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> Amp's Drive Dynamics And Compression
KenA
post Jan 8 2017, 07:20 PM
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Hey. Taking in consideration Pre-Amp Drive and Power-Amp Drive and the following 2 scenarios:

A. Pre-Amp Drive greater than Power-Amp Drive

B. Power-Amp Drive greater than Pre-Amp Drive

In case A, I have a more compressed, less dynamic drive and it feels easier to play fast sequences or legato runs

In case B, the opposite and a more thick drive, more blues sounding drive, more SAG effect

In terms of technical ability, should you be able to play very fast sequences in any drive scenario? I feel way harder to play fast in case B. Is it just me or any player feels this difference?

This post has been edited by KenA: Jan 8 2017, 07:21 PM


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Mertay
post Jan 8 2017, 08:02 PM
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Preamp (we can add most dist. pedals too) drive involves some low-cut'ing which makes the signal easier to be compressed and sound fluid instead of fuzzy.

I'm not sure if there are any amps made these days which can carry the B case, poweramp sound always reminds me of vintage amp sounds while the modern amps power-amp is more of a compliment to the preamp so it won't sound small.

There are pedals that some-what sounds like poweramp distortion. A blue tech 21 which I can't remember the name came to my mind, I remember finding it not suitable for boost or dist. if used for shred.

If you like I can share a sound file of my current chain; an ibanez bb9 pedal (fullrange OD/booster)+boss MT-2(main distortion)+a processor with eq+cab. emu and delay. So I don't even use an amp for my shred sound smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jan 8 2017, 08:03 PM


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KenA
post Jan 8 2017, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 8 2017, 07:02 PM) *
Preamp (we can add most dist. pedals too) drive ...



I'm not really a technically inclined guy in regards to shredding that's why I'm curious to know how the shred guys do ... and if I understood right by your comment, is that in order to shred fluidly the compression with high gain is key so you reduce those "ta ta ta" pick sound when alternating fast ... that's probably why it's harder or odd to shred using a blues type amp.

This post has been edited by KenA: Jan 8 2017, 09:45 PM


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Mertay
post Jan 8 2017, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE (KenA @ Jan 8 2017, 08:44 PM) *
I'm not really a technically inclined guy in regards to shredding that's why I'm curious to know how the shred guys do ... and if I understood right by your comment, is that in order to shred fluidly the compression with high gain is key so you reduce those "ta ta ta" pick sound when alternating fast ... that's probably why it's harder or odd to shred using a blues type amp.


Key is actually nailing how much the bass freq.s are cut, then you increase the gain to distort (which also compresses) as much needed.
Problem here is if cut too much bass then the neck pickup will sound like bridge, also the amp/cab. should not have too much highs (like a blues amp) or high freq.s can hurt ears. When that bass is there yeah it will sound odd when picking smile.gif

But this also has to do with what type of distortion the amp is producing. With one amp you can get a Hendix tone while with another a Yngwie even if gain levels and most of the gear are the same.

Keep in mind there are several ways to adjust that bass cut and thats where gear has to be chosen carefully (including pickups).


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 8 2017, 10:27 PM
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Bottom line is YES. smile.gif You Should be able to play fast sequences, even on the clean channel. The amount of gain/dist. can certainly make it a bit easier to play briskly as they reduce the amount of finger power needed in general. However, even with a very modest amount of gain, you should, ideally, be able to play fast sequences and IMHO, be able to play them ONLY using the left hand. E.G. Hammer Ons/Pull Offs only, no picking. This requires an enormous amount of left hand finger strength, but it's something that you should shoot for IMHO smile.gif

During my vid chats, we often worked on left hand only finger drills and such, so as to increase our FINGER POWER and especially PINKY POWER!! smile.gif

Once your left hand is strong enough, picking becomes a tonal choice instead of something you have to do.

Here is a left hand only solo not using a wad of gain. It's an 11 rack patch using the blues version of the bogner amp and a tube screamer with the gain turned to 0 and volume about noon. Of course it doesn't hurt that I'm using a Paul Gilbert Ibby smile.gif




Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jan 8 2017, 10:37 PM


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KenA
post Jan 8 2017, 10:33 PM
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Good tips ... as always is not just one or another, but a combination of all the variables ...


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 8 2017, 11:44 PM
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Well said! smile.gif

QUOTE (KenA @ Jan 8 2017, 05:33 PM) *
Good tips ... as always is not just one or another, but a combination of all the variables ...


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KenA
post Jan 9 2017, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 8 2017, 09:21 PM) *
Key is actually nailing how much the bass freq.s are cut, ...
... and thats where gear has to be chosen carefully (including pickups).


Guitar sound Eq is also an interesting topic / science ... finding the right eq setting so the guitar will cut through the mix without being the 'center' of the attention ... thanks to amp sims we can see how mics, cabinets, different types of reverbs, etc affects the final sound ( and yes, the guitar's own specs like string gauges, pickups,... ) and how we play, picks, palm mute, etc

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 8 2017, 09:27 PM) *
Bottom line is YES. smile.gif ...
... Here is a left hand only solo not using a wad of gain. ...


I wonder you really need left hand strength to accomplish that!
I'm convinced one should be able to play in any amp's settings!
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 9 2017, 06:55 AM
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I'm speaking of not using a Pick AT ALL and thus requiring left hand strength smile.gif If you just use your left hand, as I do in the vid, you do need enough left hand power to hammer on every single note and pull off every single note. The pick isn't there to do any striking for you smile.gif


QUOTE (KenA @ Jan 8 2017, 10:06 PM) *
Guitar sound Eq is also an interesting topic / science ... finding the right eq setting so the guitar will cut through the mix without being the 'center' of the attention ... thanks to amp sims we can see how mics, cabinets, different types of reverbs, etc affects the final sound ( and yes, the guitar's own specs like string gauges, pickups,... ) and how we play, picks, palm mute, etc



I wonder you really need left hand strength to accomplish that!
I'm convinced one should be able to play in any amp's settings!


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Mertay
post Jan 9 2017, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE (KenA @ Jan 9 2017, 02:06 AM) *
Guitar sound Eq is also an interesting topic / science ... finding the right eq setting so the guitar will cut through the mix without being the 'center' of the attention ... thanks to amp sims we can see how mics, cabinets, different types of reverbs, etc affects the final sound ( and yes, the guitar's own specs like string gauges, pickups,... ) and how we play, picks, palm mute, etc



I wonder you really need left hand strength to accomplish that!
I'm convinced one should be able to play in any amp's settings!


I for example find comfort focusing on pre setting as the sound you hit the amp with. A tele sound can be very ideal for shredding, the bridge PU of the tele has very "jumpy" mid.s so even very soft picking with extreme distortion can sound very alive. Treble booster/overdrive pedals were used by many long ago for such effect.

As for strength I agree with Todd but just for clerifiying too much/wrong strength execises can yield to bulky overall techniqe. A hammer-on should sound like a hammer-on on any tone of guitar but we should always try to be practical and not always try to make things harder then they should be.


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Darius Wave
post Jan 9 2017, 10:46 AM
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Guys have already gave you some great feedback. Adding my two cents, I would line to point out that learning micing process refering to software is unfortunately just a little introduction to the topic. With a real amp and real recording gear, there are some many factors affecting the tone, that even if you buy exactly the same gear as decsribed in the software, you could still be surprised not having a tone even close, to the one from VST, having exactly the same settings.

I belive I'm not the only one who has been through this a lot of times. Listening to a software amp sim and thinking "well, that could be an amp that would work for me", then buying the amp and having extremely opposite experiences.


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Mertay
post Jan 9 2017, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 9 2017, 09:46 AM) *
...


I for one still not so happy about ir, its ok tech but something better is needed.

Excluding kemper/fractal stuff, I like affordable shred setups without an amp but anything else (maybe except ultra clean) then yeah amps are so much more fun biggrin.gif



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klasaine
post Jan 9 2017, 05:02 PM
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A lot of great responses here regarding EQ.
The only thing I can add is sort of a 'simple' and very general equation ...
Power amp distortion will generally cut you through the band w/o having to be extra loud.
Pre-amp distortion can (not always) result in your lead tones getting buried within the band regardless of your volume (unless you are extremely loud).

Yngwie, Ritchie Blackmore, Page, Iommi, Brian May, Lukather ... all power amp dist - power tubes and the transformers clipping. Amps turned way up. And mostly non-master volume amps (or the master all the way up). That type of gain also retains a lot of individual tonal characteristics of the player, the guitar and the pickups. It definitely assists in you having your own voice.


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