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> Right Arm Aches
Mertay
post Jul 10 2016, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Serberuss @ Jul 10 2016, 05:24 PM) *
I'm not deliberately applying pressure to where my arm rests on the guitar but I just let it kind of sit there so I can certainly feel it resting on the guitar but I'm not pushing down or anything onto it.


As a side question what sort of seating do you use for playing guitar? Is a stool better or a chair with a good back support a better option? Do you like to keep your back straight or slouch a bit over the guitar when you play?


Keep in mind there are 3 points that we keep the position of the guitar, 1-our lap 2-left hand 3-right arm(where the body of the guitar is cut). To me the right arm is the most special cause it helps decreasing the left hands balancing of the guitar so we can play without thinking it and also relax the right arm so or wrist has all the control needed. Just saying, always some pressure is needed there (wether the weight of the arm is enough or not).

I use a smaller office chair that I removed the left arm rest. I kept the right as I use the mouse a lot, I sit on it slightly tilting my body to the left. I use it like a stool and slouch as minimal as possible, this is where the hight adjustability of the chain is cool as I lower it to keep my back staight but relaxed enough. Oh also both my guitars always have a strap on, it very loose when sitting though.


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Serberuss
post Jul 10 2016, 09:33 PM
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Kris - sorry to hear that happened but I'm glad you got through it. So you managed to get rid of it completely? Just out of curiosity what did you say to your chiropractor to begin with and what sort of treatment did they do on you?

Mertay - that's pretty much what I have but I'm getting a new chair soon because the one I use is pretty uncomfortable when I'm playing guitar, it gives me a pretty sore back after a while I find. I have a good chair but the arms are too long so I can't play guitar on it.


In your opinion do you think I should stop playing guitar completely until I get this looked at?
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jul 10 2016, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (Serberuss @ Jul 10 2016, 10:33 PM) *
In your opinion do you think I should stop playing guitar completely until I get this looked at?

Yes! Most people don't take the problem seriously the first time it happens - imo this is why the inuries can get so serious/permanent. I practiced my right hand only when I had the injury (which was really boring, nowadays I would probably work on composition/arrangement instead)


QUOTE (Serberuss @ Jul 10 2016, 10:33 PM) *
Kris - sorry to hear that happened but I'm glad you got through it. So you managed to get rid of it completely? Just out of curiosity what did you say to your chiropractor to begin with and what sort of treatment did they do on you?


I told him how long I had been playing (like 8 hours in a row) - and that's all he needed to hear.

The treatment was completely painless and fast - like a super weird type of massage. I think I visited him like 4-5 times. And when he told me he thought I would get well in aprox 2 weeks I though he was just scamming me..

Yes now I am symptom free - but I need to do regular weight lifting to keep the problems away.

I can still feel slight left arm stress - especially if I do stretchy shred stuff on a guitar with thicker neck. But nowadays I know to stop immediately.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 13 2016, 10:00 PM
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Your GP can refer you to a specialist or physical therapy is needed smile.gif You typically start with the GP then go to specialists from there. Hopefully smile.gif

I sit while practicing mostly. With my left foot on a classical foot stool. But a pile of books would work just as well. As long as it raises your left leg so that you can put your guitar in between your legs (classical position) and have the neck angled up a bit where it is comfy. Some players sit "side saddle" with the guitar on the right leg. This gave me severe carpal tunnel syndrome and I quit doing it. Some folks are fine with it. Personally, I prefer classical position smile.gif Far less stress on the wrist IMHO.

If you stop all "elbow picking" the issue should simply resolve itself. It sounds like you may have given yourself tennis elbow via rabid "tremolo picking" from the elbow instead of the wrist and fingers. It's quite common so don't feel bad. I picked that way myself as I'm primarily self taught and it just felt natural. I had to switch to something that felt less natural (picking from the wrist/fingers) in order to play for extended times without pain.

Here is a vid of Chris Broderick showing fine form sitting and using something to prop up his left leg ( He is also a trained classical player btw) while Gus G plays side saddle.




QUOTE (Serberuss @ Jul 10 2016, 01:24 PM) *
I'm not deliberately applying pressure to where my arm rests on the guitar but I just let it kind of sit there so I can certainly feel it resting on the guitar but I'm not pushing down or anything onto it.

Kris - how come you had to see a chiropractor? How did it help resolve your issue? I'm not at the point where my arm is painful or anything like that, in my day to day routine there is no pain. It's only when I play guitar can I start to feel tension building up at certain times, but I always stop before the pain comes and allow the arm to rest for about 10 seconds before I resume playing again.

Todd - very interesting videos do you know of any good stretches for the upper arm area? This is where my issue is mainly at the moment. I'll double check my picking technique but I'm fairly sure this is what I'm doing, I have been giving my picking arm extra attention lately so I should have noticed if it was being used.

My GP isn't clueless I would say but this seems like a bit of a specialist area where I wouldn't expect the average doctor to know what the issue was. I thought perhaps having a guitar instructor locally look at my technique as well might be an option.


As a side question what sort of seating do you use for playing guitar? Is a stool better or a chair with a good back support a better option? Do you like to keep your back straight or slouch a bit over the guitar when you play?



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Phil66
post Jul 18 2016, 08:45 PM
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To me, the right arm of Chris is much more naturally positioned, as it is when you wear a strap. I know the majority of players sit more like Gus when sitting but look at the angle of his right upper arm when he's playing, this puts un-natural stress on the tendons of the bicep and anterior deltoid. Also look where the mighty Rob Balducci has his guitar when sitting wink.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jul 19 2016, 08:35 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 19 2016, 05:27 AM
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Gus started teaching himself long before he ever took any lessons from what I've read. I was self taught as well for many years and used to sit just like him. I took classical guitar in college and started sitting in classical position. It helped my carpal tunnel syndrome and made playing far more comfy during long practice session. I can't sit side saddle for more than about an hour without pain in my wrist.

By contrast, CHRIS is a professionally trained classical Player, with a degree in Classical Guitar/Music from the University of Denver. He brings much of his classical train to guitar and it shows up in everything he does from the way he holds, sits, frets, etc. The "classical position" was developed some time ago to allow players to have better access to the fretboard and reduce arm fatigue. Playing classical takes some serious practice. So you'd better be semi comfy when practicing it smile.gif Same with electric IMHO.


Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 18 2016, 03:45 PM) *
To me, the right arm of Chris is much more naturally positioned, as it is when you wear a trap. I know the majority of players sit more like Gus when sitting but look at the angle of his right upper arm when he's playing, this puts un-natural stress on the tendons of the bicep and anterior deltoid. Also look where the mighty Rob Balducci has his guitar when sitting wink.gif


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Phil66
post Jul 19 2016, 08:43 AM
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Agreed, you look at anyone playing standing and their right arm angle is closer to that of Chris than that of Gus. That's why I advocate wearing a strap and sitting upright when playing seated. I don't always do it myself though biggrin.gif and sometimes when I'm improvising I end up hunched over the guitar like an orangutan laugh.gif My right arm is still comfy.
I think most people get away with sitting side saddle, note: I said "Get away with", if you have any issues or potential issues or any bio mechanical disadvantages in that area, it WILL eventually catch up with you.

Interesting topic. smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 20 2016, 10:51 PM
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I agree smile.gif Of course, once you get to a certain point in your playing you may now and then sit side saddle now and then with no detriment. But I have to agree with Phil66 that sitting this way for hours on end puts simply too much stress on the wrist, and for the new player, they find that the guitar feels entirely different when they try to stand and play.

Ideally, your guitar should hit your chest in "roughly" the same spot whether you are sitting or standing. That way you don't have to learn everything twice, once for sitting, once for standing. As you get more advanced, you can pull a Slash and drop your guitar to your knees when standing if you like, and it will be fine. But that is 10 years from the day you picked up the instrument. At which point you can also play behind your head or with your teeth. For the first bit, I'd say try to sit in Classical with the left foot elevated and the neck angled up, as a general "Rule" for most every learning student.

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 19 2016, 03:43 AM) *
Agreed, you look at anyone playing standing and their right arm angle is closer to that of Chris than that of Gus. That's why I advocate wearing a strap and sitting upright when playing seated. I don't always do it myself though biggrin.gif and sometimes when I'm improvising I end up hunched over the guitar like an orangutan laugh.gif My right arm is still comfy.
I think most people get away with sitting side saddle, note: I said "Get away with", if you have any issues or potential issues or any bio mechanical disadvantages in that area, it WILL eventually catch up with you.

Interesting topic. smile.gif


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Phil66
post Jul 21 2016, 08:40 AM
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Yeah, you can get a proper foot stool or just use a block of wood to raise your left leg.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 21 2016, 03:37 PM
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Even a stack of books will work smile.gif Anything really that you can stack and put your foot on. Elevate your left foot until your guitar neck is roughly at a 45 degree angle.

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 21 2016, 03:40 AM) *
Yeah, you can get a proper foot stool or just use a block of wood to raise your left leg.



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Darius Wave
post Jul 21 2016, 05:34 PM
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First of all great to have you back at GMC smile.gif It's also an honor you put your trust in us and ask for help at the forum first.

We've been many times speaking of hands ache and it seems like the best choice was always to go to doctor before doing anything else. For example "overheating" your hand while trying to "warm up", considering it's the "practise break" issue. It has been proved more than few times, that doctors did help both - some of our students and some of instructors.

If we consider it's not a medical problem and you feel the pain in some particular hand position, than it really may be the long term break from playing guitar. I'm not a doctor but sometimes it happens to me, to not use some particular hand shapes/fingering patterns that need stretch or particular strength management. I then feel some pain trying to execute those. What works for me is to choose a lick that makes the problem visible and play it with constant speed. I start very softly, than increase the strength until i start to feel pain but then I do not stop, I do keep playing but loosening the strength to a painless level. The idea is to keep hand working and remind her the idea of strength management which makes us play constantly and relaxed with no pain. It usually take few days but in the 3rd day for example I feel that the "pain spot" is no longer there - I can feel increased muscle tension but it's not causing any pain.

I hope this helps.


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Phil66
post Jul 21 2016, 08:36 PM
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Maybe these will also help. smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brPzQdBaSjg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ6pHKOrQbs



Some reading.

http://www.guitar-bass.net/workshop/guitar-fitness/

http://www.physiobob.com/forum/patient-cor...guitarists.html

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jul 21 2016, 08:36 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 22 2016, 06:56 PM
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GREAT POST!!!! This one screen grab shows the main idea. He describes it VERY well also and gives all the "WHY" answers for using this position. It will save you from causing injury to yourself, in short. Imagine a guitar strap on him. If he stood up, the guitar should remain right about where it is, ideally smile.gif

Attached Image








QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 21 2016, 03:36 PM) *


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