind, so long as nobody takes a swing at me, I believe is saying cool. I was not always this way, but with 6 dogs I had a choice, learn to say cool, or lose my mind. I think the same thing happens to parents with a lot of kids.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 28 2016, 10:14 PM
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Spock
post Jun 29 2016, 01:34 AM
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You're exactly right about an ill-informed public. Case in point Obama and now Hillary. The young liberal social justice warriors look up to socialist leaders more than our founding fathers.

If it's not apparent by now how absolutely corrupt to the core the Clintons are, that's a sure sign of a dumbed down public at the hands of liberal university professors, biased privately owned mainstream media and pop culture.

Most obnoxious liberals today know more about Justin Bieber than politics and the stripping of individual rights under the guise of globalization, forced multiculturalism, political correctness and security.

Plus - it's absolutely hilarious how the media is mixing the koolaide about Brexit because they can't stand the fact that through democracy, the populous voted out - and the pro-EU crowd is licking it off the floor.

As far as a college degree - I'd hire someone with 5 years experience any day over someone with a degree.

You guys are more than welcome to move to any socialist utopian country of your choosing. Bon Voyage! As far as the U.S. though...



This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 29 2016, 09:08 AM
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