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> Poll: Should Political Topics Be Disallowed At Gmc?
Political discussion
Should political topic discussions be disallowed in the GMC forum?
Yes [ 10 ] ** [50.00%]
No [ 10 ] ** [50.00%]
Total Votes: 20
  
Ben Higgins
post Nov 1 2016, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 29 2016, 06:06 PM) *
I'm for posting a poll WITH every "Political" post with a simple, is this post appropriate for GMC YES/NO. Simple eh? If it gets some NO votes, the admins can just get rid of it as not appropriate for GMC.


I don't think we even need to go that far, tbh T-Master. I think if a thread is inappropriate for whatever reason or a thread deteriorates into one, then it'll just get closed down naturally anyway.

Thing is, nobody has to read or participate in a particular thread if it's political or they're uninterested. If it's a thread that is so obviously offensive then it would get closed down anyway but if we preface every discussion which may or may not present views that may be contrasting to what somebody believes with a 'is this ok or not?' then we're treading on eggshells all the time.

It's a hard balance between showing respect in this age and pandering to 'generation snowflake' as they're coming to be known as wink.gif

I think a lot of it comes down to intent. If you post something, knowing deep inside, that your reasons for doing so is to rile people and get some fireworks then you reap what you sow. If you post something with the intent of genuinely being interested in other people's views, which may be different to you own, and also being open to the idea that you might learn something new and thus alter your beliefs, then that's different. Those threads will naturally carry a different tone.

QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 1 2016, 05:41 AM) *
Hell I'm old, and I don't feel offended by the second chart.

[attachment=45428:men_with..._degrees.png]

[attachment=45429:younger_...port_tru.png]


And I also don't feel offended by the modern assumption that the younger (including college / uni educated) groups (taken to be synonymous with 'enlightened') are expected and 'supposed' to side with leftist leaning politics.

I'm outside the age group of what would classed as a millennial but most of my generation (if social media is to be believed) automatically fawn towards the left and whatever hot social justice topic is in the news. By rights, I should be the same. I'm not. I'm glad of that.

I don't subscribe to this fallacy that the left have the monopoly on morality. We all have morals, we just might hold certain moral traits higher than others. The left seem to value the idea of equality above all else. Stick it to the 'man', whoever that might be. The right seem to value things like responsibility, accountability.

All of those moral values are worthy, surely? But if it comes down to being realistic, the idea of equality is something that sounds wonderful when you're 18 and trying to find out who you are. As you get older you realise that so many of the world's ills like unplanned pregnancy, unwanted children, broken homes, unemployment are increased due to people absolutely refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.

Now I don't know what you think is more important.. the idea that everyone gets treated like they're their own special snowflake? Or people stop making excuses and get on with life like the rest of us have to. That's responsibility and I'm sorry but that's where I think the right have it... err.. right wink.gif

Oh and as for Trump v Clinton? I don't think you guys have ever had a worse choice. Trump is an arrogant sumbitch and like Ken said, POTUS isn't exactly an entry level job. However, there's no getting away from the fact that Clinton is a criminal and a liar.

Trump is the sort of guy who you know would happily shaft you on a deal. Clinton is the sort of person who'd easily order your untimely death. Trump may be narcissistic but if it's sociopathic you're looking for, Hillary's far more insidious. She's more ruthless than Trump. Ironically that may be what you need in the POTUS but is it the kind of person you'd want at the top? It's just a question of which liar you want. Same choice we get every few years wink.gif

I know this has gone OT but I said nothing in any of the other political threads so those are my thoughts and I'll leave it and stick with the guitar and foods threads tongue.gif DONUTS, anyone?

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Nov 1 2016, 10:13 AM


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Mertay
post Nov 1 2016, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 1 2016, 09:10 AM) *
Oh and as for Trump v Clinton? I don't think you guys have ever had a worse choice.


Agreed, although its not different in any other countrys (I never voted for someone truly believing in him/her) from a far perspective these candidates and their "show" is spiritually poisoning Americans.

Only one more week and then things will be as usual, no one should forget about that before posting something cause its not worth hurt/insulting anyone through their opinions.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Nov 1 2016, 12:31 PM


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AK Rich
post Nov 1 2016, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Oct 31 2016, 09:41 PM) *
Why is it immature to state facts? Are we supposed to ignore the implications of this? And I think myself and others made it clear that we were talking about averages, medians, bell curves, not about individuals with the statistics. And averages, medians, bell curves are what matters, not individual data points. Hell I'm old, and I don't feel offended by the second chart.

[attachment=45428:men_with..._degrees.png]

[attachment=45429:younger_...port_tru.png]


So, what is your point in stating these "facts" and what "implications" are you referring to? If there is no point, then why bring it up?
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klasaine
post Nov 1 2016, 08:16 PM
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As per my initial comment in this thread, I think that posting - in a guitar lessons forum - with the intent to provoke, is pretty unnecessary here.

I know it's the 'chill out' section. But 1) this isn't very chill (when it gets political) and 2) again, it's a guitar forum. Shouldn't the chill out section (of a guitar forum) be more about concerts, food, pictures of your guitars, vacations and your dogs, etc. I don't know, it just seems to me that there are SO MANY other venues for the political stuff - ?

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 1 2016, 08:17 PM


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Rammikin
post Nov 1 2016, 08:51 PM
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^ This ^

If you look at the last couple of troll threads in the chillout section, one ended up with a member suspension and the other was locked. What more evidence does anyone need that those threads are harmful to the forum?



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klasaine
post Nov 2 2016, 12:42 AM
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Though I do appreciate that it is no doubt amusing for the Europeans to watch us Americans make asses of ourselves.


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fkalich
post Nov 2 2016, 07:06 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 1 2016, 09:58 AM) *
So, what is your point in stating these "facts" and what "implications" are you referring to? If there is no point, then why bring it up?


The implication is that among Trump supporters average historical illiteracy must be low. In my experience those who do not at least pursue higher education also do not independently read the books that would substitute for that. The corollary to that is a person's grasp of political realities is limited by their level of historical literacy.

I don't think most people, those who even hold Trump in contempt, fully grasp what a danger he is to all of us. Not just to the US, to the entire world. The American Constitution established a head of state with tremendous power, much more power and authority than you find in parliamentary forms of government. How anyone can think of Clinton, who would be pretty predictable as President, just much like Obama, how anyone can think that the narcissistic psychopath is not infinitely more dangerous for the world, it just blows me away.

For 44 presidencies was have had elections where qualified candidates fought, often bitterly fought. But in all instances they were qualified contestants. Perhaps other than with Warren G. Harding. However nothing much was happening then for him to screw up. Only in this modern bizarre Reality TV world do we now have a candidate running who is absolutely unqualified to hold the office, who has no other motivation but to pursue his own personal aggrandizement, who would do anything, say anything, take any position and reverse it the next day if necessary, to accomplish what he desires for himself, to be the American "silver backed gorilla".

I am mortified that so many Americans have fallen for this, the man has no principles whatever, other than his lust for power, fame, and wealth. If he is elected, they will soon enough realize their error, just as those who supported the invasion of Iraq had to if they were honest enough to admit that they supported Bush's war. But we will pay a hell of a bigger price tag if Trump is elected than the one George W. Bush passed on to us.

For this same perspective on Trump from a historian who unlike myself *is* renowned and well known, look and listen to the segment of Ken Burns speech at Stanford University concerning Trump, and/or interviews with him after that speech.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Nov 2 2016, 08:53 AM
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AK Rich
post Nov 3 2016, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 1 2016, 10:06 PM) *
The implication is that among Trump supporters average historical illiteracy must be low. In my experience those who do not at least pursue higher education also do not independently read the books that would substitute for that. The corollary to that is a person's grasp of political realities is limited by their level of historical literacy.

I don't think most people, those who even hold Trump in contempt, fully grasp what a danger he is to all of us. Not just to the US, to the entire world. The American Constitution established a head of state with tremendous power, much more power and authority than you find in parliamentary forms of government. How anyone can think of Clinton, who would be pretty predictable as President, just much like Obama, how anyone can think that the narcissistic psychopath is not infinitely more dangerous for the world, it just blows me away.

For 44 presidencies was have had elections where qualified candidates fought, often bitterly fought. But in all instances they were qualified contestants. Perhaps other than with Warren G. Harding. However nothing much was happening then for him to screw up. Only in this modern bizarre Reality TV world do we now have a candidate running who is absolutely unqualified to hold the office, who has no other motivation but to pursue his own personal aggrandizement, who would do anything, say anything, take any position and reverse it the next day if necessary, to accomplish what he desires for himself, to be the American "silver backed gorilla".

I am mortified that so many Americans have fallen for this, the man has no principles whatever, other than his lust for power, fame, and wealth. If he is elected, they will soon enough realize their error, just as those who supported the invasion of Iraq had to if they were honest enough to admit that they supported Bush's war. But we will pay a hell of a bigger price tag if Trump is elected than the one George W. Bush passed on to us.

For this same perspective on Trump from a historian who unlike myself *is* renowned and well known, look and listen to the segment of Ken Burns speech at Stanford University concerning Trump, and/or interviews with him after that speech.


Interesting. I think Trump supporters are indeed looking at history in making their decision. Recent history tells them we are on the wrong path. But we can also look at history to see what happens when a member of a crime family (Mugabe etc.)is the leader of a country when considering Clinton. And Trump supporters don't want our Gov to do business in a way that is similar to the mafia.

I am not sure how a documentary filmmaker with a Bachelors Degree in the Arts in film study and design qualifies as a Renown Historian (maybe I missed something in his bio) but I watched the speech anyway. What was interesting to me was that I could insert the name Obama in place of Trump in many of the things he said in that speech, narcissistic, wannabe dictator, etc.

Did you see Peter Thiel's speech to the National Press Club recently where he spoke of why people support Trump? Peter Thiel attended Stanford and has a BA in Philosophy.



This post has been edited by AK Rich: Nov 4 2016, 02:24 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 5 2016, 05:13 AM
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I have to agree as well smile.gif I vote for a KILL OR KEEP poll required above any political related post. That way, we can give it the old "THREE STRIKES AND YOUR OUT". Three folks vote NOPE for any reason they like and the thread locks and deletes. How about that?

It would keep the thread from becoming obnoxious and if it's too late, it would at least delete it so as to keep it from being obnoxious to future readers? I'm not for censorship as such, but I'm all for NOT being obnoxious in a forum that should be positive and about mostly guitar smile.gif

P.S. I do agree with Peter Thiel on one thing, FREE COLLEGE TUITION smile.gif (We have thousands of M1 Battle Tanks rusting in the california dessert, let's stop pouring money in tanks the Army says it doesn't need and educate our young people instead)
Todd


QUOTE (yoncopin @ Oct 29 2016, 09:10 PM) *
This is exactly how I feel about it too, you couldn't have worded it better Rammikin. It mostly just bums me out, I don't visit GMC to read that junk.


Great post and I can't believe I somehow missed it!!! I Did come up with a second version, a "Three Strikes and your out" sort of thing (works for baseball, why not politics? smile.gif )
Just to give folks the chance to shut down a thread pro actively before management has to step in and make the call. Sort of self policing ourselves as it were. Also, everything written on GMC is searchable on google so hopefully, searches reveal GMC to be what I hope it to be, a great place for folks to come together and discuss, in civil terms, how they think/feel about any subject on earth without malice and or name calling. If we want malice/name calling, we can go to sevenstring.org smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 1 2016, 05:10 AM) *
I don't think we even need to go that far, tbh T-Master. I think if a thread is inappropriate for w..


I hate to say it, but yes. You are 100 percent correct. Two troll (granted that's a perceptual/subjective term, but yes, I'm using it too, and yes, I think it applies) threads both had bad endings. Back to my self policing idea smile.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Nov 1 2016, 03:51 PM) *
^ This ^

If you look at the last couple of troll threads in the chillout section, one ended up with a member suspension and the other was locked. What more evidence does anyone need that those threads are harmful to the forum?


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 5 2016, 05:24 AM


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jstcrsn
post Nov 5 2016, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Nov 1 2016, 08:51 PM) *
^ This ^

If you look at the last couple of troll threads in the chillout section, one ended up with a member suspension and the other was locked. What more evidence does anyone need that those threads are harmful to the forum?

Interesting you view it as a troll thread . It is a very valid and important question and I will ask it of you, is there anything that clinton could do that would make you wonder , a line in the sand if you will. If there is no line she could cross (that would make you wonder ) why then would you think it would be logical for me to want to work " across the aisle " with someone with that mindset ? . If any means is worth your end , does that set well with you.

As far as trolling goes, to that thread . the responses it received ( not naming names so it won't be personal ) was not a response to a very valid question , but a unproven rhetoric slamming the other side.
THAT IS TROLLING . and that is the reason Kris to shutting it down , is cause everyone started trolling and not answering the thread

I don't care about threads getting off subject or trolling as long as it is truth
Just cause it is of a different opinion than yours , that does not make it trolling

as far as me getting suspended , I was responding to attitudes of people constantly demeaning a large part of the people of this nation and then turning around and talking about how virtuous and accepting they are. I was pissed and pressed submit while I was angry . I can admit my wrong doing and take make punishment (

), but I think you might be stretching as to why it got shut down

[quote name='Todd Simpson' date='Nov 5 2016, 05:13 AM' post='740359']
I have to agree as well smile.gif I vote for a KILL OR KEEP poll required above any political related post. That way, we can give it the old "THREE STRIKES AND YOUR OUT". Three folks vote NOPE for any reason they like and the thread locks and deletes. How about that?


Have you really thought this idea thru ?

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Nov 5 2016, 09:21 PM
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jstcrsn
post Nov 5 2016, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 2 2016, 07:06 AM) *
I am mortified that so many Americans have fallen for this, the man has no principles whatever, other than his lust for power, fame, and wealth. If he is elected, they will soon enough realize their error, just as those who supported the invasion of Iraq had to if they were honest enough to admit that they supported Bush's war. But we will pay a hell of a bigger price tag if Trump is elected than the one George W. Bush passed on to us.

You could easily Replace Trump With Hillary , of course you would have to add, voted for Iraq, under FB I investigation for mishandling classified documents, and dead ambassador after said ambassador had hundreds of requests for extra security, off course thats not to mention wikileaks, DMC tampering , clinton foundation under pay to play FBI investigations , Humas 650,000 emails found on wieners computer when she was suppose to have turned over all to FBI, The 33,000 Deleated emails we are suppose to trust her about , Bill Clinton meeting with the AG that would indict Hillary or the 650,000$ the wife( of the FBI agent investigating Hillary ) recieved from the clintons , being fed Debate questions , ALL VERIFIABLE ,but I digress
or
The price tag 20 trillion dollars in debt Obama will leave with( are kids will have to pay for)Bushand every president before him left us with 8-9 trillion

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AK Rich
post Nov 5 2016, 05:58 PM
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I just wanted to add another speech that illustrates some reasons why conservatives support Trump. It's not in any way a speech supporting Trump but it illustrates the true reasons why conservatives are supporting him. And here is a hint. It has nothing to do with racism, bigotry or any kind of ethnic phobia. Instead, it has everything to do with restoring the form of government that the framers of the Constitution envisioned.

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Todd Simpson
post Nov 9 2016, 04:29 AM
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I'm watching the CNN/FOX/MSNBC/BBC AMERICAN coverage of the election and it seems journalists are finally figuring out that "Polling Data" has been flat out wrong from day 1 of this race. As of this posting, TRUMP IS WINNING in terms of Electoral College votes. Wow. Never thought I'd see the day. But here we are. As a result

*The Stock Market Futures are down 500 points for the dow before the opening bell
*The Peso is taking a nose dive
*The Price of Gold is spiking up
*The reserve currence (U.S. Dollar) futures are down

In short, the financial markets are quaking in their boots over this. Nobody had good intel it seems, at any of the major investement firms, or broadcasting outlets, etc. Wow did they miss it bad from day one. They all underestimated something CRSN mentioned. ANGER.

Americans are ANGRY, and most of them don't live in Washington D.C., or New York city.
The vast swath of Middle America does not trust politicians at all anymore. Nor the media proper. Folks get their info from their own echo chambers on social media. This is the X FACTOR that didn't get added to the models being used IMHO.

Egad.



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Marek Rojewski
post Nov 9 2016, 07:25 AM
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It was obvious that the pools as always are just leftist lies. It has been like this in almost every western country for the last 20 years. Obviously most of the "free media" is also just someones property and works to further his owners agenda. Anyway lets wait for the official statement who won.


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 9 2016, 08:31 AM
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HILARY JUST CONCEDED via phone. It's confirmed. Egad. TRUMP is our next President. Nuclear war to be scheduled shortly smile.gif


QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Nov 9 2016, 02:25 AM) *
It was obvious that the pools as always are just leftist lies. It has been like this in almost every western country for the last 20 years. Obviously most of the "free media" is also just someones property and works to further his owners agenda. Anyway lets wait for the official statement who won.


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AK Rich
post Nov 9 2016, 09:13 AM
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The Democrats, The Establishment Elite, and the vast majority of the media just got their asses handed to them and karma is in full effect tonight in the USA.
And ironically, California didn't even matter.

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Ben Higgins
post Nov 9 2016, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 9 2016, 03:29 AM) *
They all underestimated something CRSN mentioned.[/size] ANGER.

Americans are ANGRY, and most of them don't live in Washington D.C., or New York city.
The vast swath of Middle America does not trust politicians at all anymore. Nor the media proper. Folks get their info from their own echo chambers on social media. This is the X FACTOR that didn't get added to the models being used IMHO.

Egad.



Exactly. And the anger exists because they're just not getting listened to. If people are marginalised as bigoted, racists, stupid for long enough the politicians and media shouldn't be surprised when a Brexit or a Trump win happens. It doesn't matter if one doesn't agree with it, but it really is unbelievable that so many people pretend they can't understand why it happens.





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fzalfa
post Nov 9 2016, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE
Nuclear war to be scheduled shortly


viewed from here, Clinton 'll surely push the nuke button, Trump seem to be more centered about america than the rest of the world.

Cheers

Laurent


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Wyverex
post Nov 9 2016, 09:29 AM
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QUOTE (fzalfa @ Nov 9 2016, 09:26 AM) *
viewed from here, Clinton 'll surely push the nuke button, Trump seem to be more centered about america than the rest of the world.

Cheers

Laurent


That was my impression as well so far, but time will tell, I guess. It's definitely going to be interesting rolleyes.gif
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Mertay
post Nov 9 2016, 01:26 PM
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GMC survived the elections! I'm glad its finally over laugh.gif



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