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> Hillary Must Lose
jstcrsn
post Oct 12 2016, 11:03 PM
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And people don't want Donald because he talks like he is Tommy lee
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fkalich
post Oct 13 2016, 02:18 AM
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And now they are coming out, women exposing Trump as an actual real life sexual predator, that it was not just "locker room talk" as Trump claimed, when the tape was released of him bragging about sexually molesting women. Two today, with many to follow.

How much will this effect his supporters? Little or nothing, it won't matter to them. Here is an interview with one of them, a congressman from Texas. He was asked that if a tape emerged where Trump said that "he liked to rape women", would he still endorse him? The conservative congressman said "I would consider it".



This post has been edited by fkalich: Oct 13 2016, 02:35 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Oct 13 2016, 05:36 AM
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Bingo! It's almost like watching folks who have been a pinch brainwashed IMHO. No matter what comes out, no matter how awful it is, (E.G. I'm famous so I grab them in the P***Y), those who have drunk the Koolaid, just won't care. He could do horrible things to children right in front of trump tower, and cameras could be rolling, and it still would not matter. His "Surrogates" woujld get back on the news and claim "People don't care about that".

Now the new York times reports that he actually has women that say he sexually assaulted them. Not a blog, or some nut case, the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/opinion/...chief.html?_r=0

So yeah, it doesn't matter what he does, or says, or doesn't do or doesn't say. His "Base" just doesn't care enough about any of that to be swayed. They have been sold on the idea that Mrs Clinton is pretty much the Devil Made Flesh who wants to "Take our Guns" and "Destroy Our Country". At least she won't try to grab it in the "P***Y" smile.gif

BTW This is my fave vid so far smile.gif With Pence saying one thing, then a clip of Trump saying the exact opposite. Classic smile.gif


BOTTOM LINE: Until the supreme court overturns something called the "CITIZENS UNITED" case, we can't get the "Dark Money" out of our politics. As a result, we have sold our souls to a small group of companies and very rich folks like the KOCH brothers, who have turned our "Democracy" in to a total sham.

That's why the big dust up over approving the next few supreme court nominees. If "people are corporations" under the law, then any company can secretly buy any politician. Such as been the case for a while now. sad.gif Until we get the money out, I fear for our countries future.

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 13 2016, 06:05 AM


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klasaine
post Oct 13 2016, 03:06 PM
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Speaking of Citizens United ...

In CA this November, besides the Pres. election we also have a lot of other ballot measures. One of them, Proposition 59 is an advisory measure seeking voter opinion on whether officials should act to overturn the Citizens United court ruling. If Ca approves this then it gets sent to Washington DC as an 'opinion'. Doesn't sound like much of anything, right? Well, this is how Prohibition and it's eventual repeal got started. This is how an amendment to the constitution gets started. Don't need the SCOTUS to overturn anything. Enacting Prohibition took years. Repealing it took about 18 months.



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Todd Simpson
post Oct 13 2016, 03:38 PM
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I'm all for PROP 59. In fact, I might have some Tshirts and Bumper Stickers made!! That one issue really is at the core, IMHO of everything that is wrong with out political system, along with everything else of course smile.gif But yeah, if we could get that fixed, I'd regain at least some faith in our "Democracy". Or else we will just have to start calling it a "Buy-Ocracy", Bought by the rich, for the rich, serving the rich, giving everyone else the short straw.

Found another funny SNL skit that reminded me so much of watching CNN lately smile.gif If you don't watch CNN and have not seen the "Surrogates" you may not get this gag at all. But if you have,.....



QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 13 2016, 10:06 AM) *
Speaking of Citizens United ...

In CA this November, besides the Pres. election we also have a lot of other ballot measures. One of them, Proposition 59 is an advisory measure seeking voter opinion on whether officials should act to overturn the Citizens United court ruling. If Ca approves this then it gets sent to Washington DC as an 'opinion'. Doesn't sound like much of anything, right? Well, this is how Prohibition and it's eventual repeal got started. This is how an amendment to the constitution gets started. Don't need the SCOTUS to overturn anything. Enacting Prohibition took years. Repealing it took about 18 months.



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AK Rich
post Oct 13 2016, 04:02 PM
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This is laughable. If we are to believe every accusation leveled against either candidate then it would mean that Hillary is on a whole different level of "dirty" and is far more unfit to be President than Trump, and a far better candidate for prison, (or even a firing squad in a different day and age) than Trump would be, right?
Have fun guys. I'm out. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Oct 14 2016, 03:41 AM
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Rammikin
post Oct 13 2016, 04:38 PM
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Whoa. Can we at least agree to not advocate killing people with whom we disagree?


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fkalich
post Oct 13 2016, 05:14 PM
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If Clinton wins by a big enough margin the Dems could take the Senate. Then they could get the Supreme court set so we could have reforms as you are talking about. I don't want them to get the house as well, I don't want anyone to have that much power.

Did you see that Bob Dylan got a Nobel Prize for literature?

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fkalich
post Oct 13 2016, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 10:38 AM) *
Whoa. Can we at least agree to not advocate killing people with whom we disagree?


I don't know what to think about that. But he just took what Trump said to the next level. This is the effect of his influence, where people say things that a year ago nobody would have said, that we would have felt were un-American. I don't hate Trump. I find him repulsive, I always have. I also think he is a stupid man in some fundamental ways, a very ignorant man. I look on him as a narcissistic psychopath But I don't hate him, I just want him to go away. I just look on people like him as I do cockroaches, I don't hate them either.


Here is Tom Hanks on why you should vote for Clinton:

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Rammikin
post Oct 13 2016, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Oct 13 2016, 04:42 PM) *
I don't know what to think about that. But he just took what Trump said to the next level. This is the effect of his influence, where people say things that a year ago nobody would have said, that we would have felt were un-American.


There seem to be two schools of thought on that. One, Trump is encouraging people to express hateful thoughts they have always had, but only now feel emboldened to express out loud. Two, Trump is inciting people to say hateful things they don’t really mean. I don’t know which is worse, but it’s definitely leading our society in a dark direction.


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klasaine
post Oct 13 2016, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Oct 13 2016, 09:14 AM) *
Did you see that Bob Dylan got a Nobel Prize for literature?


“You used to laugh about/ Everybody that was hanging out/ Now you don’t talk so loud/ Now you don’t seem so proud/ About having to be scrounging for your next meal”.


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AK Rich
post Oct 14 2016, 03:00 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 07:38 AM) *
Whoa. Can we at least agree to not advocate killing people with whom we disagree?

Ok I guess I am not out quite yet. That post was supposed to be in response to the 2nd post in this thread from fkalich.
To be clear, I am not advocating anything. I am simply pointing out that some of the things she is accused of have warranted that kind of action in the past. That's how serious the accusations are. Obviously that kind of repercussion is not going to happen in this day and age.
The point I was making is that if the election is to be decided on who has more, and more serious accusations against them being the loser, then the winner hands down would be Trump.
Also to be clear, I don't much care for either of the candidates this time around. But I will be damned if I will vote for more of the same and quite probably worse in my view than what I have seen in the past 7+ years.
And the way some of you feel about Trump is pretty similar to the way I have felt for the last 7 years. So maybe it's your turn.

Peace guys, Rich...

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Rammikin
post Oct 14 2016, 03:25 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up. FWIW, you might want to edit your post above, especially the "better yet" bit which makes it sound like you would prefer a lethal course of action be taken against Clinton.



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AK Rich
post Oct 14 2016, 03:44 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 06:25 PM) *
Thanks for clearing that up. FWIW, you might want to edit your post above, especially the "better yet" bit which makes it sound like you would prefer a lethal course of action be taken against Clinton.

Thanks Rammikin, point taken and changes made. A bad choice of words in a hurried response.

However, If she is guilty (and there is quite a bit of evidence to back up most allegations unlike the allegations against Trump, the latest which have not even been verified btw.) The punishment must be harsh enough to send a clear message to other politicians that the consequences for such crimes are extremely severe.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/marc...-clinton-229115

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-press-buri...sins-1476401308

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Todd Simpson
post Oct 14 2016, 04:13 AM
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I'm all for that smile.gif Let's agree not to advocate killing folks, or advocate sexual assault just as a baseline and go from there smile.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 11:38 AM) *
Whoa. Can we at least agree to not advocate killing people with whom we disagree?



Seems to be a bit of both smile.gif Encouraging folks who were already leaning towards wanting do unconstitutional stuff like have a "religious clause" for folks to enter the country (E.G. Proposing a Total Ban on Muslims, until he walked it back a bit), and advocating war crimes "You have to go after their families" (Trump talking about going after the Families of Terrorists, not just the bad guys themselves), advocating sexual assault, (The famous "grab em in the P***Y) line, etc.

It seems to legitimize the very worst parts of who we are as a nation and a people. Which is quite sad sad.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Oct 13 2016, 02:22 PM) *
There seem to be two schools of thought on that. One, Trump is encouraging people to express hateful thoughts they have always had, but only now feel emboldened to express out loud. Two, Trump is inciting people to say hateful things they don’t really mean. I don’t know which is worse, but it’s definitely leading our society in a dark direction.


To be clear, Hillary is no Saint. She is a very shrewd political insider who has been working it from her side of the fence for many decades. However, of all the things she has been accused of. I have yet to hear recordings of her advocating sexual assault, just as an example sad.gif I wish I could vote for the "What is Aleppo?" guy, but he is just too out of touch to be a real choice. Clearly our choices are very limited in this election. There are not "good choices", only the lesser of two evils. The electoral college will hopefully pick the least evil candidate, and we will go from there smile.gif



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klasaine
post Oct 14 2016, 05:24 AM
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"Lesser of two Evils" ... if I hear that one more friggin' time.

Neither of them are evil. One's just an overly entitled blowhard and the other one's a career politician (and that's not meant as a compliment).
If one looks to vote for a person that makes me feel good or believes the same things I believe then you're never going to ever find anyone to vote for. You don't get to the top of your party by being nice guys and gals with a totally clean past and making everybody feel good.

No politician (or person in office) cares about you the individual. They can't. At their most altruistic they have a constituency to serve. Whoever thinks that a politician gives a shit about them (the individual) is an idiot. Politics is a cross between 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' and 'A Face In the Crowd'. *If you haven't seen those two movies I suggest watching them one after another. Add in 'Elmer Gantry' for extra credit.

For me personally, it comes down to experience.
At the end of the day, the President of the United States of America, is not an entry level position.

I say she takes it over the Donald by 6%.

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fkalich
post Oct 14 2016, 06:13 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 13 2016, 10:13 PM) *
To be clear, Hillary is no Saint. She is a very shrewd political insider who has been working it from her side of the fence for many decades. However, of all the things she has been accused of. I have yet to hear recordings of her advocating sexual assault, just as an example sad.gif I



She actually is a pretty good candidate. The most qualified candidate we have had in American history, running against perhaps the least qualified; I don't know if Harding was worse than Trump, that is a difficult call. But it would be either Trump of Harding. It is not fair how so many trash her. I don't understand it, but I think it is most irrational. I can't think of anyone else I would trust more with the powers of the presidency. Beyond her plans, which I mostly approve of, I am talking about keeping us safe.
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fkalich
post Oct 14 2016, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 13 2016, 11:24 PM) *
No politician (or person in office) cares about you the individual. They can't. At their most altruistic they have a constituency to serve. Whoever thinks that a politician gives a shit about them (the individual) is an idiot. Politics is a cross between 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' and 'A Face In the Crowd'. *If you haven't seen those two movies I suggest watching them one after another. Add in 'Elmer Gantry' for extra credit.

For me personally, it comes down to experience.
At the end of the day, the President of the United States of America, is not an entry level position.

I say she takes it over the Donald by 6%.


I agree mostly, but not entirely. You are a bit too cynical. Some politicians have some decency in them. They are just like the rest of us in that way. I really think that Clinton has some morals. I don't think Trump has any. It is just like in my own world, some people have some morals, some don't seem to. And to tell you the truth, I have not seen where having a religion or being an atheist matters in that regard.

I hope you are right about Clinton winning. I expect she will. But the prospect of Trump is so terrifying. I don't mean to be an elitist, but I have read so much history in my life, I see us as being in serious danger, even mortal danger should Trump be elected. Listen to what he said about McCain and Ryan. He said that he will be able to control them. That tells you a lot about what he intends to try and do, to try and turn the Presidency into something like what Putin has. Perhaps our Constitution would protect us, but still it is all pretty frightening.

I am so disappointed in America, I thought we were better than this. It should not be your projected 6% margin of victory. Someone like Trump should be getting no more than 5% of the vote.

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klasaine
post Oct 14 2016, 03:05 PM
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Cynically optimistic I like to say laugh.gif

I predict 6% because I'm a cautious gambler. I won't be surprised if it's a slaughter, say 20%.

As for being shocked or surprised or embarrassed about a candidate hell, we re-elected both Nixon and George W. Plenty of first world countries have (recently) had idiots at the helm. Talk to Italy. How about Brexit? Russia?
If the Donald actually gets elected then maybe we'll be the laughing stock of the western world, but I don't think that's gonna happen. The loser gets forgotten. I'd like to see a study or article on failed presidential candidates (that got a lot of votes). Didn't Eugene Debs run from prison in the mid 20s? Aaron Burr (1800) - independently tried to take Mexico and he eventually killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel. Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, both staunch segregationists, ran strong campaigns for the presidency.

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fkalich
post Oct 14 2016, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 14 2016, 09:05 AM) *
Cynically optimistic I like to say laugh.gif

I predict 6% because I'm a cautious gambler. I won't be surprised if it's a slaughter, say 20%.

As for being shocked or surprised or embarrassed about a candidate hell, we re-elected both Nixon and George W. Plenty of first world countries have (recently) had idiots at the helm. Talk to Italy. How about Brexit? Russia?
If the Donald actually gets elected then maybe we'll be the laughing stock of the western world, but I don't think that's gonna happen. The loser gets forgotten. I'd like to see a study or article on failed presidential candidates (that got a lot of votes). Didn't Eugene Debs run from prison in the mid 20s? Aaron Burr (1800) - independently tried to take Mexico and he eventually killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel. Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, both staunch segregationists, ran strong campaigns for the presidency.


Actually I think you are making sense there, hopefully I am reacting too much to media comments. I don't know though. He really is an idiot, and somewhat deranged. That is not a politically biased opinion. He is a very ignorant man, he never reads books, never has. Even George Bush was a reader, all presidents that I know of were readers. You may have seen my post where candidates responded to a questionnaire, based on input from institutions representing 10 million scientists and engineers, and he scored 7 points out of 100. Do you think he would do any better than that on an American history test? Hell the guy thinks Douglas MacArthur is a hero. You have to look around hard to find historians who don't hold MacArthur in contempt. He probably picked that up when he was marching around in his uniform at boarding school. He is a very ignorant man, and he is deranged. I think he is more dangerous than a lot of people imagine. You know, German politicians thought the same of Hitler, that he was nuts but they could control him. People are thinking the same of Trump, that once elected he will get on more an even keel. I am not sure of that, I could see him doing the same kind of things to get his way that he is doing now to try and get elected. It would not end well. Hopefully we don't have to find out.

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