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> Back To The Beginning, Do any of you ever feel like doing this?
Phil66
post Oct 10 2016, 10:28 PM
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Hello folks,

Do any of you ever feel like going back to the beginning of your guitar studies? I mean asking your instructor or getting your beginners books out and starting again add though you know nothing, just in case you've "missed something". I still don't know what chords to play in any given key and I sometimes think to myself, "maybe I skipped that info in the past".

I'm not saying anyone should do this, just asking if any of you ever feel like doing it. Like learning the open chords from one key and learning why they're from that key and then learning some simple campfire type songs using those chords, then maybe the correct scale and some simple four bar solos for the songs.

I know this seems like a giant step backwards but it does cross my mind sometimes.

Cheers

Phil


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Wyverex
post Oct 10 2016, 10:43 PM
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IMHO, just thinking about that already shows that you are serious about your guitar playing. One thing I learned over the years is that the more you learn about something, the more you learn what you don't yet know. I realized that over the last years, during my Taiji training. It's humbling but it's part of the journey.

That being said, I completely understand where this is coming from related to guitar because I often feel the same way about my guitar playing. Maybe the topics are a bit different but I also think very often that there is so much foundational stuff that I know exists (and probably even can identify) but that I cannot use effectively because I never practiced it.

But look at the upside: Until you are a master on your instrument, you will probably always feel that way. I find comfort in that. smile.gif
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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 11 2016, 09:42 AM
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I agree with Wyverex - this is a healthy thing to think about and do.

ACtually I am doing it in this very moment, I have slowed down to 50 bpm - working on triplet lines with legato only. It's doing miracles for my playing - even though I rejected this kind of practicing years ago ("I'm too good for that stuff").

So in some cases I believe going back to basics = getting better faster


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bleez
post Oct 11 2016, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 10 2016, 10:28 PM) *
Hello folks,

Do any of you ever feel like going back to the beginning of your guitar studies? I mean asking your instructor or getting your beginners books out and starting again add though you know nothing, just in case you've "missed something". I still don't know what chords to play in any given key and I sometimes think to myself, "maybe I skipped that info in the past".

I'm not saying anyone should do this, just asking if any of you ever feel like doing it. Like learning the open chords from one key and learning why they're from that key and then learning some simple campfire type songs using those chords, then maybe the correct scale and some simple four bar solos for the songs.

I know this seems like a giant step backwards but it does cross my mind sometimes.

Cheers

Phil


Ive had to take a few steps back on occasion for sure. I also feel like quitting on an alarmingly regular basis!
I dont, however, feel the need to learn campfire songs or start playing Kum ba yah cool.gif Im not going to use that kind of stuff so I dont bother with it.
I dont know jack about musical theory but at this moment in time I really dont care, If it becomes relevant I can go back over it but for now I prefer to stick with the techniques involved in the music I want to play.
But that said, Im no role model for learning guitar smile.gif


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fzalfa
post Oct 11 2016, 08:44 PM
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sometimes i feel starting again from the begining too....

theses previous days i was on a nice progresseion, and now, i'm feel like everything is lost and need to be re learned again.....weird

Cheers

Laurent


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Phil66
post Oct 11 2016, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 11 2016, 08:37 PM) *
Ive had to take a few steps back on occasion for sure. I also feel like quitting on an alarmingly regular basis!
I dont, however, feel the need to learn campfire songs or start playing Kum ba yah cool.gif Im not going to use that kind of stuff so I dont bother with it.
I dont know jack about musical theory but at this moment in time I really dont care, If it becomes relevant I can go back over it but for now I prefer to stick with the techniques involved in the music I want to play.
But that said, Im no role model for learning guitar smile.gif

Thing is Scott, when I'm at my mate's shop and a couple of players are in, I'd like join in with their jammin, they'll say " c'mon Phil, it's in C just go with it" and I'll say I'm too tired or got a bad finger or some other shit laugh.gif

I've always wanted to know theory but everything I've read hasn't sunk in. It needs to be applied and no tutors or books seem to do that. Maybe I'm misinterpreting everything????

Cheers bud

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 12 2016, 10:09 AM


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bleez
post Oct 12 2016, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 11 2016, 11:03 PM) *
Thing is Scott, when I'm at my mate's shop and a couple of players are in, I'd like join in with their jammin, they'll say " c'mon Phil, it's in C just go with it" and I'll say I'm too tired or got a bad finger or some other shit laugh.gif

not being all that sociable, I dont find myself in those situations much thesedays tongue.gif but back in the day Ive been there. My mates would usually jam on 12 bar blues type chords and solo over that in turn.
What bits do you think you cant do in this situation?
Im guessing they are only playing 3 or 4 chords, you can also play the powerchord version if you get stuck.
if you are playing lead then fire into your minor pent shapes, even sticking to one position.
Ive heard you do this sort of thing in collabs and shred challenges. you've already got a foundation to build on.
devote some practice time to chords and improv.
Its probably a confidence thing more than anything.


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Oct 12 2016, 09:14 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 11 2016, 10:03 PM) *
Thing is Scott, when I'm at my mate's shop and a couple of players are in, I'd like join in with their jammin, they'll say " c'mon Phil, it's in C just go with it" and I'll say I'm too tired or got a bad finger or some other shit laugh.gif

I've always wanted to know theory but everything I've read hasn't stunk in. It needs to be applied and no tutors or books seem to do that. Maybe I'm misinterpreting everything????

Cheers bud

Phil

Scott has perfectly right "it's probably a confidence thing". You have a base because you proved this in collabs. Try to hear the music instead to get stuck when somebody tells you " c'mon Phil, it's in C just go with it". You can do this, just listen the music without to be stressed and what you learned will come out instinctively wink.gif

Now about music theory. Look, you can't learn the music theory without to apply this. Learning theory and training your ear go hand in hand. Trying to do only one is useless and overly difficult. To be able to understand how things work, the music theory it's proper to be learned in this way: "if you do "X" this is how it will sound". If you don't know "this is how it will sound" for each concept that you learn, I'm afraid you will not learn much things.
So the best solution to understand things is after each concept that you learn, play it. Make sure that you do few examples for each concept.

Also the music theory it's better to be learned with a teacher. A good teacher is only the one which will put you to apply each thing that you learn wink.gif
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Phil66
post Oct 12 2016, 10:30 AM
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I guess it is confidence thing because I don't want to mess up and I'm embarrassed to ask "what chords are you playing?" when they've told me it's in C or E minor or whatever it is.

When I said about learning camp fire songs, it's not a desire to learn the songs themselves but to get a foundation. I sometimes feel I have never put down a good foundation to build on, I mean, I bought my first guitar and the Surfin Wth the Alien TAB book together laugh.gif . How deluded was I? laugh.gif

I read THIS from cover to cover, it all made sense but it didn't stick in my head because i didn't apply it gradually from foundation work onwards. I don't want to get bogged down with theory, just understand the fundamentals. I like to understand the "rules" so I can understand how to break them wink.gif

I guess I'm feeling a little lost at the moment, one of those phases I go through sometimes.



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PosterBoy
post Oct 12 2016, 10:55 AM
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Phil I find for me it's usually something in the foundational parts of guitar playing that is holding me back, it's always a technique thing for me.

For you luckily it's very easy to get to grips with the basics of scales and chord structure, then it's all just a little time with pen and paper and then spending some time analysing some songs and chord progressions. After that it's about ear training to hear and recognise the chord changes.

If you delve into the Theory forum The Professor did a series of posts from the basics you can read. Message me if you want some help. This is actually something I'm quite good with!!!

This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Oct 12 2016, 10:56 AM


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Phil66
post Oct 12 2016, 12:12 PM
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Thanks buddy smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 12 2016, 12:25 PM
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I'm on board with this approach as well! It's good to "Go back to the source" now and again smile.gif Remember the bits we have forgotten and focus again on the fundamentals. Too often, we let our basic skills suffer in order to move to more advanced bits only to realize that the foundational bits are what are holding us back, not the advanced bits.

Todd


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 11 2016, 04:42 AM) *
I agree with Wyverex - this is a healthy thing to think about and do.

ACtually I am doing it in this very moment, I have slowed down to 50 bpm - working on triplet lines with legato only. It's doing miracles for my playing - even though I rejected this kind of practicing years ago ("I'm too good for that stuff").

So in some cases I believe going back to basics = getting better faster



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Darius Wave
post Oct 12 2016, 01:40 PM
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My method was always to analyze things and make lots of variations while doing particular thing/lick/riff. Asking o lot of "why's" is a good thing.

I believe doing analysis around things in progress is more valueable. It makes some clearance and stays in head for longer. Learning all the theory like for a school exam can be tricky....you can quickly loose most of the knowledge because you do not use it at the moment.



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bleez
post Oct 12 2016, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 12 2016, 10:30 AM) *
I guess it is confidence thing because I don't want to mess up and I'm embarrassed to ask "what chords are you playing?" when they've told me it's in C or E minor or whatever it is.

When I said about learning camp fire songs, it's not a desire to learn the songs themselves but to get a foundation. I sometimes feel I have never put down a good foundation to build on, I mean, I bought my first guitar and the Surfin Wth the Alien TAB book together laugh.gif . How deluded was I? laugh.gif

I read THIS from cover to cover, it all made sense but it didn't stick in my head because i didn't apply it gradually from foundation work onwards. I don't want to get bogged down with theory, just understand the fundamentals. I like to understand the "rules" so I can understand how to break them wink.gif

I guess I'm feeling a little lost at the moment, one of those phases I go through sometimes.


Its easy to feel lost when you look at the amount of stuff there is to learn. Its like you're swimming along fine until you clock how big the sea is then you freak out and drown cool.gif I do that!
Also, I wouldn't be embarrassed to ask those guys what the chords are. I doubt very much that they would care in the slightest. I would ask them if it were me and if they slagged me off about it...... I would simply beat the shit out of them biggrin.gif
Ive looked at the theory side before as well, it did not sink in. I would def need to go back over the total basics again, probably a few times before I understood it.


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