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> Focusrite Problem
bleez
post Nov 24 2016, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 24 2016, 08:22 AM) *
is it possible you're sending a stereo signal from kemper but the 11r (and focusrite) taking it mono? this might explain the volume loss.

Thats a good point! I 'think' I have it on stereo but Im using 11R menus which Ive never even seen before so it is entirely possible! I'll go through it carefully and check, thanks dude.


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Mertay
post Nov 24 2016, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 24 2016, 08:54 PM) *
Thats a good point! I 'think' I have it on stereo but Im using 11R menus which Ive never even seen before so it is entirely possible! I'll go through it carefully and check, thanks dude.


Cool, if things get complicated to me best is to use a normal jack and going mono for all the units. This might be easier to pinpoint the problems.


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bleez
post Nov 26 2016, 12:07 PM
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something I noticed. I had a profile which uses a stereo delay kinda ping pong effect. with Hphones direct into KPA I can hear the different delay sound in right and left ear but with the Hphones into the 11r the delay doesnt pan between both ears.
would that suggest I just have it in mono?
I have looked everywhere I can think of but cant find anything that looks like its set to mono but I could be missing it.


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Mertay
post Nov 26 2016, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 26 2016, 11:07 AM) *
something I noticed. I had a profile which uses a stereo delay kinda ping pong effect. with Hphones direct into KPA I can hear the different delay sound in right and left ear but with the Hphones into the 11r the delay doesnt pan between both ears.
would that suggest I just have it in mono?
I have looked everywhere I can think of but cant find anything that looks like its set to mono but I could be missing it.


Yeah the 11r is mono so as its only taking the left or right signal of the kemper its normal that the signal is weak. The 11r users here probably will chime in to help you with that.

As with the Kemper; I can't see any conversion button to mono on the Kemper front panel when looking at pictures. My guess is maybe it always fuctions in stereo but the monitor output behind it is what summs stereo to mono. But I'm not sure if its line level so check the kemper forum or the manual if that output can be placed to the soundcards input to be safe.


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bleez
post Nov 26 2016, 04:22 PM
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I'll check the KPA side for the monitor outputs.

in the meantime. with the reaper track inputs set to 'digital L+R' I recorded the guitar. It plays back within reaper as stereo and sounds damn good! but if I render the track it no longer plays in stereo. Does that narrow anything down smile.gif

it looks like this in reaper, does that look right for a stereo track?
[attachment=45548:rr.jpg]


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Mertay
post Nov 26 2016, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 26 2016, 03:22 PM) *
I'll check the KPA side for the monitor outputs.

in the meantime. with the reaper track inputs set to 'digital L+R' I recorded the guitar. It plays back within reaper as stereo and sounds damn good! but if I render the track it no longer plays in stereo. Does that narrow anything down smile.gif

it looks like this in reaper, does that look right for a stereo track?
[attachment=45548:rr.jpg]


Oh good smile.gif

The wave looks good (from what I see it could be recorded a little hotter but no biggie), the slight shape difference is probably the stereo reverb which is cool. Does it start to crackle when recorded a bit longer time or any other issues? also share a sample here (best is upload a short wave file somewhere so I can analyze it, converting to mp3 or uploading soundcloud can be misleading)

When you click "render" on reaper, look at the options probably the "channels" option is set to mono, switch that to stereo hopefully that'll fix the issue.


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bleez
post Nov 26 2016, 06:41 PM
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render option unfortunatley was already set to stereo. so far no other audio issues that Ive noticed.

this is what I have when rendering -

[attachment=45549:ren.jpg]

[attachment=45550:ren2.jpg]

this wav file when played back within reaper had a stereo delay.

[attachment=45551:rep_ster.wav]

TBH the stereo thing has never been a something Ive bothered about, I only thought maybe that was the reason the direct KPA sound is so good.

I appreciate your time Mertay smile.gif


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Mertay
post Nov 26 2016, 07:22 PM
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I checked your file and its stereo (so reaper settings are ok), maybe the player you're using is mono?

Very good sample by the way, its peaking around -10db so you can increase the output of the kemper to get an even better signal-to-noise ratio but I didn't hear any noise and really impressed as its so silent with a distorted profile smile.gif I'm almost certain if it was the actual amp it would be noisyer biggrin.gif

To me you're ready to rock smile.gif As for recording hotter levels, don't give too much time to get it as hot as possible without clipping. Its ok to give slight headroom when recording but a touch richer than -10db will be even better, specially when you'll record over lesson backing tracks or making your first album biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Nov 26 2016, 07:22 PM


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bleez
post Nov 26 2016, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 26 2016, 06:22 PM) *
I checked your file and its stereo (so reaper settings are ok), maybe the player you're using is mono?

Very good sample by the way, its peaking around -10db so you can increase the output of the kemper to get an even better signal-to-noise ratio but I didn't hear any noise and really impressed as its so silent with a distorted profile smile.gif I'm almost certain if it was the actual amp it would be noisyer biggrin.gif

To me you're ready to rock smile.gif As for recording hotter levels, don't give too much time to get it as hot as possible without clipping. Its ok to give slight headroom when recording but a touch richer than -10db will be even better, specially when you'll record over lesson backing tracks or making your first album biggrin.gif


ohmy.gif seriously! Maybe its my head that's mono huh.gif
The reaper playback before rendering sounds 'more stereo'.... honest cool.gif However, I trust your ears over mine that is for sure!
just out of curiosity, is it possible that a rendered track is slightly less awesome then when its in a DAW? Im guessing maybe a lesser PC might render a lesser sound.

Now that I know how to set up the 11R as an interface I might have one last test with the scarlett, I wont bother about the backing track drop out, just test the guitar sound and compare it to what I have through the 11R. I have a month to return the scarlett so I have a bit of time. It would be interesting to compare the guitar sound from each.
Mertay, my friend, GMC is lucky to have you. Thanks so much for your help. Maybe I can get back to actually playing guitar now.


QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 26 2016, 06:22 PM) *
I'm almost certain if it was the actual amp it would be noisyer biggrin.gif

LOL!


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Mertay
post Nov 26 2016, 09:18 PM
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Thanks for the kind words smile.gif

If you're listening from direct monitoring (not from reapers output) somehow it might be that the recorded (and rendered) files level might be lower than what you're listening, just a guess though. Even slight output level difference can have quite an effect on the human hearing.

Or maybe the playback program (like mediaplayer etc.) has some defoult "sound enhancement" thats screiwng with the sound. The power of the computer shouldn't matter (though I did find such fault with Cubase 10-15 years ago but it should be irrelavant with todays tech and you probably didn't use much cpu anyway when recording).

Other than that, in theory yeah but such differences (if you're not changing the sample and bit depth while rendering) shouldn't be noticable. Reaper is extremely customizable but I wouldn't expect the developers to make such mistake on default settings. You can try placing a wave file (like ripping a song from your cd's), place inside reaper and render it to compare with the original. That might give a better clue if anything is going wrong.

Glad you found an alternate solution (and the focusrite can be returned) but that focusrite bugged me as why its giving you a hard time. Though seems you did try hard so at this point its safe to assume the problem is with their software.


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 26 2016, 09:20 PM
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Should be no problem to output stereo even if your input is mono smile.gif Glad things are working out!!!

Remember, you can record full stereo into the 11r with either spdif in the back, or with the two line inputs in the back from the line outputs on your KPA. So stereo is always an option smile.gif


Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 26 2016, 09:22 PM


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bleez
post Nov 26 2016, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 26 2016, 08:18 PM) *
Glad you found an alternate solution (and the focusrite can be returned) but that focusrite bugged me as why its giving you a hard time. Though seems you did try hard so at this point its safe to assume the problem is with their software.

I went through all the troubleshooting stuff from Focusrite as I was going to contact their support and I knew they would just tell me to do that anyway. I eventually ran 'Latency Mon' which analysed stuff. It threw up a few things. One was the power management, which I done what they recommended, no change.
It also flagged a file from my anti virus but its like the backbone of the program so even switching off the AV program didnt stop it running. I might need to set it not to run at startup or just uninstall it completely. If I got a great Kemper sound from the scarlett and the anti virus was a prob I would just buy a different AV.
Most of the other stuff in the log I didnt understand rolleyes.gif

here it is if you fancy taking a look smile.gif
[attachment=45561:log.txt]

btw Im going to try rendering a CD track from reaper, good idea.


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Mertay
post Nov 26 2016, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 26 2016, 10:04 PM) *
here it is if you fancy taking a look smile.gif
[attachment=45561:log.txt]


I can't make much of it either but it mentions a bitdefender .exe file, usb port and internet. Best is someone more experienced to check it out (might be handy to make a separate topic for this)


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 28 2016, 05:15 AM
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Just air gap your machine (turn off wifi/ disconnect from the internet) and turn off bit defender and see if it impacts the recording smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 26 2016, 06:40 PM) *
I can't make much of it either but it mentions a bitdefender .exe file, usb port and internet. Best is someone more experienced to check it out (might be handy to make a separate topic for this)



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bleez
post Nov 28 2016, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2016, 04:15 AM) *
Just air gap your machine (turn off wifi/ disconnect from the internet) and turn off bit defender and see if it impacts the recording smile.gif

Todd

my money is on bitdefender, it was on both the machines I tested. It is a pain ti disable though. Theres no one button to switch it off. you seem to have to close the various systems it runs but even doing that I still think the main vsserv.exe service is still active.
I dont think win7 has an aeroplane mode type setting. Bitdefender boots on startup, I think if I switch it off there and restart hopefully vsserv.exe wont kick in.


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Mertay
post Nov 28 2016, 06:09 PM
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Virus programs are the natural enemys of recording programs. I prefer to install, scan,clean/delete anything if needed then uninstall them once or twice a year. Malwarebytes doesn't work unless you want it to which is good, I keep that installed but its not the best program out there.

You can manually close programs by alt+cntl+delete but there's always a risk of craching.

You can use firewall's though.


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 28 2016, 08:08 PM
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I'd say uninstall it and air gap your machine to see if bitdefender is the problem. Uninstall, reboot, air gap, test, bingo, result smile.gif


Todd


QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 28 2016, 02:41 AM) *
my money is on bitdefender, it was on both the machines I tested. It is a pain ti disable though. Theres no one button to switch it off. you seem to have to close the various systems it runs but even doing that I still think the main vsserv.exe service is still active.
I dont think win7 has an aeroplane mode type setting. Bitdefender boots on startup, I think if I switch it off there and restart hopefully vsserv.exe wont kick in.


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bleez
post Nov 28 2016, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2016, 07:08 PM) *
I'd say uninstall it and air gap your machine to see if bitdefender is the problem. Uninstall, reboot, air gap, test, bingo, result smile.gif


Todd

sounds like a plan to me smile.gif


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Phil66
post Nov 28 2016, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Nov 26 2016, 10:04 PM) *
I went through all the troubleshooting stuff from Focusrite as I was going to contact their support and I knew they would just tell me to do that anyway.


Mate, when I contacted support live, they didn't once ask me to look at the troubleshooting. There is a log of the chat on here somewhere.

I wish I could have helped more but I haven't messed with mine in ages, I've forgotten how to set it up now as I just use it rolleyes.gif

Glad you're working it out though duder smile.gif


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bleez
post Nov 28 2016, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 28 2016, 08:57 PM) *
Mate, when I contacted support live, they didn't once ask me to look at the troubleshooting. There is a log of the chat on here somewhere.

I wish I could have helped more but I haven't messed with mine in ages, I've forgotten how to set it up now as I just use it rolleyes.gif

Glad you're working it out though duder smile.gif

hey phil, out of curiosity what anti virus type software are you running?


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