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> How Do I Match Two Tracks Bpm In Reaper?
Phil66
post Oct 22 2016, 08:30 PM
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Hello folks.

I'm learning Highway To Hell which has an offbeat rhythm. I can play along with the studio version but I want to practise with a backing track.

I've found a backing track but it is ever so slightly slower than the original. My problem is, I want to record myself playing over the backing track and then play my track back along with the original to check my timing. This isn't possible with the two tracks being slightly different.

Is there a way to match the two tracks' BPM? This is a similar question to THIS one that Scott managed to sort out but I still don't understand how it worked unsure.gif

Here are the two tracks, I pulled them both from uTube and converted them to MP3. If you match the first drum beat on each track and listen it goes out of sync pretty quickly. I need to make them the same somehow.

Attached File  ACDC___Highway_to_Hell___YouTube.mp3 ( 3.19MB ) Number of downloads: 44


Attached File  AC_DC_highway_to_hell_guitar_backing_track_with_vocals___You.mp3 ( 3.26MB ) Number of downloads: 41


Is there any software to remove the guitar? Something opposite to Riffstation? Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 23 2016, 12:20 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 23 2016, 04:51 PM
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You can download a version without guitars from youtube probably as I've seen just about every track on earth without guitars on youtube. I use an extension called VIDEO DOWNLOADER for firefox (have to use firefox for this to work) and it let's you see what you are downloading with the sample rate.

That's the tricky bit. The original file, say a nice mp3 or aif, may have a a different sample rate than the file you found without guitars. This can cause them to run at different speeds. So by downloading two versions from youtube (one with and one without guitars, as mp4 video files, you can hopefully get the same sample rate even if you have to export one to get it to match the sample rate of the other. This can all be a bit tricky if you have no experience with it. I use adobe premiere which lets me export mp3 files from video files and I can control the bit rate/sample rate and import that to my daw.


Speaking of DAWS, your daw may be of some help, I use LOGIC/GARAGE BAND which both let you time stretch tracks, tons of vids on that on youtube s well, but only helpful if using those daws.

Quick and dirty, pick the lowest common denominator between both existing tracks or create one, (e.g. 128k 44.1k mp3)
and both should run at the same time. Assuming of course, that one isn't a "remake track" where folks just re recorded a track to sound like the original.

I see what you want here I think, being able to turn on and off the guitars, using tracks already on hand. It's often not that easy sadly. Sometimes it is though smile.gif Hopefully one of these will help. If not, I'd honestly suggest, playing with the the original track and recording your part over top of it and listening back. If you are playing way out of place, you should be able to hear it smile.gif Not perfect of course, but even doing that will help you develop your ear, more so than playing over tracks without guitar as you don't have to discern which one is you if you are the only guitar on the tracks.

Howeveryou can use free software called audacity to sorta remove the guitars from the original track and just use the original and the new one. Here is a vid.

Hope some of this helps smile.gif

Todd
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 22 2016, 03:30 PM) *
Hello folks.

I'm learning Highway To Hell which has an offbeat rhythm. I can play along with the studio version but I want to practise with a backing track.

I've found a backing track but it is ever so slightly slower than the original. My problem is, I want to record myself playing over the backing track and then play my track back along with the original to check my timing. This isn't possible with the two tracks being slightly different.

Is there a way to match the two tracks' BPM? This is a similar question to THIS one that Scott managed to sort out but I still don't understand how it worked unsure.gif

Here are the two tracks, I pulled them both from uTube and converted them to MP3. If you match the first drum beat on each track and listen it goes out of sync pretty quickly. I need to make them the same somehow.

Attached File  ACDC___Highway_to_Hell___YouTube.mp3 ( 3.19MB ) Number of downloads: 44


Attached File  AC_DC_highway_to_hell_guitar_backing_track_with_vocals___You.mp3 ( 3.26MB ) Number of downloads: 41


Is there any software to remove the guitar? Something opposite to Riffstation? Cheers


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 23 2016, 04:59 PM


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Phil66
post Oct 23 2016, 05:20 PM
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Thanks Todd,

I have already downloaded and converted both tracks to MP3 using Video Download Helper, but listening to the track without the guitars I noticed that ain't Bon Scott singing so it is a re-recorded version by someone else.

I know it's best to develop my ear by playing along without a reference guitar BUT, I have no way of knowing how close/far I am off without playing back against the original. In my DAW I want the original in Track 1, the guitarless in Track 2 and me in Track 3. What I have done so far is have the original AND the guitarless running but I have a fade out on the original once the drums get going, just to start me off for now BUT, I can't play them back together because of the mismatch in BPM.

I'll check out that Audacity thing ASAP.

Cheers

Phil


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 23 2016, 05:35 PM
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Happy to help smile.gif Hope audacity does the trick, you will still hear some guitars but it should get rid of most. Yeah, often it's a remake when you find one without guitars/drums or what not smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 23 2016, 12:20 PM) *
Thanks Todd,

I have already downloaded and converted both tracks to MP3 using Video Download Helper, but listening to the track without the guitars I noticed that ain't Bon Scott singing so it is a re-recorded version by someone else.

I know it's best to develop my ear by playing along without a reference guitar BUT, I have no way of knowing how close/far I am off without playing back against the original. In my DAW I want the original in Track 1, the guitarless in Track 2 and me in Track 3. What I have done so far is have the original AND the guitarless running but I have a fade out on the original once the drums get going, just to start me off for now BUT, I can't play them back together because of the mismatch in BPM.

I'll check out that Audacity thing ASAP.

Cheers

Phil



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Sensible Jones
post Oct 23 2016, 05:55 PM
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This might help Phil:-


Or

If you can get the BPM of one Track correct then you should be able to shrink/stretch the other track to suit. You may have to open the 2nd one as a new project to change the BPM but once it's done and saved it should synch up with the other perfectly.
If not do a search for 'Tempo Mapping in Reaper' on youtube and you should find what you need!
smile.gif

This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Oct 23 2016, 06:02 PM


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Phil66
post Oct 23 2016, 06:09 PM
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Thanks Todd and Mr Jones smile.gif

You know? I was just having some fodder and it crossed my mind that I might be able to manipulate the oddball track in a new project and save it with the correct tempo then import into my proper project. Great minds think alike eh Mr Jones?

I must need to change a setting somewhere because when I alter the BPM the track moves with it, ie; it slows down or speeds up to match the BPM change, on the video his track stays static and the BPM bar moves.

Reaper forum hasn't even replied yet rolleyes.gif

Cheers

UPDATE:

I managed to alter the BPM BUT it's weird. I had to keep on deleting the track, altering the BPM and importing until I found a match but look at these two pics. The click is pretty much bang on and as soon as the drum starts it goes out of sync pretty quickly. I tried the Audacity thing but couldn't get it to work at all sad.gif





This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 23 2016, 06:59 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 24 2016, 05:14 PM
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Hi Phil, I don't use Reaper, but in Cubase and Nuendo, there is a setting that has a "quarter note" which allows you to change tempo of the project without alternating wavs.

Check it out:

Attached Image


You should find something similar in Reaper, don't you?



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Phil66
post Oct 24 2016, 05:29 PM
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Thanks Gab

I did manage to do it BUT if you look at the update it all went a bit weird. I think I'll have to just use a click track.

Cheers


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Mertay
post Oct 24 2016, 10:51 PM
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My guess is since they're ripped from youtube the times have slightly changed. Change is like instead of 110 it went to 111.9843 so that might be the reason you can't nail the right value even in detail (probably a DAW can't do this either as its super small sample based not proper metronome timing)...

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 24 2016, 10:52 PM


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bleez
post Oct 25 2016, 06:47 AM
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is the 'no guitar' track a cover and youre trying to match it to the original?
I dont know if thats gonna happen. Probably neither bands are playing to a click so either one or both bands change tempo slightly as they play ( probably ACDC cool.gif ). Just the dynamics of a live band. It sounds like they are a good match until the second verse then there are slight changes which push them slightly off.
I'll wager they are not bang on tempo through the whole song.


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Phil66
post Oct 25 2016, 07:29 PM
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Yeah thanks Scott smile.gif

I'm beginning to realise that. One of the people on the Reaper forum said, "Alt+Left Mouse on the end of the item and drag to length. This is of course assuming it has a constant tempo (big assumption considering the age of the original).

But for reference here is a video explaining how to do it more in depth with individual transients which will take more time than I have sad.gif.
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/videos.php#AqsIBFjcM_4

Cheers buddy.


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bleez
post Oct 25 2016, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2016, 07:29 PM) *
Yeah thanks Scott smile.gif

I'm beginning to realise that. One of the people on the Reaper forum said, "Alt+Left Mouse on the end of the item and drag to length. This is of course assuming it has a constant tempo (big assumption considering the age of the original).

But for reference here is a video explaining how to do it more in depth with individual transients which will take more time than I have sad.gif.
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/videos.php#AqsIBFjcM_4

Cheers buddy.

thanks for posting that vid. Its quite interesting. A little while ago I was trying to put some guitar and drums onto a Gaelic folk song ( in my head it sounded awesome! ) but there were no drums in the original so the timing was a tad 'dynamic' cool.gif much like your ACDC thing. Maybe that stretch marker deal might help, I might give it a shot sometime smile.gif
BTW is it just me or does the guy in that video sound a bit like Christopher Walken biggrin.gif


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Phil66
post Oct 25 2016, 08:43 PM
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Yeah he does smile.gif

I've just realised what you said in a previous post. You said that the tracks aren't too bad until verse 2, When I play them they are out before the singing starts. Some weird voodoo going on here unsure.gif

Have a listen: Attached File  sync.mp3 ( 8.13MB ) Number of downloads: 12


QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 24 2016, 10:51 PM) *
My guess is since they're ripped from youtube the times have slightly changed. Change is like instead of 110 it went to 111.9843 so that might be the reason you can't nail the right value even in detail (probably a DAW can't do this either as its super small sample based not proper metronome timing)...


Sorry Mertay, I missed this one. Yeah I think you're right

This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 25 2016, 08:44 PM


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post Oct 25 2016, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2016, 08:39 PM) *
Yeah he does smile.gif

I've just realised what you said in a previous post. You said that the tracks aren't too bad until verse 2, When I play them they are out before the singing starts. Some weird voodoo going on here unsure.gif


I messed about with the tracks for a while but I started with the first vocal line. I didnt start from the intro. I managed to get the first verse synced quite well ( to my ears ) but after that they just kinda meander away.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 25 2016, 09:21 PM
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As you suspected, the cover is probably intentionally done to prevent the youtube algorithm from scrubbing it and to help avoid other legal entanglements. So it is going to be a challenge to make it match as it was never built to match. I have seen some fine suggestions here smile.gif Sadly it seems none are going to be able to get around the original intent of the cover song to be different than the original song. I hope you find a way forward that doesn't frustrate the crap out of you as that's no fun. What are you leaning towards at this point?

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2016, 03:43 PM) *
Yeah he does smile.gif

I've just realised what you said in a previous post. You said that the tracks aren't too bad until verse 2, When I play them they are out before the singing starts. Some weird voodoo going on here unsure.gif

Have a listen: Attached File  sync.mp3 ( 8.13MB ) Number of downloads: 12




Sorry Mertay, I missed this one. Yeah I think you're right


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Phil66
post Oct 25 2016, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 25 2016, 09:21 PM) *
What are you leaning towards at this point?

Todd


Thanks Todd

In what way do you mean? smile.gif

Cheers


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 26 2016, 04:20 AM
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In terms of the solutions provided and options open to you in your track synch issues?


Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2016, 05:10 PM) *
Thanks Todd

In what way do you mean? smile.gif

Cheers


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Phil66
post Oct 26 2016, 09:56 PM
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Ahhh,

I don't really know to be honest. I can't put a click track up to record my playing/timing, well I can but I can't use it to assess myself against the original. So I don't really know what to do. I guess I'll just play along with the "guitar free" track and get Gab to assess me.

At the moment though, I'm practising coming back in with the rhythm after the chorus, it's a bit tricky. All I'm playing for the chorus at the moment is the A chord to the syllables of the words "high-way-to-hell" biggrin.gif then trying to come back in with the rhythm.

Cheers Todd smile.gif


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