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Todd Simpson
post Nov 10 2016, 12:41 PM
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On the positive side, we have a Republican President, Congress, soon to be Supreme Court, etc. It's Right Wing/Republican/whatever label fits govt and for the first time in decades the "GRIDLOCK" is finally broken! WWOOHOOOHOOO!!!!

So we should actually see some real change in various things over the next four years. There is no more Democrat President/Republican Congress problem that has plagued us so long. Also, The election is over. We have our Commander in Chief. One has to respect the office, if not the man. I have high hopes as hope is all one can have at this point.

I look forward to seeing the promises of Making American Great Again, made manifest, as I don't feel we have been "Great" since roughly the 70s in terms of what a "Great Country" should be, take it any way you like.

So congrats to the new administration, all shackles are off. The eyes of the world are on you and I hope we build more bridges, than walls. smile.gif

Todd


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AK Rich
post Nov 10 2016, 03:38 PM
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At least one journalist wants to build bridges. It's a start.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the...-election-2016/
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fkalich
post Nov 10 2016, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 10 2016, 06:41 AM) *
On the positive side, we have a Republican President, Congress, soon to be Supreme Court, etc. It's Right Wing/Republican/whatever label fits govt and for the first time in decades the "GRIDLOCK" is finally broken! WWOOHOOOHOOO!!!!

So we should actually see some real change in various things over the next four years. There is no more Democrat President/Republican Congress problem that has plagued us so long. Also, The election is over. We have our Commander in Chief. One has to respect the office, if not the man. I have high hopes as hope is all one can have at this point.

I look forward to seeing the promises of Making American Great Again, made manifest, as I don't feel we have been "Great" since roughly the 70s in terms of what a "Great Country" should be, take it any way you like.

So congrats to the new administration, all shackles are off. The eyes of the world are on you and I hope we build more bridges, than walls. smile.gif

Todd


I agree with you some, but not exactly. I figure he is president now, he is going to be so for awhile. So I will give him a chance. But if he is going to be a good president, we will find out that he fooled everybody, especially a large proportion of the people who supported him to get him into office. One thing I think we can agree on about Donald Trump, he will use people to get what he wants, and discard them if they become an impediment afterward. So basically my hope is that he is even more of a scoundrel than anyone even imagined.

We will see. But I would not put it past him. I was never fooled by his "Trucker Hat" routine and adulation of the working class song and dance. He was born into wealth and is Ivy educated. I am sure he liked the rock star status he got from them, but he is president elect now, they have served their purpose.

edit: B.t.w., I don't really expect the above to occur, it is just wishful thinking, that this was all a con. My best bet is that Trump is what he seems, deranged, and we will in short order find out how insane it was to let this man even smell the White House. He got 67% of the vote of those without a college degree, compared to 28% for Clinton. We now get to live through a time where we get to face the repercussions of the most ignorant people in America directing our course.

Unless this was a total con by Trump, which is a hope and a prayer, you can forget about unity. Get ready to pay the price we are all going to pay for this. But I have long felt that for the country this may be the best, as it will precipitate the evolution of our society in just a few years to a much more egalitarian social structure, a process that while inevitable, would probably have been set backwards had Clinton been elected. Forget unity, that is a pipe dream, brace for the implosions. When America elected this mad man, our fate was sealed.

Unless this was all a con and all that he said in his campaign was just part of the con. I have not given up all hope of that.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Nov 11 2016, 04:17 AM
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AK Rich
post Nov 11 2016, 04:23 PM
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As it turns out, according to the exit polls, the percentage of voters with a college degree voting for either candidate was pretty even.
It certainly wasn't lopsided.
I guess all that hard work trying to point to Trump supporters as uneducated turned out to be as bogus as the Presidential polling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/pol...ion/exit-polls/

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11...polls.html?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-p...ional/president
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 11 2016, 06:38 PM
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Sadly AKRICH, that is just factually wrong. sad.gif From one of the links you provided, here is the actual number breakdown of voters. It was hugely lopsided in terms of White Men Without College Degrees voting for Trump. It is what it is. It's not an attack, or a condemnation. It just is what it is. It's the factual data on who voted for whom. That's all smile.gif Yes, men without a college degree LOPSIDEDLY voted for trump. Here is a graphic from the link you shared. Just change WOMEN to MEN and you get the following. The Women were about even smile.gif The MEN voting, were simply not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/pol...ion/exit-polls/
Attached Image

Also, from PEW RESEARCH: The overall numbers for folks with/without degrees was the largest gap since 1980 in terms of who they voted for.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/...nder-education/

In the 2016 election, a wide gap in presidential preferences emerged between those with and without a college degree. College graduates backed Clinton by a 9-point margin (52%-43%), while those without a college degree backed Trump 52%-44%. This is by far the widest gap in support among college graduates and non-college graduates in exit polls dating back to 1980.



Now that we have that sorted, smile.gif I do still have a fond hope that the next 4 years see all boats rise, that this administration becomes one that embraces change, difference, tolerance, diversity, and pluralism. The election is over, the ballots are cast. All we can do now is hope for the best smile.gif



QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 11 2016, 11:23 AM) *
As it turns out, according to the exit polls, the percentage of voters with a college degree voting for either candidate was pretty even.
It certainly wasn't lopsided.
I guess all that hard work trying to point to Trump supporters as uneducated turned out to be as bogus as the Presidential polling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/pol...ion/exit-polls/

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11...polls.html?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-p...ional/president


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 11 2016, 06:59 PM


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Marek Rojewski
post Nov 11 2016, 08:30 PM
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Why not use the statistics of black/latino/whatever uneducated race instead? Oh I know! Because it is only good to trashtalk about white people. Everything else could be racism after all.


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Mertay
post Nov 11 2016, 10:15 PM
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What you guys are going through is the begining of a 15 year nightmare here in Turkey smile.gif

You guys probably know if you place a frog in water and slowly enough boil it, the frog won't notice the heat increases and eventually dies. Not anytime soon but slowly it will feel like that, the pressure.


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 11 2016, 10:52 PM
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I"m open to any stats that anyone wants to share smile.gif

The purpose of my post was to try to rebut something that was simply factually not accurate. That's all. No "Trash Talk" was involved. After all, I"m one of the "White People" BTW.

I notice that the tone of your post seems sarcastic as to indicate that any other stats would somehow be claimed as racist? If they used race as a factor? I fear you are heading off in a direction that I certainly wasn't going, but you are certainly welcome to do that wink.gif



QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Nov 11 2016, 03:30 PM) *
Why not use the statistics of black/latino/whatever uneducated race instead? Oh I know! Because it is only good to trashtalk about white people. Everything else could be racism after all.



Very sorry to see what's happening in Turkey. I watch BBC news and they do cover the entire globe which is not something we get that much of in our other news outlets. BBC always does a great job of globe trotting IMHO smile.gif Turkey's situation seems like a warning to other countries. Don't let your leaders get too secure, otherwise, you may end up with something like they have in Syria.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 11 2016, 05:15 PM) *
What you guys are going through is the begining of a 15 year nightmare here in Turkey smile.gif

You guys probably know if you place a frog in water and slowly enough boil it, the frog won't notice the heat increases and eventually dies. Not anytime soon but slowly it will feel like that, the pressure.



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klasaine
post Nov 11 2016, 10:53 PM
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California is (and voted) overwhelmingly democratic. Even in Cali's bastion of conservatism - Orange County - they voted 'blue' for president, though retaining their Republican congressional reps. Having said that,

I know several Trump supporters that do not at all fit the uneducated white guy profile. Quite the opposite really. And I'm happy to say that we're all still friends (and that was never in question). Their particular motivation was mostly "throw the bums out" and another Clinton administration just looked to them like the same old, same old. I personally don't align with that but I get their POV.

I can tell you this ... I am totally re-evaluating my ability to separate the seed from the chaff. I fell for all the media hype about the Dems having it in the bag. I got duped ... all by myself and I'm not gonna blame anyone or anything. The media is what the media is. I need to get smarter about how I view it. Mr. Trump did an AMAZING job of manipulating it and by extension - us. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way. After my initial shock and stun - I'm rather fascinated!

Anyway, it's an election. There's always another one.


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Rammikin
post Nov 11 2016, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 11 2016, 09:53 PM) *
I fell for all the media hype about the Dems having it in the bag.



I've seen a lot of people saying that, but with a few exceptions, I don't think the probabilities that were cited before the election were out of line with a Trump victory. fivethirtyeight.com predicted his chances of winning about the same as the cubs winning the series after game 5, and we know how that turned out smile.gif.

One thing worth noting: this makes six out of the past seven presidential elections where the democrats have won the popular vote.




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Mertay
post Nov 11 2016, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 11 2016, 09:52 PM) *
Very sorry to see what's happening in Turkey. I watch BBC news and they do cover the entire globe which is not something we get that much of in our other news outlets. BBC always does a great job of globe trotting IMHO smile.gif Turkey's situation seems like a warning to other countries. Don't let your leaders get too secure, otherwise, you may end up with something like they have in Syria.


If Trump and such ideology alternates continues after him, trust me no country is strong enough to be safe.

From my point of view Americans willingly made an economic gamble, such politicians do anything for prosperity as taking unorthodox risks. This can actually work, worked for a while here I'll admit but not for the common people but for the rich. Employment rates never means wealth, supporters must be kept in dept so they can be radical enough for the next elections wink.gif Oh and people will get tricky question to reveal their political view on job applications...

The most important this 4 years is to preserve your legal rights as good as possible. Trump supporters will start pressuring various races and sex of citizens, even at small scale incidents responce must be immence.

Trump on the long run might work better for my country with relations to USA (it pretty bad these days) but I hate this feeling of watching the same terrible movie again sad.gif


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jstcrsn
post Nov 12 2016, 01:00 AM
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do you really want to build a bridge, because by your responses , it still seems your views you had before of trump supporters have not changed. Your platitudes are vague at best , " will give him a shot " , a shot at what ? Doing the things that Hillary would have done , and then when he doesn't do those things and instead does things that got him elected, Are you going to cry foul and say , " well , we gave him a chance " .Building bridges requires you to honestly look at how we have been treated and realizing that there might have been another reason ,( other than racist , sexist , homophobic trump supporters )to are views than what has been assumed.

Should we Build Bridges like Obama did ,


he said this to get elected , but how many executive orders did he use
Building bridges is not what democrats are known for doing , it just seems weird that now we should all work together

I am all for coming together as people , but lets see how the other side wants to work
give me some examples , can we agree Obamacare needs a big overhaul, NAFTA didnt work like we planned

lets start the dialogue with specifics not platitudes
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AK Rich
post Nov 12 2016, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 11 2016, 09:38 AM) *
Sadly AKRICH, that is just factually wrong. sad.gif From one of the links you provided, here is the actual number breakdown of voters. It was hugely lopsided in terms of White Men Without College Degrees voting for Trump. It is what it is. It's not an attack, or a condemnation. It just is what it is. It's the factual data on who voted for whom. That's all smile.gif Yes, men without a college degree LOPSIDEDLY voted for trump. Here is a graphic from the link you shared. Just change WOMEN to MEN and you get the following. The Women were about even smile.gif The MEN voting, were simply not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/pol...ion/exit-polls/
Attached Image

Also, from PEW RESEARCH: The overall numbers for folks with/without degrees was the largest gap since 1980 in terms of who they voted for.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/...nder-education/

In the 2016 election, a wide gap in presidential preferences emerged between those with and without a college degree. College graduates backed Clinton by a 9-point margin (52%-43%), while those without a college degree backed Trump 52%-44%. This is by far the widest gap in support among college graduates and non-college graduates in exit polls dating back to 1980.



Now that we have that sorted, smile.gif I do still have a fond hope that the next 4 years see all boats rise, that this administration becomes one that embraces change, difference, tolerance, diversity, and pluralism. The election is over, the ballots are cast. All we can do now is hope for the best smile.gif


My bad, I should have said college graduates, which was 45% for Trump and 49% for Clinton which is not lopsided at all. Then if you look at folks with some college/assoc. degree it is 52% Trump, 43% Clinton.
And finally HS grads at 51% Trump 45% Clinton. Seems pretty even to me and again, a bit of a gap here but certainly not lopsided.

Simply click the link and scroll down to Education.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/pol...ion/exit-polls/

The NYT has it at 49% Trump to 45% Clinton for white college grads. Lopsided? I don't think so.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11...polls.html?_r=1

CNN has it at 45% Trump and 49% Clinton for college grads.

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-p...ional/president

The point of FACT is that people considered EDUCATED voted pretty EVENLY for the most part between the two.

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Nov 12 2016, 06:54 PM
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Spock
post Nov 12 2016, 11:31 AM
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A message my boss wrote that sums everything up perfectly about why Trump won...

"My observation of this election cycle.

History has shown us that the USA has "ebbed and flowed" on liberal vs conservative policy both social and fiscal since our founding. Fortunately, the democratic process gives "we the people" power to hire and fire our leaders.

Historically, it’s hard for the party of a two term presidents to carry the next election. We get tired easily and want change, this has been the case after most 2 term presidents in our lifetime, with exception of Regan and Bush 41 (who only got one term). It happened after 8 years of Neo-Con Bush 43, the people wanted "hope and change" and voted in Obama not once, but twice. Love him or hate him, Obama move the country way too far left, and the people spoke that they wanted more right of center." By the way, most the "main street media" and liberal talking heads say, "white middle class America" don’t like Obama because he is black, or Hillary… give me a freaking break! Anyone that disagrees with liberal thought is not tolerated and called, “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamaphobic, you name it,” and yet they call themselves tolerant of others! B.S.

A side note, traditionally mid-term congressional elections for 1st and 2nd term presidents usually don’t go well for the party of the sitting President. I would expect the same to happen in two years as the electorate usually likes a divided government for checks and balance. So Trump and the GOP have a very small window to prove they can do something that the populists want. If he is ineffective he will be a one term president too.

As much as the TV talking heads and political pundits wanted to make this election about the flawed personalities and character of Trump vs. Hillary, the people saw something much bigger. The MSM wanted to make it about Hillary being the first woman president. The informed voters do not care what race or sex the candidate is, they vote on the candidate’s vision for policy that will govern us.

This was about ideological differences. This election was a populist movement railing against the establishment in both parties as well as the ultra liberal "main stream media" who try to control our thoughts by reporting opinion instead of facts. People are sick of the political class ruling us with empty promises and complex solutions to simple issues. For example, we cannot spend ourselves out of debt! Our government cannot continue to pile up the debt like under Obama and not collapse the system. Many including myself feel that this is part of the liberal agenda to collapse our system to push us towards a "New World Order" / "One World Government". Just study the undisputed heroes of Hillary and Obama: Saul Alinsky, Cloward and Piven, etc. This is the ideology of Hillary and the people spoke, "they want no more." In my opinion, Bill was not a dogmatic, ideologue like Hillary, he just liked the power, money and of course the other perks! wink.gif They made a career of power and politics… it’s got to be addicting!

Donald Trump’s election was a repudiation of business as usual in Washington. He rode to victory on an anti-establishment platform, and the result shows that the American people are tired of corrupt insider dealing in Washington.

This was a referendum and direct repudiation of the progressive liberal polices that are not common sense and do not help all Americans. For example, ramming ACA / Obamacare down our throats when the majority of people did not want it. Passing huge bills into law without even reading them is a direct insult to the American voter. It’s more regulations, more controlling laws and restrictions to our liberties. These are the things voters voted against!

It was a referendum to keep America Safer, by securing our boarders, getting rid of sanctuary cities, and bringing law and order back to a broken immigration system. It’s calling terrorists what they are, "Radical Islamists". It’s stop funding both sides of conflicts, it’s stop trying to fix the worlds issues, when we have veterans that can’t get decent health care. These are common sense issues that both sides should agree on, but for some reason can’t.

This election was an indictment of the corrupt, "pay for play" that runs rampant at every level of our government, the liberal media, and global elitists! It’s a revolt against the media’s "false narratives" trying to divide us all. It’s a revolution of the common man against crony capitalism and wall street hedge fund managers skimming the system, it’s a direct retaliation to the The 3 Branches of our shadow Government: Financial; Petrochemical; and Pharmaceutical.

Our system was not designed to have a system of political elite, controlled by corporate unelected bureaucracies . Although, that is what has happened in both parties with Bush’s and Clinton’s. "We the people" are sick of this and want new leaders to push through but, until now they haven’t been able to because the establishment in both parties are controlled by the "old guard" of corrupted party leaders who are totally "bought and paid for" by huge money from special interest / lobbyists. Just tour D.C. and see how many buildings surrounding the governmental buildings which are the headquarters of all the Lobbyists… some of the buildings are larger than many governmental buildings… these organizations are huge and "rigged the system" like Trump highlighted in his campaign.

This election is the evolution of the populists movement that has resonated in Ross Perot, Ron Paul, the Tea Party, etc.
While we all wished for a much more savvy voice of the movement, someone that could have persuasively communicated across the aisle a little better… we didn’t get it, because the establishment GOP has not given us anyone to be that voice… and so we get a brash, bold jack-ass to tell the establishment and the media to stick-it… and I for one, LOVE IT!

God Bless the USA!
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AK Rich
post Nov 12 2016, 04:30 PM
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Nailed it! I don't know what was so hard to understand about that during this election. I guess it is just easier to cry racist than it is to talk about these things. And now the left wants unity and for Conservatives to play nice after all the shit they have shoveled for the past 8+ years. I want to see some major house cleaning and some folks put where they belong which is a Federal Prison.
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klasaine
post Nov 12 2016, 07:45 PM
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Other than 'talk' early on, in reality, there won't be any bridge building or reaching across the aisle from either side. There never is except when it's a dire emergency.

Repubs won and for at least 2 years they control the house and senate. That's the way it works. Dems had all 3 branches from 2009 to 2011.

*Fellow lefties ... I have a 7 year old at home. I don't want him to have a completely negative and soured the sky is falling kind of bullshit attitude about politics and government before he even gets to vote. Not freaking out at home in front of him, helps 'me' not freak out.
Government is slow and heavy. Nothing agile and nimble about the process here in the states.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 12 2016, 07:49 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 12 2016, 08:12 PM
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Yup. At least 2 years of "Non Gridlock", for the first time in a long time. I'm hoping for the best because that's really all one can do at this point smile.gif The decisions are all made, for now at least, and for the next couple of years, at least. So let's see how they do smile.gif The election is over, everyone here knows where everyone else stands and on some level it just is what it is. So hopefully we can get back to guitiar stuff, though I do find it very hard not to "take the bait" as it gets thrown in to ring. I will do my best to at least try smile.gif

Before we started talking politics, I think things were just more positive in general. Once something gets posted that is just factually wrong, or such, I feel a responsibility to the future folks reading these threads to respond to it. I've invested so much of myself in this site over the past 5 years plus, that it's hard to distance myself from it and realize that it's not my site to "police". That duty belongs to the admins. I do try to stand up for folks who get bashed on for just being themselves, e.g. gay/trans/green/muslim/minority/etc. But I am gonna try to let the admins to the policing as much as I can smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 12 2016, 02:45 PM) *
Other than 'talk' early on, in reality, there won't be any bridge building or reaching across the aisle from either side. There never is except when it's a dire emergency.

Repubs won and for at least 2 years they control the house and senate. That's the way it works. Dems had all 3 branches from 2009 to 2011.

*Fellow lefties ... I have a 7 year old at home. I don't want him to have a completely negative and soured the sky is falling kind of bullshit attitude about politics and government before he even gets to vote. Not freaking out at home in front of him, helps 'me' not freak out.
Government is slow and heavy. Nothing agile and nimble about the process here in the states.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 13 2016, 12:13 AM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 12 2016, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 12 2016, 09:12 PM) *
Expecting some harsh response on that one sentence, from crsn, as I've just come to expect harsh responses from crsn as he seems to post that way which sorta makes me sad as that's the exact thing I hoped would not infect the threads here.


I don't see a need to bring that up, he seems to be doing good in this thread. Perhaps it's a first building block? smile.gif

I have to agree with crsn that the tone of the thread is not very bridge building, and I guess it might be a little too early for that anyway. I'll tweak the thread title!


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 13 2016, 12:12 AM
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That would be my bad smile.gif Just thinking out loud, but you are correct I'll clip that bit. Should have kept that as inner dialogue.

It's this kind of thing that concerns me about the new administration. Hearing lots of things about instances of increased racist actions all over the country. Even at our schools. It's very dissapointing that these horrible folks feel emboldened by the election. Living in "The South" all of my life and being a White Male, I have always walked among racists and heard what white guys say when they are alone with other white guys and assume everyone is "cool". I'm "un Cool" I guess, but I always listened. So I knew the level of racism that still lives here. It seems many folks were simply un aware.

Attached Image

here is a disturbing story on CNN detailing some of the racist incidents happening all over the country. they just keep adding to this list. It's sickening. Not saying any Trump voter is racist, just sharing what some crazy racists are doing while some happen to be carrying various political posters. I'm sure there are racists in Hillary's camp too. They are everywhere. I see it all the time. However, they seem emboldened now, more than before. Much more.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-elec...linkId=31071976

And another similar story.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/11/09/r...ti-maple-grove/



QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 12 2016, 04:09 PM) *
I don't see a need to bring that up, he seems to be doing good in this thread. Perhaps it's a first building block? smile.gif

I have to agree with crsn that the tone of the thread is not very bridge building, and I guess it might be a little too early for that anyway. I'll tweak the thread title!


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 13 2016, 04:44 AM


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Marek Rojewski
post Nov 13 2016, 02:12 PM
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There were as many or probably more racism moments against white people done by "other" after the election than the other way round.


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