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> Gas For 11rack Users :)
Todd Simpson
post Jan 22 2017, 04:33 PM
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Good point smile.gif A lot of Metal Heads with AXE FX rigts seem to grab Mishan Mansoors preset or something very close to that and just call it a day. Misha has killer tone, for sure. But it's his tone, which is honestly very similar to Meshuggah, who are one of his big influences. As a result, we get wads of Metalcore/Deathcore/Death Metal/Tech Death folks sounding so close to Meshuggah/Periperhy, that it's getting to be a bit common.

Creating your own patches from scratch takes wads of time. Even modding a patch can to your my liking can take days. I end up spending as much time on patches as I used to spend moving the darn mic around the cab playback testing to see how it actually sounded. But yeah, it's gotten a bit easier now that folks can just grab a pretty spiff tone off the web and call it done.

I'd urge everyone to to customize whatever they are using to some degree to make one's town one's own so to speak smile.gif By using pretty much any means necessary. I found that using overdrives on the Bogner head in the 11 gets a killer Metal tone while nearly everyone else seems to rely on the Mesa amp in the 11 for heavy stuff. The Mesa is a great emulation and I love it but it always sounds like the mesa. The bogner, when pushed hard in front with an overdrive, sound like something else. Which is why I dig it smile.gif Still heavy, still crunchy, but with more "body" overall. I've shared the preset in the 11 rack preset section here on GMC. Thankfully there are just not that many 11 rack users compared to axe fx users it seems. Not to mention, Misha doesn't use an 11 so folks can't just grab his sig pickups and rack preset and call it a day. smile.gif

BTW. His new overdrive pedal sound really spiff IMHO. He puts it in front of a 5150 pedal and in to a free cab loader in a daw and manages to sound like himself. Even without the rack.

OLA ENGLUND is someone that folks notice always sounds very similar no matter what amp he is using. Folks don't realize that if you always use a Randall Cab with V30s and an SM57, your sound will reflect that no matter what you put in front of it. The 57 always sounds like the 57 which is why I use a condenser mic on cabs for music recording and the 57 only for demos as it's a standard.

Todd




quote name='klasaine' date='Jan 22 2017, 11:20 AM' post='743451']
Because 1) it's relatively easy now to get a known good tone w/o a mic, w/o a decent room and hell - w/o a decent engineer and 2) Time is money - bottom line. 90% of guitar players are gonna go for a favorite tone. And if it's someone else's tone - it's 'novel' or they don't realize it ... at least for a little while (or ever). Players are SO enamored with "how easy it is to get a good sound" (which is totally subjective and situation dependent) now that they forget about getting their sound or the band's sound or even just the track's sound. A lot of music producers are very guilty of this too.

When it's easy to get a good sound, most go the first 'good' sound they stumble on to. It's human nature except for the most creative, driven and dedicated. Innovation and creation is hard - in any endeavor, especially art.

*In the 80s and the 90s - two eras of 'BIG' guitar - it would usually take at least one whole day (8 to 12 hours) to just get tones experimenting with amps, cabs, mics, guitars, etc. Same for the drums. No one has the dough to do that anymore.
[/quote]


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Rammikin
post Jan 22 2017, 05:16 PM
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I like Todd's point. Regardless of what gear you're using, put in the effort to find your own sound. With the flexibility of today's modelers, it's not that difficult.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Jan 22 2017, 05:43 PM


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Rammikin
post Apr 16 2017, 02:53 PM
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The Headrush is out now. Or at least at Guitar Center, which has an exclusive deal for the time being. Early reports show a rather awkward release. For example, there is no mention of the release on their website or facebook page. There is no manual for it either. No editor. No new amp models compared the 11R. It looks like they rushed this out before it was ready because of worries about competition from the Helix LT which Line6 released recently. The more competition, the better, so it's always great to see new modelers on the market, but this looks downright clumsy.


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 16 2017, 09:27 PM
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NO EDITOR!!!! Heresy. The entire point is to have a handy to use editor to make patches with, at least on the 11. That's one of it's main selling points!! I won't be looking for one anytime soon though so I'll probably be ok smile.gif Not until they find their way on to the used market and someone has worn the "new car smell" off of it smile.gif by then, hopefully there will be an editor.

I saw an AX8 for $899 on ebay and I must say I was very tempted. That unit is amazing and why is it half the price of the rack mount version when it seems to do pretty much the same thing as the axe fx II? Anybody know why? If it is the same thing, why would any one pay double to have a rack version then pay another 600 at least for the pedal and another 100 at least for a mission engineering pedal or two for the wah/volume control.

I'm going to keep looking for an AX8. Half the price of the rack, for the same tech? Sold smile.gif Not to mention it's got a pedal board built in. Any AXE FX owners that can give some info here please do.


Todd



QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 16 2017, 09:53 AM) *
The Headrush is out now. Or at least at Guitar Center, which has an exclusive deal for the time being. Early reports show a rather awkward release. For example, there is no mention of the release on their website or facebook page. There is no manual for it either. No editor. No new amp models compared the 11R. It looks like they rushed this out before it was ready because of worries about competition from the Helix LT which Line6 released recently. The more competition, the better, so it's always great to see new modelers on the market, but this looks downright clumsy.



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Rammikin
post Apr 16 2017, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 16 2017, 08:27 PM) *
I saw an AX8 for $899 on ebay and I must say I was very tempted. That unit is amazing and why is it half the price of the rack mount version when it seems to do pretty much the same thing as the axe fx II? Anybody know why? If it is the same thing, why would any one pay double to have a rack version then pay another 600 at least for the pedal and another 100 at least for a mission engineering pedal or two for the wah/volume control.

I'm going to keep looking for an AX8. Half the price of the rack, for the same tech? Sold smile.gif Not to mention it's got a pedal board built in. Any AXE FX owners that can give some info here please do.


The AX8 and AxeFX are very different. To begin with, the processors are far more powerful on the AxeFX than the AX8. This leads to a significant difference in the architecture: The AxeFX allows 2 amps and 2 cabinets in a patch, while the AX8 only permits one of each. Similarly, the AxeFX allows more effects to be used simultaneously. Also, there are certain effects that are available on the AxeFX, but not the AX8. For example, the megatap delay and the quad chorus. The AxeFX has more I/O options, including USB. And numerous other differences like the tone matching feature.

That said, the basic amp and cabinet sounds are the same on the two units.



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 16 2017, 08:27 PM) *
I saw an AX8 for $899 on ebay and I must say I was very tempted.


I'm looking at AX8's that have sold on ebay this year. The lowest price one has gone for is $1100. Maybe you have the AX8 and FX8 confused?


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 17 2017, 02:11 AM
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I could have gotten them confused. Probably the fx is the one that went cheap. So I think I get it now, the big boy has twice the power, double amps, double cabs, etc. While the floor unit is more stripped down, one cab, one amp kind of thing. Sort of AXE FX LIGHT. Or AXE FX LE, sort of thing. The budget model for starters smile.gif

I'm getting the price difference now. IT's about half the machine, so about half the price. Thanks much for the info!

REALLLY lame that it has no USB recording. But I guess it's really just meant as a cheap alternative to the rack unit for live players/gigging musicians/etc. As it's got the pedal board built in and would make a great live rig. Just patch direct to the house and very little to carry around. I gotta say that's a big part of the appeal for me. Lugging racks full of gear and cabs get's old after a point. It's fun for a while smile.gif But yeah, I'd rather grab one small unit that can do the whole thing. You gotta trust the monitor guy, but saving yourself from tossing your back out runs pretty high on my list these days smile.gif

Partially why I'm so stoked to see the new 11 rack pedal version coming together. I hope they get an editor soon!!!!

Todd




QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 16 2017, 04:57 PM) *
The AX8 and AxeFX are very different. To begin with, the processors are far more powerful on the AxeFX than the AX8. This leads to a significant difference in the architecture: The AxeFX allows 2 amps and 2 cabinets in a patch, while the AX8 only permits one of each. Similarly, the AxeFX allows more effects to be used simultaneously. Also, there are certain effects that are available on the AxeFX, but not the AX8. For example, the megatap delay and the quad chorus. The AxeFX has more I/O options, including USB. And numerous other differences like the tone matching feature.

That said, the basic amp and cabinet sounds are the same on the two units.





I'm looking at AX8's that have sold on ebay this year. The lowest price one has gone for is $1100. Maybe you have the AX8 and FX8 confused?



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Rammikin
post Apr 17 2017, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 17 2017, 01:11 AM) *
So I think I get it now, the big boy has twice the power, double amps, double cabs, etc. While the floor unit is more stripped down, one cab, one amp kind of thing. Sort of AXE FX LIGHT. Or AXE FX LE, sort of thing. The budget model for starters smile.gif


Oh? The AX8 is spec'd pretty much the same as a Kemper. Maybe you consider a Kemper just for beginners? smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 17 2017, 04:52 AM
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Well, that's a different issue smile.gif The Kemper can do double cabs and double amps with the hardware that it's got right? At least one would hope it could. smile.gif

I was talking about the ax8 in comparison to the rack mount axe fx II. The Kemper comparison is something you inserted smile.gif For kemper owners, please don't take offense smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 16 2017, 11:43 PM) *
Oh? The AX8 is spec'd pretty much the same as a Kemper. Maybe you consider a Kemper just for beginners? smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Apr 17 2017, 05:17 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 17 2017, 03:52 AM) *
Well, that's a different issue smile.gif The Kemper can do double cabs and double amps with the hardware that it's got right?


Nope.

I just mention the Kemper as a comparably spec'd device as the AX8 for reference.


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 18 2017, 12:02 AM
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So the Kemper CAN"T do multiple cabs/amps like the AXE FX II? Is that the case? If so it makes since given it's got the same power as the AX8 which is half the power of the rack. I did in fact find one for under $800. IT's an AX8 not an FX8. Here is the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391753273983?ul_noapp=true

Good buy smile.gif if I had 800 bucks laying about I'd grab it myself smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 17 2017, 12:17 AM) *
Nope.

I just mention the Kemper as a comparably spec'd device as the AX8 for reference.



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Rammikin
post Apr 18 2017, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 17 2017, 11:02 PM) *
So the Kemper CAN"T do multiple cabs/amps like the AXE FX II? Is that the case?

That's correct.

QUOTE
I did in fact find one for under $800. IT's an AX8 not an FX8. Here is the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391753273983?ul_noapp=true


smile.gif It is not for sale for under $800. It's an auction where the current high bid is $800 with three days to go. I guarantee the sale price when the auction completes will be over $1000.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Apr 18 2017, 12:25 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 18 2017, 03:02 AM
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Very true smile.gif I should have said "currently" under $800. You remind me a LOT of my buddy Alex who is also a coder. He strives for a high level of specificity, which is a good thing IMHO smile.gif You are probably right, the auction may well end above 1k. It's out of my price range at any rate. Just glad to see some units available. Once they come out with the next version, this one will get cheaper, I may end up getting a used version of this when the Pedal II comes out smile.gif

I'm a bit shocked that the kemper can't do dual cabs/heads, but then again, the kemper isn't about that kind of thing. It's really about nailing the tone of a particular amp/cab combination. Which is does better than any other product. I do hope they license their technology to other folks like Fractal and Line 6 and I hope the kemper format becomes a sort of file standard, that other devices can load. But that's just day dreaming smile.gif Kemper and Fractal are both very much about NOT doing that sort of thing, at least so far. But hope springs eternal smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 17 2017, 07:18 PM) *
That's correct.



smile.gif It is not for sale for under $800. It's an auction where the current high bid is $800 with three days to go. I guarantee the sale price when the auction completes will be over $1000.



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Rammikin
post Apr 18 2017, 03:26 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 18 2017, 02:02 AM) *
but then again, the kemper isn't about that kind of thing. It's really about nailing the tone of a particular amp/cab combination. Which is does better than any other product.


I hope you'll forgive me for pointing out that is highly debatable smile.gif. Many people would argue the same thing about an AxeFX.

Or in the terms you mentioned: You're walking some fine lines in this thread between "not specific enough" and "wrong" smile.gif.

Edit: The high bid on that auction is already over $800 smile.gif.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Apr 18 2017, 03:31 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 18 2017, 04:52 AM
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It's a fine line to be sure. But I'm sure you'll be there to grab me if I tip over it smile.gif

As you mentioned, the axe vs kemper nailing an amp tone is debatable, not really right or wrong though imho. But I"d come down on the side of the kemper being a bit better at, as it was built to do that one thing. The axe was not built to do that one thing, it didn't even offer it in the first version if I remember correctly. But that's what debates and forums are for smile.gif

It's too bad imho that the kemper can't do multiple amps/cabs, IMHO, but gain that's an IMHO, not a statement of fact.

I hope that bid doesn't end up near list price, or what's the point of ebay?

Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 17 2017, 10:26 PM) *
I hope you'll forgive me for pointing out that is highly debatable smile.gif. Many people would argue the same thing about an AxeFX.

Or in the terms you mentioned: You're walking some fine lines in this thread between "not specific enough" and "wrong" smile.gif.

Edit: The high bid on that auction is already over $800 smile.gif.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Apr 18 2017, 05:04 AM


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Rammikin
post Apr 18 2017, 05:34 AM
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The AxeFX was built to accurately and precisely nail amp tones from day one. You're way over the line now smile.gif.


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 18 2017, 08:52 AM
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Can't tell if your kidding or not, or just trying to be funny ?. But, as I said, if I had to say which one was built from day one to nail a certain amp sound, I'd say it was the Kemper, since that was what it was built to do. The Axe FX was built to be a complete amp/cab/fx/routing platform. It's very close on amps, but it's got a fixed number of amps and never claimed to be able to perfectly match any amp, as did the kemper. So if I had to say which one would best "nail" an amp tone, I'd say it would be the kemper, as that was what the kemper was built for. Your thoughts and mileage may vary of course. That's the entire point of a forum, as I mentioned. Having heard samples from both, I'd say that based on that alone the Kemper gets closer than the axe fx. But again, that's me and my ears. You can hear, think, say, do, whatever you like in terms of your own impressions of the kemper/axe thing. That's up to you smile.gif But I've said my bit about as good as I can say it. smile.gif

I'm probably more of an AXE guy and will probably end up with the floor unit that doesn't do multi cabs. Still think the kemper should do multi cabs/amps, but yet again, just my thoughts. Kemper disagrees evidently. I've loved using more than one for quite some time in various apps/hardware. One could argue that the kemper has no use for such things as it creates all but perfect tone. Some folks are kemper folks smile.gif Some folks, like Kevin townsend are both. He uses the Kemper for amp profiles and the axe fx for stuff with lots of fx. Makes sense smile.gif Hate to lug both around though. The AX8 seems about the perfect size. Fits in a backpack, bam, done smile.gif

Todd


name='Rammikin' date='Apr 18 2017, 12:34 AM' post='746676']
The AxeFX was built to accurately and precisely nail amp tones from day one. You're way over the line now smile.gif.
[/quote]


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Rammikin
post Apr 18 2017, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 16 2017, 01:53 PM) *
The Headrush is out now. Or at least at Guitar Center, which has an exclusive deal for the time being. Early reports show a rather awkward release. For example, there is no mention of the release on their website or facebook page. There is no manual for it either. No editor. No new amp models compared the 11R. It looks like they rushed this out before it was ready because of worries about competition from the Helix LT which Line6 released recently. The more competition, the better, so it's always great to see new modelers on the market, but this looks downright clumsy.


Initial reports do indeed indicate the Headrush is off to a rocky start. USB audio doesn't work on OSX and IR loading uses an inordinate amount of cpu resource. So, if anyone is considering going down to Guitar Center and paying $1000 for one of these, you might be better off waiting to see if a subsequent revision fixes these and other problems before doing so.



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Todd Simpson
post Apr 19 2017, 01:55 AM
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I'm going to wait for the used market on the Head Rush, just like I did on the 11. Someone else can have the new car smell smile.gif Also, I wouldn't even consider it until they fix the usb issue on osx and have a working editor. They seem like they just wanted to get units moving to generate revenue. The product seems half baked. I hope they fix things on the software side. If not, the entire thing may be still born. Then again, if it dies, they will get cheap quick and then I'd reconsider smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 18 2017, 09:21 AM) *
Initial reports do indeed indicate the Headrush is off to a rocky start. USB audio doesn't work on OSX and IR loading uses an inordinate amount of cpu resource. So, if anyone is considering going down to Guitar Center and paying $1000 for one of these, you might be better off waiting to see if a subsequent revision fixes these and other problems before doing so.



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