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> Is Macbook A Good Idea?
Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 30 2016, 02:45 PM
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Great comments everybody!

Reasons why?

- Logic Pro is one reason. I haven't found a software in PC like that. And I can say that about Garage Band, and I haven't explored too much. Yes, I know that you can do the same thing with PC, but I didn't find a great sofware, which is a standard in music production that includes everything in one (for a musician/producer/composer)
- Everybody says that it's more stable. I know that this depends on many things, but from my experience, I agree.
- I got an Iphone (first Apple product ever) and I'm amazed of how it works and how many extra professional / music oriented apps you get.
- I was going to get an Universal Audio Twin Duo, and it was only for Mac! (I know that they have now a new model for Windows).
- I had many difference Pcs and Laptops, as well as cellphones but I feel that Apple products are more solid and better built. I compared a Dell with a Macbook, both I7 and the overall quality of the MacBook is a lot better.
- There is something that I've heard about a different way of using processor that allows more quality/power. I have no idea about this but many people talks about it.


Reasons why not?

- Costs
- Re-learning software.


Solution?

- Win the lottery tongue.gif
- Doing the transition gradual and keeping both platforms at first.





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yoncopin
post Nov 30 2016, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 30 2016, 09:45 AM) *
- Logic Pro is one reason. I haven't found a software in PC like that. And I can say that about Garage Band, and I haven't explored too much. Yes, I know that you can do the same thing with PC, but I didn't find a great sofware, which is a standard in music production that includes everything in one (for a musician/producer/composer)
- I got an Iphone (first Apple product ever) and I'm amazed of how it works and how many extra professional / music oriented apps you get.
- I was going to get an Universal Audio Twin Duo, and it was only for Mac! (I know that they have now a new model for Windows).
- I had many difference Pcs and Laptops, as well as cellphones but I feel that Apple products are more solid and better built. I compared a Dell with a Macbook, both I7 and the overall quality of the MacBook is a lot better.


These are all very valid reasons, better start saving that $$$ smile.gif If you have an iPhone now, check out my game Code of Arms Macs certainly have their place and are very nice machines, I just think there's a tendency for people to want them without really evaluating their own needs. You seem to be on the right track. Anytune is a cool Mac-only practice app and is the only thing I really miss from the switch.


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Rammikin
post Nov 30 2016, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 30 2016, 01:45 PM) *
- Win the lottery tongue.gif


As an alternative plan to save some money on a macbook pro: look for a used one. You can get a 2012 non-retina MBP in good condition for about $700 US. For a few dollars more you can take it up to 16GB RAM. At that point, for about $800 US you have:

Quad core 2.6GHz i7
16 GB RAM
750 GB HD

Plus, it includes: optical drive, firewire, analog audio input, digital audio input and output, kensington lock slot, removable RAM. These are all useful features for a musician that have been removed from recent models. This MBP would run Logic fine.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Dec 2 2016, 05:07 AM


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Mertay
post Nov 30 2016, 04:30 PM
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- Logic Pro is one reason. I haven't found a software in PC like that. And I can say that about Garage Band, and I haven't explored too much. Yes, I know that you can do the same thing with PC, but I didn't find a great sofware, which is a standard in music production that includes everything in one (for a musician/producer/composer)

Thats cool but just a small note; I have a friend who makes electronic-based music for games and self music (advanced stuff), he uses both samplitude and logic. Logic for advanced sound creation (%99 midi) and samplitude for everything else. Given that you're not super deep into electronica, check samplitude too before being certain of logic.

- Everybody says that it's more stable. I know that this depends on many things, but from my experience, I agree.

We have no evidence to debate I guess but for stability I highly recommend a strong/powerful spec.ed mac. Realtime processing like we need in music (as in studio use not homestudio) can be harder for smaller mac's systems.

- I was going to get an Universal Audio Twin Duo, and it was only for Mac! (I know that they have now a new model for Windows).

Very good product but always consider do you really need it. Original use of UA plug-ins are actually for zero latency tracking, like using compressors, eq's etc. when recording. Was very cool in the past if the studio didn't have decent hardware but as computers progressed in a professional sense they became less mandatory.If you're used to doing this post (adding plug-ins later) then there isn't much point to them. Good sound alone doesn't do it for me, there will always be improvement with soundcards or 3rd party plug-ins.

- I had many difference Pcs and Laptops, as well as cellphones but I feel that Apple products are more solid and better built. I compared a Dell with a Macbook, both I7 and the overall quality of the MacBook is a lot better.

But both will likely need to be changed in 5 to 8 years anyway, with good care they shouldn't break (or atleast nothing serious). Remember, all processing hardware on a mac can be used on a pc too. Rest are just screen, finger print tech. , etc...

- There is something that I've heard about a different way of using processor that allows more quality/power. I have no idea about this but many people talks about it.

Probably they're mentioning the coding algo difference between a mac and pc. It seems to be true that mac's are more efficient (linux ironically being the best) but nowadays there are so many factors its hard to simplify it like that.


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Rammikin
post Nov 30 2016, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 30 2016, 03:30 PM) *
- I was going to get an Universal Audio Twin Duo, and it was only for Mac! (I know that they have now a new model for Windows).

Very good product but always consider do you really need it. Original use of UA plug-ins are actually for zero latency tracking, like using compressors, eq's etc. when recording. Was very cool in the past if the studio didn't have decent hardware but as computers progressed in a professional sense they became less mandatory.If you're used to doing this post (adding plug-ins later) then there isn't much point to them. Good sound alone doesn't do it for me, there will always be improvement with soundcards or 3rd party plug-ins.

I would respectfully disagree. For one thing, they are not zero latency. But the reason people use UA plugins, and presumably the reason Gabe is interested, is due to the audio quality and the off loading of processing from the host cpu. It would be difficult to find native plugins with the same quality as UA's plugins. And, even with today's computers, cpu is still a precious resource when working with plugins. Plus the Twin is a great audio interface.

QUOTE
Remember, all processing hardware on a mac can be used on a pc too.

Unfortunately not. You cannot use a Mac UA Twin on Windows, or vice versa.


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KenA
post Nov 30 2016, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 29 2016, 11:59 AM) *
Hi guys.
I've been thinking on moving from PC to Mac (for different reasons ...


Hi Gabe,

I few years back ( ~ 10 ) I did move from Win to OSX, but let me tell you why I did. At that time and before I was working as a software developer and although most of the systems I was working on were Win based my main issue with Win was that I was always formatting and re-installing Win because the whole system became very slow after a while. Most probably because of the installed frameworks on my machine, plus always debugging code and etc. But I was stuck with Win because of the systems I was working on. Fortunately I changed my job and I could get rid of all the bloated sw installed on my machine, so I could stay with Win, but I was experimenting with Linux / Ubuntu at that time and I became kind of curious about OS usability and easy of use. With Win you have to manually kind of 'tune' the OS, install helper sw in order to achieve a minimum of 'healthness' on your OS environment.

The issue with Linux is that I would spend some time looking for drivers, and also tweaking it ( it's much more user friendly now ), but a friend of mine had this macbook and showed me the main idea on an OSX system and what I saw is that I would spend less time tweaking the OS and doing my things, so I decided to move to OSX.

Overall, I'm glad I did . But don't get me wrong, I'm not those Mac or Win or Lin fanatic. What counts for me is an OS that let me do the things I want without bothering with: the OS itself.

In terms of available sw for music, I'm not sure if OSX would be better/worst that Win. I think both platforms have good enough music related sw in the market. Same for Hardware. I think, not an expert on this subject.


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Mertay
post Nov 30 2016, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Nov 30 2016, 04:47 PM) *
I would respectfully disagree. For one thing, they are not zero latency. But the reason people use UA plugins, and presumably the reason Gabe is interested, is due to the audio quality and the off loading of processing from the host cpu. It would be difficult to find native plugins with the same quality as UA's plugins. And, even with today's computers, cpu is still a precious resource when working with plugins. Plus the Twin is a great audio interface.


Unfortunately not. You cannot use a Mac UA Twin on Windows, or vice versa.


My bad on the latency but I'm very sceptic regarding 3rd party plug-ins quality comparison but also realize its hard to compare as its related to personal likings too (I still keep spitfish plug-in biggrin.gif).

Most plug-ins today aren't much more cpu intensive and various amp sim.s we use here, the worst I remember was nebula stuff when in baby steps (https://www.acustica-audio.com/) but even they managed to lower the resources in time. Aside UA I remember even waves had their own hardware solution but all became absolute in time even Avid started making native HD series years ago...

I would agree though if its needed, then its needed but I would only want Gab. to consider deeper before going into it. Heard nothing but good things as the interface but there are alternatives.

And yeah Apogee was first to come to my mind and learned about specific UA products here. Reminds me, how is thunderbolt on pc? I'd say prime weakness on pc is its still USB based and its not good for latency in professional standards. Firewire worked great for PC, I was a happy user but to me thats not a connection to invest these days.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Nov 30 2016, 07:29 PM


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Rammikin
post Nov 30 2016, 08:01 PM
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I've been lucky enough to use UA plugins side-by-side with the matching Manley and Fairchild gear. Yes, they really are that good smile.gif. The thunderbolt situation on windows pc's is still early, which makes this an awkward time to buy a windows pc for music production.



And...the limited cpu resource issue will always be a problem. There are always more tracks and more plugins that one would like to use in a project. I've done what I can to make Omnisphere and Trilian as efficient as possible, but high quality audio processing comes at a cost.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 1 2016, 01:21 PM
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Comparing with the kemper vs Axe FX debate is definitely relevant.

In a digital amp, my primary concern is audio quality (not CPU or RAM).

In a computer, I am looking at how productive and creative I can be.

Interestingly enough, my personal choices seem to have the weakest technical specs.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 1 2016, 05:26 PM
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On buying a Mac from a mac guy smile.gif I wouldn't buy a new one. The cost is insane, for hardware that can't be upgradeded? The new ones have all the bits soldered in. Bit crap. IMHO. Buy a 2012 or later quad core (four processing cores, like having four processors) i7 (i7 very important) with 16gb of ram and add a 960gb ssd. That's what I did for a total cost of about a third of what a new macbook was going to cost and similar in terms of overall daw performance despite being 5 years old. Also, the base quad i7 (very important, not the quad i5 and really not the dual i3, this is the processor and it will say what it is)

The SSD (hardware drive with no moving parts) is the best decision i ever made. It makes the entire system zippy. LOGIC which is MASSIVE launches in a second or so, browsers launch quicker. Ram is cheap. I was so impressed I bought another used mac and sold my brand new quad i7 imac with 16gb of ram. The laptops are far more portable and now I have a backup laptop for still less than half what it costs to buy one of those insanely pricey new mac laptops.

Thats my .02 smile.gif

P.S. LOGIC is the primary reason to own a mac IMHO. With no other plugins, you can pretty much do an entire music production. Add your fave guitar plugin and you really can get buy with literally nothing else. LOGIC with say TH3 and BAM. Full on automated mixing/production, zero lag, never breaks, never fails, no "driver issues', updates itself, never had a virus, LOVE IT. smile.gif



Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 1 2016, 05:28 PM


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Rammikin
post Dec 1 2016, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 1 2016, 04:26 PM) *
Buy a 2012 or later quad core (four processing cores, like having four processors) i7 (i7 very important) with 16gb of ram and add a 960gb ssd. That's what I did for a total cost of about a third of what a new macbook was going to cost and similar in terms of overall daw performance despite being 5 years old.


Just so there's no unfortunate misunderstanding: The UA Twin that Gabe mentioned he's interested in will not work with a 5 year old macbook pro.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Dec 2 2016, 05:08 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 1 2016, 10:34 PM
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I said 2012 MACBOOK PRO which is what I have (which is not quite five years) It it will work just fine with any Mac on Earth that has a Thunderbolt 1 or Thunderbolt 2 port which the 2012 has a thunderbolt 1 port smile.gif The late 2012 macbooks have a thunderbolt 1 port that I have hooked to a hub that allows me to use ESATA and USB 3! I no longer use firewire for anything as it's just to darn slow. So just pick the right old Mac and you can save wads of money smile.gif As long as your UA is THunderbolt One your ok smile.gif

From the UA web site. (They do demand a quad core i7 as I suggested)


Thunderbolt Computer Compatibility

Apollo Twin is compatible with all Apple Mac computers that have an available Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 port. The computer must meet the system requirements.



https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/2...c-Compatibility


The UA stuff sounds amazing IMHO, mostly during production. Then when you have to mixdown to your 44.1k mp3 some of the magic gets a bit lost. The use of hardware oversampling internal to the hardware gives a killer tone indeed. However, it does have serious limits if you only have a twin. A buddy of mine started with a twin and quickly ran out of processing power. He now uses and OCTA ( 8 UA cores) which is quite a bit more expensive. With a quad core i7 processor, you can have wads of VST/.ua running at the same time without hitting the wall. That's the reason I stayed "Native" and never even bothered with the UA. The twin processor only lets you put in a few plugins, depending on which ones you use. some are real hogs. To be honest, I'd say try going native e.g. software only on a quad i7 Mac laptop. Honestly, LOGIC has enough bits inside it that the only thing I've found I needed was a better guitar sim.

Your mileage may vary smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Rammikin @ Dec 1 2016, 12:40 PM) *
Just so there's no unfortunate misunderstanding: The UA Twin that Gabe mentioned he's interested in will not work with a 5 year old macbook pro like the one you've described.


This is the spec I also suggested in a later post. IT's a great laptop and plenty fast. You honestly can get by without the UA IMHO. I"d replace the hard drive with an SSD (Solid Sate Drive) and use an external drive for "Mass Storage". The internal SSD makes EVERYTHING faster. The RETINA screen is USELESS in music production IMHO.

We are on the same page here to be sure. This is the "Sweet spot" for macs. 2012 was a great year for Macbook pros. You can still upgrade the ram and hard drive since the bits are not soldered in to the unit.

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Nov 30 2016, 11:09 AM) *
As an alternative plan to save some money on a macbook pro: look for a used one. You can get a 2012 non-retina MBP in good condition for about $700 US. For a few dollars more you can take it up to 16GB RAM. At that point, for about $800 US you have:

Quad core 2.6GHz i7
16 GB RAM
750 GB HD

Plus, it includes: optical drive, firewire, analog audio input, digital audio input and output, kensington lock slot, removable RAM. These are all useful features for a musician that have been removed from recent models. This MBP would run Logic fine, but a UA twin doesn't work with an older MBP. That was a controversial issue when they came out with the twin.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 1 2016, 10:35 PM


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Rammikin
post Dec 1 2016, 11:13 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 1 2016, 09:34 PM) *
This is the spec I also suggested in a later post. IT's a great laptop and plenty fast. You honestly can get by without the UA IMHO. I"d replace the hard drive with an SSD (Solid Sate Drive) and use an external drive for "Mass Storage". The internal SSD makes EVERYTHING faster. The RETINA screen is USELESS in music production IMHO.

We are on the same page here to be sure. This is the "Sweet spot" for macs. 2012 was a great year for Macbook pros. You can still upgrade the ram and hard drive since the bits are not soldered in to the unit.


For anybody trying to make sense of this, Apple makes it more confusing than it needs to be, but this explanation might help: The non-retina 2012 macbook pro has upgradeable ram. The retina 2012 macbook pro has non-upgradable ram.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Dec 2 2016, 04:47 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 2 2016, 04:22 AM
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I'm sorry this is simply not true. I have NON RETINA 2012 MACBOOK PRO WITH THUNDERBOLT 1. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but you might want to share as I'd like to contact them.

Here is a link that may clear things up for everyone. It elucidates the differences between 2012 macbook pros that are retina and "non" retina. My Macbook pro, per previous posts is in fact "non retina" and DOES have a thunderbolt 1 port.


http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macb...etina-2012.html

*Quad i7
*NON Retina
*Thunderbolt 1
*Fully UA compatible.

These machines are not hard to find. I fear you may be getting bad info from somewhere. But I spent over a year researching laptops to find the sweet spot and IMHO the mid to late 2012 15 inch quad i7 is the sweet spot as it DOES contain Thunderbolt 1 and is Fully UA compatible smile.gif

So YES, 2012 macbok Pro, do infact come as NON retina with Thunderbolt. I own one smile.gif The 2011 however is a very different story so avoid those. But mid to late 2012 remains the sweet spot in terms of price performance IMHO smile.gif

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FURTHER!!!! I use a THUNDERBOLT 1 DOCK which allows THUNDERBOLT PASS THROUGH so you can use the dock and a UA INTERFACE in addition, you get USB 3.0 PORTS! And HDMI VIDEO PORTS! So the dock makes the laptop a true desktop replacements. As soon as I found it I sold my imac.
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Dec 1 2016, 06:13 PM) *
For anybody trying to make sense of this, Apple makes it more confusing than it needs to be, but this explanation might help: The non-retina 2012 macbook pro has upgradeable ram but no thunderbolt. The retina 2012 macbook pro has non-upgradable ram and thunderbolt.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 2 2016, 04:37 AM


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Rammikin
post Dec 2 2016, 04:48 AM
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My mistake. I edited my post to remove the comment about thunderbolt. I should know better since I own two of those smile.gif.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 2 2016, 08:29 AM
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No worries smile.gif It's easy to get it swapped around between all the various configurations and such smile.gif Just wanted to make sure GABE got the right info about how spiff those 2012 units!!! Put an SSD in there and BAM it's a rocket, supports thunderbolt and then add the dock and you get HDMI video out for a big display and cheap usb 3 fast drives!! Such a deal smile.gif

Logic X is almost the main reason I own a Mac. It's almost like the mac is just the dongle smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Dec 1 2016, 11:48 PM) *
My mistake. I edited my post to remove the comment about thunderbolt. I should know better since I own two of those smile.gif.



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