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bleez
post Oct 7 2016, 02:37 PM
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Dont know much about them tbh so largely noob Qs rolleyes.gif

if you have an amp profile of, something like a bluesbreaker, would that profile allow you run the 'amp' clean as well as dirty or do you have a clean profile and a dirty profile of the same amp?

Also, do kemper users tend to use pedals with the profiles or do you get profiles of TS9s and Muffs etc?


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Wyverex
post Oct 7 2016, 04:33 PM
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If an amp has separate channels you should best create a profile of each separate channel if you want to stay true to the original sound. But in any case the gain knob on the Kemper works like a clean to full gain knob, i.e. even if you created a profile from a high gain channel, you can make it completely clean by turning the knob all the way down which is something you couldn't do on a real amp. So by deliberately using the gain knob you can actually deviate from the real tone. Whether that's desirable for you is a personal question smile.gif

Can't say much about the effects since I haven't really used them when testing a Kemper some time ago.
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Rammikin
post Oct 8 2016, 06:48 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 7 2016, 01:37 PM) *
if you have an amp profile of, something like a bluesbreaker, would that profile allow you run the 'amp' clean as well as dirty or do you have a clean profile and a dirty profile of the same amp?


Like Wyverex says, the short answer is "yes, you would need 2 profiles". But I'll add: That's the difference between Kemper and an Axe FX. With Kemper you profile one snapshot of an amp/cabinet. It's a faithful rendition of that amp at one setting, but it doesn't model the control behavior of the original amp.

On the other hand, an Axe FX completely models the amp, including exactly how it cleans up when you turn down the gain. The Kemper has conventional amp controls, so you can clean the sound up, but don't expect it to sound like the real thing when you do that.

With a Kemper profile you can quickly get a specific sound that sounds great and there are no limits on how many different amps can be profiled. With an Axe FX you get a complete model of the amp with all the idiosyncrasies of the original. For example, having a full model of the amp allows you to capture things like the way the presence knob on a Bogner interacts with the gain. But you're limited to the few hundred amps that Fractal Audio has modeled.




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klasaine
post Oct 8 2016, 07:20 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 7 2016, 10:48 PM) *
But you're limited to the few hundred amps that Fractal Audio has modeled.


"limited by a few hundred" ... put into 'real' perspective, having even 10 (actual, physical) amps is a lot!
Are there even a few hundred amps (makes and models) in existence?

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 8 2016, 07:20 AM


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bleez
post Oct 8 2016, 08:52 AM
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axe fx seem quite scarce over here. dont think Ive ever seen one in the usual uk sites. occasionally one pops up on ebay used for a lot of money. They do seem like an excellent unit though.
regarding downloading Kemper profiles, Im guessing the sound will be affected by the guitar / pickups of the person profiling it so is it radically different when you play it through your guitar?
I wouldn't be profiling my own rig I'd need to rely on other peoples.
Is it the norm to use real pedals with it of are the built in effects what folks tend to stick with?

QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 8 2016, 07:20 AM) *
"limited by a few hundred" ... put into 'real' perspective, having even 10 (actual, physical) amps is a lot!

I think Ive only ever had 6 amps in my entire life!


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Tom51
post Oct 8 2016, 09:21 AM
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Hi Scott - I found these two vids very interesting...so even the pros were surprised by the Kemper profiler.



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bleez
post Oct 8 2016, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ Oct 8 2016, 09:21 AM) *
Hi Scott - I found these two vids very interesting...so even the pros were surprised by the Kemper profiler.

yes indeed smile.gif those were great. I see chappers and all of Dorje now have kempers!
I would really like to see the guys from 'that pedal show' do a kemper vid, that would be most interesting.


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Tom51
post Oct 8 2016, 09:33 AM
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right - and besides the thousands of free profiles there are so many professional profiles made in studios with cool old amps for a few cents available. I am really thinking of selling an amp and a guitar and buy a Kemper instead.
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Rammikin
post Oct 8 2016, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 8 2016, 06:20 AM) *
"limited by a few hundred" ... put into 'real' perspective, having even 10 (actual, physical) amps is a lot!
Are there even a few hundred amps (makes and models) in existence?


I meant to put a smiley face on that smile.gif. Here's the list of AxeFX amp models http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index....Amp:_all_models



QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 8 2016, 07:52 AM) *
axe fx seem quite scarce over here. dont think Ive ever seen one in the usual uk sites. occasionally one pops up on ebay used for a lot of money. They do seem like an excellent unit though.
regarding downloading Kemper profiles, Im guessing the sound will be affected by the guitar / pickups of the person profiling it so is it radically different when you play it through your guitar?
I wouldn't be profiling my own rig I'd need to rely on other peoples.
Is it the norm to use real pedals with it of are the built in effects what folks tend to stick with?


The only place to buy a new Axe FX is from Fractal Audio. They have a liberal return policy, so basically you buy one, try it out, then return it if you don't like it.

Yes, you've put your finger on a problem that is always a dilemma with profiles. A Kemper profile sounds true to the original amp when played with the profile creator's gear. For anybody else, it may or may not sound good. An Axe FX is faithful to the original amp and will sound like the original amp no matter what you plug into it.

Kemper includes boost pedal models, but those are not a strong point of Kemper, so it's not unusual for someone to use a real boost pedal in front of it.


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klasaine
post Oct 8 2016, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 8 2016, 05:43 AM) *
I meant to put a smiley face on that smile.gif. Here's the list of AxeFX amp models http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index....Amp:_all_models


I know smile.gif
I was commenting more on what we have access to and even take for granted in guitarland these days. The shear amount of amps, pedals, modelers and decent quality, inexpensive instruments is astounding!

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 8 2016, 03:58 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 8 2016, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 8 2016, 08:20 AM) *
"limited by a few hundred" ... put into 'real' perspective, having even 10 (actual, physical) amps is a lot!
Are there even a few hundred amps (makes and models) in existence?


The problem is that all those amps come from the same developer, so you are completely bound to his vision of how a miced amp should sound.

QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 7 2016, 03:37 PM) *
Also, do kemper users tend to use pedals with the profiles or do you get profiles of TS9s and Muffs etc?


Kemper has modeled the most famous distortion boxes (the ones you mentioned are included). Please note that these pedals are modeled by the kemper team, they are not "profiles". Some people don't think the modeled pedals sound quite like the real thing and some do.

I think they sound fine. But once you realise you can pretty much get any amp in the world, the need for pedals drastically drops. I'd much rather use the amps distortion if it covers my needs.

As far as stomps I mainly use the pure boster, EQ stomp (which thanks to it's powerful dynamics control can be turned into anything) and sometimes a treble booster.

I don't use any external stomps anymore.


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Mertay
post Oct 8 2016, 09:32 PM
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Years ago I did some beta testing for a software that samples studio gear (helped both the company and 3rd party developers). I'm not in touch anymore but they're doing a pretty good job these days https://www.acustica-audio.com/ .

A good and bad thing in sampling always adds or takes something from the sound. Like, one can place a pedal to the amp and sample them together (or use studio gear to sweeten the responce) to make a good sound-such customisations are what makes things fun. But on the other hand, someone can sample tweaked vst plug-ins and might sell them as sampled analog gear (be careful about that).

In time, it becomes all about the sound and how much you like it-not how close to the real amp is.

With something like an axe-fx there will always be comparing, we also have the custom-ir thing going on too so subjectivity is also involved. An axe-fx feels safer to me while Kemper more exciting.

I demoed the first made axe-fx with a friend about a year ago and honestly prefered vst amp sounds of today smile.gif I bet people sweared by it that it sounded just like a real amp those days biggrin.gif so how will todays axe-fx be 15 years later?

the same firend asked me about the helix and I reminded him our experience+told him to continue inversting on analog gear as he already has a cool setup.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 8 2016, 09:35 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 9 2016, 12:21 AM
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I love em all smile.gif They each have their own quirks which is what makes em cool. I've not owned a Kemper or Axe yet, as I usually keep my budgets around second or third year student money if possible. Hated seeing folks with better gear as a student, just a personal thing, so I try to have wads of semi crap gear smile.gif To show that it really is in the fingers. Used gear, discontinued gear, 10 year old guitars and processors etc. New bits now and then but nothing crazy typically. I would like to have one of each kemper/axe at some point smile.gif Once they run about $400 that is. Till then, I'm honestly happy with just a laptop and a a good plugin like TH2, TH3, etc. The rest is really gravy. The one big splurge was my tube myasnikove preamp, which btw cost the same as my pro tone Misha overdrive!! smile.gif

Todd


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Rammikin
post Oct 9 2016, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 8 2016, 08:32 PM) *
In time, it becomes all about the sound and how much you like it-not how close to the real amp is.


I would humbly say Yes and no. Yes, I agree emphasis will shift from mimicing a real amp to getting a pleasing sound.

But I would disagree that it's all about the sound. There are now several digital amp modelers that objectively sound great. That's no longer enough to set you apart if you're trying to impress people with your amp modeler. The area where there is the most room for growth is the features that are peripheral to the sound. Things like user interface, remote control, signal routing, effects complexity, sharing community, DAW integration, etc. That's what will set the best modelers apart in the years ahead.




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Todd Simpson
post Oct 9 2016, 05:19 AM
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I must say I agree smile.gif Now that great tone is on tap, it's probably going to be features that separate the units more than anything else. Expandability, variety, customization, etc. Brave new world eh? smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 8 2016, 10:37 PM) *
I would humbly say Yes and no. Yes, I agree emphasis will shift from mimicing a real amp to getting a pleasing sound.

But I would disagree that it's all about the sound. There are now several digital amp modelers that objectively sound great. That's no longer enough to set you apart if you're trying to impress people with your amp modeler. The area where there is the most room for growth is the features that are peripheral to the sound. Things like user interface, remote control, signal routing, effects complexity, sharing community, DAW integration, etc. That's what will set the best modelers apart in the years ahead.


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Wyverex
post Oct 9 2016, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 9 2016, 02:37 AM) *
[...] The area where there is the most room for growth is the features that are peripheral to the sound. Things like user interface, remote control, signal routing, effects complexity, sharing community, DAW integration, etc. That's what will set the best modelers apart in the years ahead.


This!

I've been down that route over the last weeks, compared an AX8 with a Helix and a Kemper (although the Kemper only for a few hours, too few to make a final judgement call) because I was looking a for an all-in-one solution. And in the end my choice fell on the Helix. Sound is always subjective but let's be honest, you can get great sounds out of each of those devices. So it's about the features. And the Helix wins hands down for me. Multiple inputs (one passive, one active, one mic), 4 FX send/return paths, multi-amp setup, USB Audio-Interface, MIDI Controller, Expression Pedal, godly usability that just makes you think what the AX8 and Kemper smoked when they designed their UIs. Heck, you can run a guitar, a bass and a mic in parallel with effects (to a certain degree limited by DSP power). It's my main device now and I'm very happy with it. Even thinking about selling my Mini Rectifier now rolleyes.gif
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bleez
post Oct 9 2016, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 8 2016, 08:50 PM) *
I think they sound fine. But once you realise you can pretty much get any amp in the world, the need for pedals drastically drops. I'd much rather use the amps distortion if it covers my needs.

As far as stomps I mainly use the pure boster, EQ stomp (which thanks to it's powerful dynamics control can be turned into anything) and sometimes a treble booster.

I don't use any external stomps anymore.

thanks for the pedal info, I had been curious about that. Kris, what profiles do you tend to use the most?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 8 2016, 09:32 PM) *
the same firend asked me about the helix and I reminded him our experience+told him to continue inversting on analog gear as he already has a cool setup.

TBH I would like to use a real amp and pedals. You know I was gonna buy that amp last year but at the last minute switched to the 11r. I had to accept the fact that I need silent practice 99% of the time.
Maybe the type of sounds Im after are outwith the ability in my fingers cool.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 9 2016, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 9 2016, 10:05 AM) *
thanks for the pedal info, I had been curious about that. Kris, what profiles do you tend to use the most?


I am constantly exploring, and I try to use a new profile every day, just for variation. For solo my current favorites are from M BRitt and Bert Meulendijk. Our own Guido has done some cool profiles as well which get quite some praise but I haven't gotten to testing them yet.

For metal rhythm I use Sinmix exclusively so far.

I also use many of the top rated profiles in Rig Exchange, like Morgan Ac20 and several others (which I don't remember the name of).


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klasaine
post Oct 9 2016, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 9 2016, 01:05 AM) *
Maybe the type of sounds Im after are outwith the ability in my fingers cool.gif


Quote from John Suhr, the famous guitar builder ... "practice cures most tone issues".


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Mertay
post Oct 9 2016, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 9 2016, 08:05 AM) *
I had to accept the fact that I need silent practice 99% of the time.


There are product that you can place between the speaker outs to soundcard, they turn the speaker out to line level but they're pricey.

The cool thing about digital is also you get to try all the amps you want and finally have some idea of what the actual amp you'd want, it usually turns out to be something expensive so save cash while exploring biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 9 2016, 02:37 AM) *
But I would disagree that it's all about the sound. There are now several digital amp modelers that objectively sound great. That's no longer enough to set you apart if you're trying to impress people with your amp modeler. The area where there is the most room for growth is the features that are peripheral to the sound. Things like user interface, remote control, signal routing, effects complexity, sharing community, DAW integration, etc. That's what will set the best modelers apart in the years ahead.


My route was a bit different I guess smile.gif as the processor got older I prefered to upgrade the weakest things that started to bother me, like buying a soundcard, pedals even software...The afforadble multi-solution in time evolved nicely, specially the analog upgrades can even be considered investments. But I should add that processors were crap compared to the high-end stuff today, I guess we'll wait and see how todays processors will compare to the tech of tomorrow...

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 9 2016, 03:57 PM


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