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> Folks Still Running Huge Racks And Two Cabs
Todd Simpson
post Sep 23 2016, 10:33 PM
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This rig is impressive and sounds killer wink.gif It's the type of "Bob Bradshaw" rig that every touring musician wanted during the 80's-90's before modelling became a thing. The switchable soldano x88r preamp (Later produced by Bradshaw as the CAE 3+preamp) was the forerunner to all of that. We can thank Mike Soldano and Bob Bradhsaw for coming up with this idea for STEVE LUKATHER so that Steve didn't have to lug a Marshall head (for rythm) a Vox Head ) for cleans and a Soldano Head (for lead). Instead, they built him a single unit that had 3 preamps in it that replaced all three amp heads. Run that to a power amp and put some fx in, and bam! Riggage of the Stars. The delay was it's own unit. It cost a couple thousand bucks. Takes up a rack space all by itself. There was a chorus unit that did the same. Then you need a switch box to control all the fx loops. This was run in stereo to a stereo power amp to two 4x12 cabs. This was "The Rig" of the day.

It's still in use and here is a great example of one smile.gif
QUESTION: Are we better off now or then?



Here is a guy using the CAE Preamp (same basic idea as the x88r) with an AXE FX and MATRIX POWER AMP. The AXE FX/MATRIX POWER AMP is the "Rig of the Moment" for current Touring Stars. But, the tone of this tube preamp is just so darn good that this guy has one in his fx loop.

I did the same sorta thing with my 11 rack. The amps in it are very good. Then I plugged in a real tube preamp and WOW. The Depth, character, tone, was amazing compared to the amp simulation. I was blown away. So, like him, I use both smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 23 2016, 10:49 PM


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Mertay
post Sep 23 2016, 11:03 PM
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Yeah Thats a famous rig smile.gif I think Lukather still uses the (some-what) emulated version of that with his Bogner amp;



To be fair though racks were so popular in that era aside Steve so few got a non-digital or thin sounding rig biggrin.gif the sound was new but it needed time to properly implement it and luckyly digital these days can do it well.

Funny I watched this today and thinking of sharing about modern tech benefits, watch the first 3 minutes smile.gif



The fulltone definitly sounds better to me and I'd love to have one at home but not everybody today can deal with it smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Sep 23 2016, 11:06 PM


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bleez
post Sep 24 2016, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 23 2016, 11:03 PM) *
The fulltone definitly sounds better to me and I'd love to have one at home but not everybody today can deal with it smile.gif

yeah, this weeks show was excellent. If the SS tape machine can be that temperamental in the hands of those guys , I wouldnt last 5 minutes with it! although when it was running... what a sound ohmy.gif it was just amazing!
I would have the belle epoch pedal out of those, it sounded great and I might at least be able to work it smile.gif

Id like to try a pre amp into the 11R, I heard a recording that Chris S done using the Behringer MIC100 which isnt expensive but he had a killer sound, although TBH he always does.
do they just go in before the 11? like guitar > pre amp > 11r



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Mertay
post Sep 24 2016, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Sep 24 2016, 08:47 AM) *
yeah, this weeks show was excellent. If the SS tape machine can be that temperamental in the hands of those guys , I wouldnt last 5 minutes with it! although when it was running... what a sound ohmy.gif it was just amazing!
I would have the belle epoch pedal out of those, it sounded great and I might at least be able to work it smile.gif


eheh imagine recording an album before computer, its basically the same mechanism biggrin.gif

There are a zillion types of delay pedals by the way (analog, semi-analog, digital, digital-modeling and tape) and its amazing how all of them sound different from each other. I might make a topic about this someday cause it can be really confusing for most.


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bleez
post Sep 24 2016, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 24 2016, 02:01 PM) *
eheh imagine recording an album before computer, its basically the same mechanism biggrin.gif

I watched a program about the recording of Dark side of the moon. They talk about the intro to 'Time' with all the different clocks. It was a room full of tape, everyones hands on different faders, hand signals and stopwatches smile.gif All you would need now is one guy with a laptop!


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 25 2016, 10:37 PM
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Oddly enought that Tape Echo is so legendary that there is an emulation of it in the 11 Rack smile.gif
Attached Image
I'm using my preamp in the FX loop of my 11 rack so that I can turn it on and off with midi control smile.gif It's just one of the blocks in the fx chain. I turn the amp emulation off, leave the cab emulation on and use the preamp as the amp essentially. smile.gif


QUOTE (bleez @ Sep 24 2016, 04:47 AM) *
yeah, this weeks show was excellent. If the SS tape machine can be that temperamental in the hands of those guys , I wouldnt last 5 minutes with it! although when it was running... what a sound ohmy.gif it was just amazing!
I would have the belle epoch pedal out of those, it sounded great and I might at least be able to work it smile.gif

Id like to try a pre amp into the 11R, I heard a recording that Chris S done using the Behringer MIC100 which isnt expensive but he had a killer sound, although TBH he always does.
do they just go in before the 11? like guitar > pre amp > 11r


He loves the bogners so much that he has gone back to using amps and pedals smile.gif If bogner started making rack preamps and rack power amps I'm guessing they would show up in Lukathers rig smile.gif

QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 23 2016, 06:03 PM) *
Yeah Thats a famous rig smile.gif I think Lukather still uses the (some-what) emulated version of that with his Bogner amp;


The fulltone definitly sounds better to me and I'd love to have one at home but not everybody today can deal with it smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Sep 28 2016, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 23 2016, 10:03 PM) *
Funny I watched this today and thinking of sharing about modern tech benefits, watch the first 3 minutes smile.gif


I've been thinking about getting a Replicator.





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Mertay
post Sep 28 2016, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Sep 28 2016, 04:58 AM) *
I've been thinking about getting a Replicator.



Its actually a pretty new design which as I understand doesn't try to replicate any historic sound but has its own thing going on.

Modern engineering, modern features and being affordable when compared I wouldn't expect it to be needing serviced for a long time. The cartiges are also not very expensive which is good.

But having a backup delay is the logical approach cause I wouldn't want such a unit to stay on the floor always and sun from window reaching it. Detail here is unlike digital any kind of analog delay can't replicate every sound so expectations are important.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 13 2016, 05:06 PM
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It's a neat idea and very retro smile.gif Would certainly look cool when you pulled it out to use in a session and what not! In practical, boring terms though, the Echoplex in side the 11 rack sounds about like it to my ears and used, costs ONE THIRD Of the price. That replicator unit is around $1,000!!!!! For that, I'd put a bit more down and just by an Axe FX smile.gif Or buy three used 11 racks and set all the echo plex units in each one to different settings smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 28 2016, 05:52 AM) *
Its actually a pretty new design which as I understand doesn't try to replicate any historic sound but has its own thing going on.

Modern engineering, modern features and being affordable when compared I wouldn't expect it to be needing serviced for a long time. The cartiges are also not very expensive which is good.

But having a backup delay is the logical approach cause I wouldn't want such a unit to stay on the floor always and sun from window reaching it. Detail here is unlike digital any kind of analog delay can't replicate every sound so expectations are important.



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Mertay
post Oct 13 2016, 05:43 PM
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hehehe and this is affordable!! biggrin.gif

its really about the wanted detail, here's something interesting like a reverse example; http://www.strymon.net/brigadier/



This is the strymon Brigader, its using a SHARC DSP and all that power is used to simulate bucket brigade tone.

One can buy 2 mxr carbon copy pedals (the most popular bucket brigade delay) instead of this, go figure biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 13 2016, 06:20 PM


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Rammikin
post Oct 13 2016, 06:12 PM
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I guess a Strymon would be a little more affordable, but that doesn't change my mind about wanting a Replicator smile.gif

FYI, you're confusing Sharc with TigerSharc chips.




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Mertay
post Oct 13 2016, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 05:12 PM) *
I guess a Strymon would be a little more affordable, but that doesn't change my mind about wanting a Replicator smile.gif

FYI, you're confusing Sharc with TigerSharc chips.


Corrected! and yeah there isn't much logic to gear when it comes to guitar players biggrin.gif


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