70 Percent Of Americans Don't Have A College Degree :( |
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Dec 23 2016, 02:43 AM
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We don't really know what products would be subject to the tariffs. It could be only big ticket items like cars, steel and appliances. Who knows - he's not actually president yet and policy takes some time.
Where things can or may get a little more complicated or cloudier is with an across the board tariff on all goods from a foreign country that is deemed to be unfairly pricing their goods or adjusting their monetary policy. If we're talking about China then it's important to remember that a lot of stuff made in the USA uses some Chinese (or Asian in general) parts. I know Gibson and Fender guitars do, I know Ford cars do, I know most US furniture has Asian bolts and screws. Shit, 'Craftsman' tools (Sears) are made in Taiwan and China. If there's this hypothetical 5% import tariff then probably most things, even US things will cost a few percent more. You maybe wouldn't really feel it when you purchase barbecue tools but that next flat screen TV or dishwasher may give you some sticker shock.Then think about all the clothes you buy that are relatively cheap. The tee shirts, socks, gym shoes, etc. What about pencils and pens? Tires, bikes, hot wheels, cheap silverware, soccer ball, coffee mug ... it's kind of endless. And it would all go up. You put a tariff on foreign socks and maybe Bangladesh or Indonesia will sell elsewhere - ? American made tube socks are not going to cost $10 for ten pair. Our standard of living here is high - even for shit wage workers compared to workers in Asia. Our fed min wage is $7.50. A Bangladeshi garment worker makes about .45 an hour. A Chinese, $1.26. JSTCRSN - you build and install Jacuzzis and spas, correct? Are any of the parts or materials you have to order made overseas? Would they be included in this hypothetical tariff? Would your supplier pass this cost on to you? Would you be passing this cost on to the consumer? I'm honestly asking. Do you think it would or could be something that would affect you as business owner? The tariff thing never really works. Goods from parts of the world where it's cheaper to live (and wages are cheaper) are generally going to cost less for us here in the States and in Europe than those goods produced here and in Europe. Japan is a great example. Japanese stuff used to be cheap (price and quality) in the 50s, 60 and 70s. Since the 80s their cost of and standard of living is now one of the highest in the world. Japanese things are expensive now and considered to be of high quality (Sony, Ibanez, Lexus, their steel, etc.) Let's just say that hypothetically anything and everything from China goes up 5%, even excluding Chinese materials in American goods. It'll still be cheaper than most of the US, Japanese or European competition. So India and Indonesia will then be the heavy competition price wise. But we can't really have a trade war with them because they don't artificially alter their monetary policy. They just have a really low cost of living and wages. We spend a lot on Foreign goods because we like the cheaper prices. This post has been edited by klasaine: Dec 23 2016, 02:58 AM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Dec 23 2016, 05:12 AM
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Again well said. It seems that my deeply held views are a pinch much for a core group of folks to stomach and it does seem to devolve despite my best efforts. I keep swearing off talking politics, then see some post that I just can't seem to let slide without offering a counterpoint. I honestly do not enjoy conflict for conflict's sake and always try to depersonalize political issues as much as possible. I'll make every effort to be more careful in the future though
 Todd QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 22 2016, 04:44 AM)  Yes! But for that to happen you also need to think about being more careful with the touchy stuff that you know will provoke, otherwise discussions won't move forward - and instead just turn into meaningless conflict seeking. In keeping with a tone of civility and citing a source that is largely neutral, (neither msnbc or some blog or brietbart etc.) namely THE ECONOMIST (a pubilcation with a long an much lauded history from both sides of aisle), and offer this article about the impact of what is essentially "Protectionism", e.g. Tariffs. The people most hurt, in terms of purchasing power, are the poor. Which is why tariffs have not been widely adopted in our economy for some time now. Also, the article goes in to the declining participation of men in the work force that lack a college education. A topic I have brought up a few times, and gotten some fairly harsh criticism for I might add. I"m just sharing numbers here people, not passing judgement. Here is the article. http://www.economist.com/news/special-repo...oming-and-going I wanted to point out that I didn't personalize ANYTHING in my post here. I'd request any responders do the same? Such that we might maintain our civic tone? Here is the chart in question with the employment/education numbers. *Disclaimer: (Only talking about the issues I'm bringing up, not trying to talk about things I didn't mention, nor am I implying anything of any sort in any way to anybody)  This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 23 2016, 05:26 AM |
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Dec 23 2016, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 22 2016, 07:45 PM) One question though , if it doesn't help , why do other countries do it after china has got a taste of money they make from the US , I think they would think long and hard before they ruin that If not tariff's than what ? Other countries do do it and some of their populace complains about the outrageous prices they have to pay for everyday goods and services. Folks keep less of their money. Hence a lot more social programs to make up for that added living expense like subsidized school, medical, wage standards, retirement, almost unlimited unemployment insurance, some subsidized housing, a ton of subsidized transportation, etc. All paid for by higher taxes. *Keep in mind that those countries that impose heavy tariffs on imported goods are essentially what we here in the US would label as 'socialist' governments. There's really nothing you can do about a country that can produce goods at a fraction of the cost of what we can until their standard of living rises to the point where their wages are at least closer to ours. Our lowest paid workers make between 7 and 14 times more than what a low wage worker makes in Asia. Other than an outright embargo, we'll never be able to make it for less here. With shops like Walmart, Costco and K-Mart we've all gotten used to and expect that socks essentially cost $1 per pair. It ain't like that in other countries with a similar standard and cost of living. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Dec 23 2016, 09:27 AM
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I spent 10 minutes of my life looking for a very easy to read explanation of why Tariffs have serious deleterious effects on the populations of those that impose them. I made sure it was written by someone qualified, an Economics Professor, and that it was very clear and easy to read, you can read it in 2 or 3 minutes.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/0...riffs/87286114/ You ask, if not Tariffs, then what? That is a big question. An analysis was done of speeches by candidates during the last campaign. The best of them communicated on perhaps a 8th or 9th grade level. Trump was much lower, I saw him listed at a 4th grade, but at best a 5th or 6th grade level. We are not hearing anything serious from any of them, the answers lie well above those intellectual levels. I guess the big question about Trump is whether he is actually operating on that level. My suspicion has been that it is not an act, his depth of comprehension of such matters is very limited. Apparently he is going to conduct his presidency in a similar manner to his presidential campaign, that he is going to keep trying to say things that gender support, rather than actually pursue a well thought out plan for success. He is still doing all the tweets, whatever crosses his mind he just tweets it out, and I am sure they discuss in the morning whether it was effective propaganda or not, whether the response was favorable. So he apparently will focus on a day to day basis, trying to say what will be received favorably, until the next tweet. Do you think that is really going to be an effective manner of running the Presidency? The man frightens the hell out of me, and i don't get scared that easily. We have never had a president like this. I understand that people want change, so do I, but you need to be sure that in making changes you don't wreck the joint. Even if your roof is leaking, it is better than no roof at all. I always keep a year's supply of good dog food. Because if things really fall apart, nobody is going to put pets as a priority. A lot of dogs in England died in 1940. And hell, if worst comes to worst, the dogs will have to share with me, I buy them excellent food, it is not cheap. Not a lot of people have $1,000 worth of dog food in their house. 
This post has been edited by fkalich: Dec 23 2016, 09:43 AM |
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Dec 23 2016, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 23 2016, 09:27 AM) I spent 10 minutes of my life looking for a very easy to read explanation of why Tariffs have serious deleterious effects on the populations of those that impose them. I made sure it was written by someone qualified, an Economics Professor, and that it was very clear and easy to read, you can read it in 2 or 3 minutes. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/0...riffs/87286114/ You ask, if not Tariffs, then what? That is a big question. An analysis was done of speeches by candidates during the last campaign. The best of them communicated on perhaps a 8th or 9th grade level. Trump was much lower, I saw him listed at a 4th grade, but at best a 5th or 6th grade level. We are not hearing anything serious from any of them, the answers lie well above those intellectual levels. I guess the big question about Trump is whether he is actually operating on that level. My suspicion has been that it is not an act, his depth of comprehension of such matters is very limited. Apparently he is going to conduct his presidency in a similar manner to his presidential campaign, that he is going to keep trying to say things that gender support, rather than actually pursue a well thought out plan for success. He is still doing all the tweets, whatever crosses his mind he just tweets it out, and I am sure they discuss in the morning whether it was effective propaganda or not, whether the response was favorable. So he apparently will focus on a day to day basis, trying to say what will be received favorably, until the next tweet. Do you think that is really going to be an effective manner of running the Presidency? The man frightens the hell out of me, and i don't get scared that easily. We have never had a president like this. I understand that people want change, so do I, but you need to be sure that in making changes you don't wreck the joint. Even if your roof is leaking, it is better than no roof at all. I always keep a year's supply of good dog food. Because if things really fall apart, nobody is going to put pets as a priority. A lot of dogs in England died in 1940. And hell, if worst comes to worst, the dogs will have to share with me, I buy them excellent food, it is not cheap. Not a lot of people have $1,000 worth of dog food in their house. [.JPG] I agree with this story mostly , but he is taking an example from 1930 , I don't think that is what caused the depression ( might not have helped ) but if you that scenario out from 1930 , all it has one mans view point at best . Lets see if it works or not, but what we are doin surely ain't working, The whole rant after the story is what Kris is talking about , it does nothing for the conversation or a valid point you have in the link that we should discuss. He won , you are going have to come to grips with this . Can you put aside your hatred for the man to see clearly , What if some of what he does works? . Are you able to look back at Obama's mistakes or do you think he was perfect ? P.S. If we are on the wrong path it will hurt to get off . It''s like riding a bike down a hill you get going to fast to control it , but you knowthat you have to bail before the hill gets steeper, it will hurt , you have a few bumps and bruises , your head spins for a little bit and then life goes on. If you think any president, that has to get us out of 20 trillion dept, is going to be able to do it without a little pain you might need to rethink things. I think a little pain now is better for my kids than letting them try to have to clean up my generations( generation give me ) mess This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Dec 23 2016, 02:38 PM |
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