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> Mindset Issue?
Phil66
post Dec 31 2016, 03:46 PM
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Hello folks,

Further to THIS post of mine I'd like to run this by you all. I wanted to keep it in a seperate thread though wink.gif

I've been wondering about something and if it's correct, I don't know how to break it.

I've tried two or three level three lessons now and given up on all but my current Jack White one. I'm always saying to myself and others, "I can't see me ever managing to complete a level 3 lesson, there's always one part I can't do". I'm wondering if my thoughts are inhibiting me. The problem is, if that's what I believe, then it doesn't matter if I try affirmation techniques because I need to truly believe that I can. I don't know how to break this mindset if it is that what is causing my issue.

They say the mind is powerful so what are your thoughts on this? How can someone change what they believe about themselves?

Cheers folks

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 31 2016, 03:49 PM


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Caelumamittendum
post Dec 31 2016, 04:54 PM
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I'm definitely not an expert on "correct" mindset, but what I dream of doing is creating momentum by having small successes, I'm on my way out the door very soon, so I'll keep it short, but basically get the feeling that you ARE indeed capable of doing something. I know that probably doesn't change your way of thinking though.


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Wyverex
post Dec 31 2016, 05:17 PM
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Positive thinking and being determined is definitely a huge factor in being successful. In contrast, negative thinking (and therefore negative affirmations) quickly lead to depression, anxiety and paralysis. I've witnessed this in several people on both ends of the spectrum. If you keep repeating to yourself that you aren't able to finish a level 3 lesson, then you never will. It's that easy because the mind has that kind of power of you if you let it.

I know it's easy to say "Just think positively". I'd rather say: Witness that those negative thoughts are there, but don't let yourself be consumed by them. Just go on and keep practicing that lesson. If there is something that's really hard for you (like the double stops), then try to use it whenever you can just to get used to it. The more you use it in different situations the more it will be ingrained into your playing. You will make it! Just never stop! smile.gif
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Phil66
post Jan 1 2017, 11:33 AM
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Thanks folks,

I've never been a quitter but sometimes I can be a flitter, when something gets to hard I look for something else that I might achieve eg a different lesson. The problem with that is I don't fix my problem area. The other thing is, the lesson can get stale when you keep playing the same thing but not being it quite right.

Cheers


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 1 2017, 04:36 PM
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I like to observe and understand rather than go straight for practise.
By that I mean, if I am having X issue(s) with X technique(s). I like to watch people with high proficiency level doing it.
Then dismantle it block by block and try to visualize yourself playing all those little blocks. Tell yourself that is not that hard and you can achieve it. Practise in your mind a bit before jumping to guitar.

"I can't see me ever managing to complete a level 3 lesson, there's always one part I can't do"

That is the first step to failure. How do you expect to reach anywhere, if you keep reminding yourself that you can't.
That sound a bit masochist tongue.gif

I know its hard to keep a positive mind after weeks of practise and little growth shown. I've been there, I think we all have.
It's all about perseverance and trying to find some joy in your playing and motivation to keep on.

Also, forget lessons levels. They are just meant as a guide, sorting system. Don't think just because you can't play a level x lesson you aren't a good musician/guitarist. I tell you! I find some level 3 harder than level 6 and vice-versa.

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jan 1 2017, 05:11 PM


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Phil66
post Jan 1 2017, 05:22 PM
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Thanks monkey

That thought in my head about not being able to complete a level 3 lesson is something I'm really trying to shake. It's hard to change a true belief not matter what you actually say but believe me I am trying smile.gif

Maybe part of it is the masters make thing look deceptively easy and I expect too much too soon, also the fact that I had a friend who could learn something by ear in no time. For instance, having never heard Surfin" With The Alien before he borrowed the cd from me, went home at 11pm, worked his job the next day and I called him at 6pm the following day to arrange going down the pub and he said "have a listen to this and tell me what you think", he put the phone on the shelf and played the whole of the track on his Les Paul with no backing, he played everything obviously he had no whammy bar but he played that part with the initial notes and it was100% recognisable. It was incredible and he was so humble about it all.

I think it's things like that that haven't helped my expectations of myself.

Thanks for your advice buddy, I appreciate it.

Cheers


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PosterBoy
post Jan 4 2017, 07:58 AM
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forget about the goal.
Don't think about mastering it
Just decide to spend time practicing it and the bits you can't do


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Phil66
post Jan 4 2017, 08:05 AM
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Thanks for your advice buddy. smile.gif

Phil


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Grappa
post Jan 4 2017, 09:53 AM
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Phil,

I feel your pain and trust me everyone who has spent time trying to master anything has come to points of frustration like this.

I agree with the other posts and that a positive attitude is important however we can get into either virtuous or vicious circles if we are not careful. It's almost impossible to maintain a 'real' positive attitude if despite all of your efforts you are not making the progress you desire.

Couple of points to consider (these are my perspectives and I respect that others may disagree)

1. Are you being realistic about the goals/timescales you are setting for yourself. Setting realistic goals is critical here; if you don't you are pretty much guaranteed to fail! Bite sized, achievable chunks is the way (for me anyway) - not grand, 'conquer the world' style stuff on a day to day basis. It's good to have the grand dreams (they are the things that inspire us to put in the long hours after all) but they need to be over a much longer period and everything you do on a week by week basis should build towards these longer term goals.

2. Are you focused enough? Lets face it; learning an instrument is tough. Making progress requires sufficient focus on whatever it is you want to improve at for sufficient time to allow this to happen. Flitting between one thing and another will just take you round in circles and get you nowhere ultimately (other than frustrated perhaps)

3. If you can't play something it is because your technique is either not sufficiently developed or you are doing something fundamentally wrong that is not allowing you to play it. It really is that simple as far as I am concerned. Technique is fundamental to playing and it is a physical thing (forget all this super hero, super-talented guitar player rubbish). Any person who has great technique gained it through practise (some may even have been lucky enough to have started with a fundamentally sound mechanical technique or been badgered by a teacher to correct issues early on). There are two problems here in my experience; the first is that people simply do not know what it is to REALLY practise. I suggest you grab hold of this short book and read it ('First, Learn to Practice' by Tony Heany). The second is that there just isn't enough focus on the mechanics of playing and students don't focus enough on developing solid, scalable technique.

I say the above because I have felt like you for most of my guitar playing life (and that's most of my life!). I'm not a dumb guy but I just didn't realise the some fundamental things. I never really practised (I noodled), I never got anywhere (I flittered around). I never practised effectively (I didn't realise what it is to really practise) and I pushed on with a rubbish technique for decades thinking that I simply didn't have 'what it takes' to be good.

At 50 I decided I wasn't prepared to die having not fulfilled my dream. I always wanted to be a virtuoso guitar player. My whole guitar playing life has been inspired by listening to people who are at this level. It is this that inspired me to devote all of the spare hours of my life to playing and continues to do so. Please understand that 'virtuoso' to me doesn't necessarily equate directly to speed although pretty much every player I love has great technical ability.

Over the last few months I have deconstructed my technique and gone through the pain of re-architecting the way I play. In three short months I have achieved more than I did in 25 years when it comes to being able to physically play. Whilst I accept that this doesn't make me a better musician I can now play things that were a mere pipe dream in the past.

The key point I would make here is WHATEVER your aspirations are as a guitarist you will never be able to achieve them if your technique doesn't allow you to do it. End of story. You need to create the right practise environment to get to this point. The rest just follows..

If I can do it - you can too.

Regards,

Si

This post has been edited by Grappa: Jan 4 2017, 10:36 AM
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Phil66
post Jan 4 2017, 10:26 AM
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Wow Si,

Thanks for that in depth reply. I too am 50, I've had guitars for 30 years but only ever noodled. I had a couple of guitar teachers, one was basically a busker and I only worked with open chords and very simple lead. The other was Simon Lees who won Guitarist Magazine's Guitarist Of The Year, I didn't progress very much. That was the mid to late 90's.

Since joining GMC I feel I've come on more than ever so that's a positive.

I don't know if you read the post above about my friend and Surfin' but maybe that ingrained a false sense of expectation.

I practise solidly, I don't flit about even though the temptation is there after playing the same two bars for an hour. I work on my current GMC lesson and a classic rock song (currently Breaking the Law, I've learnt Rock Steady and Highway to He'll too but not the solos, I just improvise as they are too hard at the moment), and that's my hour and a half taken up, recording and making videos for Gab to view has to come out of my time allocation too.

I am very focused and have no distractions whilst practising. I only miss practice when life or work take a wrong turn.

Thanks for taking an interest and taking the time for me Si, I appreciate it.

Cheers

Phil



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Grappa
post Jan 4 2017, 03:23 PM
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Phil,

I didn't mean to offend - just to give some help if possible based on my own nightmare journey!

Good luck,

Si
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Phil66
post Jan 4 2017, 03:28 PM
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Si mate,

I never once felt offended, 100% not and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I deeply appreciate any help anyone offers and yours was really in-depth so thanks again for giving me your time.

Cheers buddy

Phil smile.gif


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“Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in installments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.”
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 5 2017, 08:24 AM
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This post has gotten some great responses. It's a classic problem. There are always going to be bits that get in the way. Little stumbling blocks that seem out of proportion to the other bits in terms of difficulty. These bits are there to show you where you need to focus your attention. For every player, the bits can be different. For one guy the bit at the start of the solo is the tough part, the next guy finds the ending tough.

It's normal and to be expected smile.gif It's just allowing you to see where you have a chance to improve in general. When you run in to such a bit, just back off a pinch, slow down. Play that part a bit more a bit slower, a bit more careful, etc. Eventually, you'll add it to the rest of the bits and play the entire things smooth smile.gif

This keeps happening as you keep moving up the ladder. Embrace it! smile.gif

Todd


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Phil66
post Jan 5 2017, 08:46 AM
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Thanks Todd,

Yeah there have been some very helpful replies and they have given me encouragement and hope. I find the journey hard to embrace when the bland scenery doesn't change for weeks, that's where I falter, when I don't improve even a single bpm for two or three or more weeks. It makes me feel like an underachiever.

Cheers buddy.


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“Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in installments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.”
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 5 2017, 11:01 AM
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I hear ya!!! That's something different. If you hit a stump and keep stumping for three whole weeks then something is VERY, VERY, VERY wrong IMHO. If you ever hit that again, it's crucial (again IMHO) that you take some video using any means available and share it (unlisted on youtube if need be so that it's not just public in case you don't want it out there for search queries and such) with your fellow GMCers/instructors.

It's at that point, that the community can bring it's collective experience to bear and offer some help/hope/tips/tricks/etc. to get you past the stump. smile.gif

We are here to help man! But you gotta keep up in the loop wink.gif Yeah, I'd go nuts just swirling on one bit for three weeks that just wasn't working. Let us help dude! smile.gif

Todd






QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 5 2017, 03:46 AM) *
Thanks Todd,

Yeah there have been some very helpful replies and they have given me encouragement and hope. I find the journey hard to embrace when the bland scenery doesn't change for weeks, that's where I falter, when I don't improve even a single bpm for two or three or more weeks. It makes me feel like an underachiever.

Cheers buddy.



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Phil66
post Jan 5 2017, 12:47 PM
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I only really posted this at the time because Gab was on holiday, I never really post problems with lessons I'm having with Gab because he is my mentor and a very good one. I just feel like I'm going behind his back but as he was on holiday I didn't feel so bad.

Cheers Todd, I hope you understand smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 6 2017, 07:26 PM
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No worries smile.gif Practice!!

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 5 2017, 07:47 AM) *
I only really posted this at the time because Gab was on holiday, I never really post problems with lessons I'm having with Gab because he is my mentor and a very good one. I just feel like I'm going behind his back but as he was on holiday I didn't feel so bad.

Cheers Todd, I hope you understand smile.gif



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Phil66
post Jan 6 2017, 09:11 PM
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Thanks for understanding Todd, it's not that I don't appreciate anyone's help, it just goes against the grain with me to ask when Gab is around, the best of it is, I know he wouldn't mind me asking for other people's opinions smile.gif

Anyway, here is last nights take, I'm hard right, it is at 65bpm (original is 90bpm)
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/jack-white-phil-and-gab-65bpm


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