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> Recording Via Torpedo Reload
Roadside
post Jul 28 2016, 07:53 AM
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Hey hey,

actually I know there are lots of threads concerning audio recording. But since I have some specific needs and already a little equipment on site I would like to here your opinion.

A few years back I invested into a Shure SM57 and E-MU 0404 audio midi interface to directly record my amp sound. I was not too happy with the results, but this was due to my poor mastering / recording skills. But even worse, my neighbours hated me for crunching up my amp to get a proper sound.

Now, a good friend advised me to check out 2 Notes Torpedo Reload - http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-reload/

It combines a load box, re-amping unit as well as a power attenuator. So from what I understand a setup could look as follows:

Guitar -> Torpedo Reload -> AMP
-> cabinets / monitors
-> Audio Interface -> DAW

With this kind of setup I am able to record just via head phones but simulate a fully cranked up amp and it still provides the typical amp sound? As well as modify recorded samples properly in DAW softwares?

What is your opinion here? Is it worth investing 700 € for that tool? Most probably that would be all that i need to invest since I already have the E-MU as audio interface. I assume it could be used, couldn't it?

Are there any alternatives?

Thanks for any advise in advance. This stuff is new and quite confusing to me! wink.gif

Tim

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PosterBoy
post Jul 28 2016, 08:57 AM
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I think you'll find the Torpedo goes between the amp and the cab. It's replacing the speaker with an impulse response for recording, loading down the output of your amp so it doesn't damage it without a speaker connected, and attenuating the volume of the output of the amp so you can dime it and not have it upsetting your neighbour.

It will also allow you to record your amp without any IR and the feed the signal back into it so you can experiment with different IRs, I think.

This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Jul 28 2016, 09:00 AM


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yoncopin
post Jul 28 2016, 01:46 PM
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I think it would help to know what gear you already have available. I was eyeing the Two Notes stuff for a long time, thinking it was the only way to be able to enter the world of cabinet IRs with my existing hardware. Eventually I figured out how to do it without spending anything at all (see this post) A quick inventory of your amp, interface, di/reamp/preamp/whatever boxes you may have lying around would really help to figuring out a solution.


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Mertay
post Jul 28 2016, 06:53 PM
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Can't comment much on it but I would suggest demoing the wall of sound plug-in.

You'll notice there is a poweramp section on that plug-in, its there so you can do; guitar-amp input-fx output-soundcard. When using the fx loops output you disable the poweramp section from the sound so thats why they added poweramp emulation to that plug-in.

Also you get to demp their ir's as they use the same ir's on all their souft and hardware.


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Rammikin
post Jul 28 2016, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 28 2016, 06:53 AM) *
With this kind of setup I am able to record just via head phones but simulate a fully cranked up amp and it still provides the typical amp sound? As well as modify recorded samples properly in DAW softwares? Are there any alternatives?


Yes, but that's not really the purpose of using a Torpedo. You use a Torpedo when you're in the situation where you have an amp head that you want or must use for recording. You run the output of the amp head into the Torpedo, which emulates a cabinet, thus allowing you to record at low levels and without the hassle of micing a cabinet.

As an alternative: if you're not in the situation where you must use an amp head, you can use any of the many amp/cabinet emulators that are available, either as outboard units (Line 6 Helix, Amplifire, Kemper, AxeFX, etc.) or a plugin (Overloud, Amplitube, etc.).

Another alternative if you have a line output from your amp head: you can run that into your computer and use a cabinet emulator plugin instead of a Torpedo.


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Roadside
post Jul 28 2016, 07:33 PM
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Thanks a lot to all your input.

Gear wise as stated:

E-MU 0404 as audio interface
Shure SM 57 as mic
I' m playing on an orange combo box currently at home
some KRK monitors

That's it. So based on this equipment would it make sense to add the Torpedo reload? Torpedo comes with a software copy of Wall of Sound III smile.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 29 2016, 12:25 AM
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Sadly, NO would be my answer. If you are buying a $700 torpedo unit to record an orange combo, you are going a bit in to overkill IMHO. Have you thoughth about just using a decent guitar plugin instead? For example, GUITAR RIG, OVERLOUD TH3, REVALVER, etc? Most all of these have free demos you can try before you buy and they are all waaaay cheaper than a torpedo. The only real point of the torpedo is to record the tone from a really nice, expensive amp / head that you love dearlly. If you had a Orange Amp Head packed with nice tubes, which costs three thousand dollars, then yeah, it makes sense to spend $700 to capture it's tone. But to spend that much to capture tone from a combo amp? You would be better served IMHO getting a good guitar plugin and tweaking it to taste or even buying a used processor like the ELEVEN RACK ( $250) which will let you record directly over usb or through the outputs to your EMU, whatever works for you.

Todd



QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 28 2016, 02:33 PM) *
Thanks a lot to all your input.

Gear wise as stated:

E-MU 0404 as audio interface
Shure SM 57 as mic
I' m playing on an orange combo box currently at home
some KRK monitors

That's it. So based on this equipment would it make sense to add the Torpedo reload? Torpedo comes with a software copy of Wall of Sound III smile.gif



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Rammikin
post Jul 29 2016, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 28 2016, 06:33 PM) *
So based on this equipment would it make sense to add the Torpedo reload?

i would guess probably not. But as I mentioned above, it depends on what you're trying to do.


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Roadside
post Jul 29 2016, 05:34 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 29 2016, 01:25 AM) *
Sadly, NO would be my answer. If you are buying a $700 torpedo unit to record an orange combo, you are going a bit in to overkill IMHO. Have you thoughth about just using a decent guitar plugin instead? For example, GUITAR RIG, OVERLOUD TH3, REVALVER, etc? Most all of these have free demos you can try before you buy and they are all waaaay cheaper than a torpedo. The only real point of the torpedo is to record the tone from a really nice, expensive amp / head that you love dearlly. If you had a Orange Amp Head packed with nice tubes, which costs three thousand dollars, then yeah, it makes sense to spend $700 to capture it's tone. But to spend that much to capture tone from a combo amp? You would be better served IMHO getting a good guitar plugin and tweaking it to taste or even buying a used processor like the ELEVEN RACK ( $250) which will let you record directly over usb or through the outputs to your EMU, whatever works for you.

Todd


Hi Todd,

totally agree. But I would have to say that this ones my amp for home usage. I would also like to record stronger, higher priced engines for my band. Anyhow, I get the point.

To get your point: actually I do have Guitar Pro Rig 6 on side. Means you would suggest to work w/ mic and E-MU as audio interface and use Guitar Rig as an interface? What would be the main advantage of adding a processor?

getting closer and closer... biggrin.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 29 2016, 08:17 AM
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The torpedo just sounds premature at this point imho smile.gif Your interface supports multi track simultaneous recording yes? So I'd say record a dry signal of your guitar so that you can use your plugins on it later (Guitar Rig Etc.) that way you are not "married" to whatever tone you record. On another track, record your 57 and your amp. That way you have two signals that you can mix and pan as needed to get a bigger guitar sound than you normally could recording in a small room. One thing to keep in mind, if at all possible, get the amp OUT of the room when you are recording it. There is a reason that amps go in an Isolation booth in "real" studios. It's so that they don't bleed in to the room and trick your ears when you are recording them. Usually folks put them in a closet, or garage, or some other room of the house when recording, just by using a long mic cable or several mic cables hooked together.

If this isn't feasable and you have to have the guitar amp in the room with you then I'd say skip the amp and use headphones to track and use the plugins. You can always change the guitar plugin settings later, as many times as you like smile.gif Make sense?

The processor just takes some load of the CPU and it comes with some really decent sounds already baked in. The 11 rack has wads of usuable presets and it's cheap. About the cost of a guitar plugin. Also, it's a recording interface as well with a real mic preamp. It will let you record a dry guitar signal and a effected guitar signal to different tracks which is something axe fx is just now able to do.

For home recording, it's really hard to work a real amp in to things, but not impossible. For the most part, I've been using my 11 rack and then puting Overloud on the dry track and mixing the two togther/panning them. smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 29 2016, 12:34 AM) *
Hi Todd,

totally agree. But I would have to say that this ones my amp for home usage. I would also like to record stronger, higher priced engines for my band. Anyhow, I get the point.

To get your point: actually I do have Guitar Pro Rig 6 on side. Means you would suggest to work w/ mic and E-MU as audio interface and use Guitar Rig as an interface? What would be the main advantage of adding a processor?

getting closer and closer... biggrin.gif



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Roadside
post Jul 29 2016, 08:16 PM
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Hey Todd,

perfectly makes sense. I was in my local music store and took some consultancy. So for now I invested 150 bucks for a new audio interface and 350 bucks for two monitors which are really great!

Here's a pic:


Attached Image

I went with Steinberg UR 242, which is something very basic but it comes with some effects and Cubase for free.

For monitors I' ve tried lots, even the so famous KRK by Rokit, but finall I decided to go with Fluid Audio i14. Totally fell in love with the sound.

Right now Cubase is installing and Ill try to make a first rec with the new interface!

So excited, motivation above level 9000!

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Mertay
post Jul 29 2016, 09:02 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 29 2016, 07:16 PM) *
...


Very cool environment and loved the guitar smile.gif

Experiment as much as possible, also don't forget to try my suggestion too. As you get a hang of things and workflows I'm sure you'll find the best solution. The solution by the way doesn't have to be the most logical, I for example don't use an amp smile.gif


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PosterBoy
post Jul 30 2016, 06:50 AM
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That looks far too clean and tidy to be productive tongue.gif

I really need to clean up and organise my music space.


Which Tele is that, it look cool and matches the rest of your recording set up!


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Roadside
post Jul 31 2016, 02:16 PM
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Actually I never intended to have this black and white style setup but it somehow formed itself. It will not stay as clean biggrin.gif

The tele is the Jim Root custom design but I replaced the active emgs with seymour duncans since I like that sound far more.

@Mertay, I' ll try Wall of Sound soon. Right now I m demoing with Guitar Rig which is quite easy to start with. Wall of sound is similar to that?

Also already thought, what do I need that orange box for anymore wink.gif
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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 31 2016, 02:23 PM
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Looks a nice setup and I think you will be happy with it smile.gif

I've not got any experience with Wall of Sound or Guitar Rig very much. I didn't really like Guitar Rig when I tried it, but I know some people get great results. If you check out some of Muris' lessons on here, he used it for a while.

Have you tried BIAS? I believe you can demo that as well.

Then there are also some free software which I've forgotten the name of now. I believe Gabriel uses it sometimes?

EDIT: Just checked a Gabriel lesson. It's called LePou plugins, the free ones.

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Roadside
post Jul 31 2016, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 31 2016, 03:23 PM) *
Looks a nice setup and I think you will be happy with it smile.gif

I've not got any experience with Wall of Sound or Guitar Rig very much. I didn't really like Guitar Rig when I tried it, but I know some people get great results. If you check out some of Muris' lessons on here, he used it for a while.

Have you tried BIAS? I believe you can demo that as well.

Then there are also some free software which I've forgotten the name of now. I believe Gabriel uses it sometimes?

EDIT: Just checked a Gabriel lesson. It's called LePou plugins, the free ones.


These are some goods advices. Will check if I can find good version for MAC and try out all of those.

I was not too pleased by the performance of Guitar rig when it comes to the bass notes and strong chords. It sounds kind of "buzzy". But this far I have only been experimenting with presets. Maybe need to find my own setup here.
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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 31 2016, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 31 2016, 03:27 PM) *
These are some goods advices. Will check if I can find good version for MAC and try out all of those.

I was not too pleased by the performance of Guitar rig when it comes to the bass notes and strong chords. It sounds kind of "buzzy". But this far I have only been experimenting with presets. Maybe need to find my own setup here.


I've always said most plugins and pedals etc. can be tweaked to get good sound. That may be stretching the truth a bit, but there's definitely always a point in trying to tweak your settings for a better sound. Someone may have made or uploaded a preset with one guitar, one set of pick ups etc. and it will not sound the same on your own guitar.

There are lots of demos on BIAS on youtube, but you should check it out yourself. I do believe you can download a demo, which will cut out for 3 seconds or so every 10 minutes. That's not optimal of course, but it gives you an idea of the software.



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Roadside
post Jul 31 2016, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 31 2016, 03:31 PM) *
I've always said most plugins and pedals etc. can be tweaked to get good sound. That may be stretching the truth a bit, but there's definitely always a point in trying to tweak your settings for a better sound. Someone may have made or uploaded a preset with one guitar, one set of pick ups etc. and it will not sound the same on your own guitar.

There are lots of demos on BIAS on youtube, but you should check it out yourself. I do believe you can download a demo, which will cut out for 3 seconds or so every 10 minutes. That's not optimal of course, but it gives you an idea of the software.



Just started downloading. That sample on youtube is great.

I am also wondering about price. For guitar rig its about 200 euros for a full version. Similar level with 180 for professional, but only 80 for the basic version. Good that they all offer demos so that I can compare one by another.
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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 31 2016, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 31 2016, 03:36 PM) *
Just started downloading. That sample on youtube is great.

I am also wondering about price. For guitar rig its about 200 euros for a full version. Similar level with 180 for professional, but only 80 for the basic version. Good that they all offer demos so that I can compare one by another.


I also used BIAS for the demo of the song I have in my signature below my posts. That may show a less "professional" side of it and what can be achieved by someone who's not a pro. smile.gif



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Mertay
post Jul 31 2016, 05:39 PM
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It takes time to master any of these programs, Fzalfa for example have been working with it for a while and getting pretty close results; https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...mp;#entry735777

As for Torpedo, clearly the approach I mentioned is a bit too advanced for you right now. We'll get back to it when you finish demoing other stuff.


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