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Rammikin
post Feb 14 2017, 11:51 PM
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That makes the choice between an AX8 and a Kemper in Argentina an easy decision smile.gif.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 15 2017, 03:37 AM
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OUCH!!!!!!! I had no idea gear was that much more pricey over there. That's rough. sad.gif Ebay does offer their own international shipping on some things, it might be a way around paying crazy prices?

Todd

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 14 2017, 04:52 PM) *
You can get Ax8 for 75% the price of a Kemper (without the foot controller).

Kemper price is around US$ 4000/5000 in Argentina. ohmy.gif

I've seen an AX for US$3000.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 15 2017, 01:20 PM
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There are 3 reasons why I think Kemper would be a better option for me:

- The cloning thing is priceless.

- I've seen how Fractal stopped giving update for previous product. This means that if they release a new device, the other one will suffer an important devaluation.

- Not sure about the tone, but I think that I've heard cooler tones, more "real sounding" and more versatile tones from Kemper devices.



This is what I think from what I've read and hear from videos. So I'm totally open to hear why you think I'm right or wrong about this. smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Feb 15 2017, 04:20 PM
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If you're expecting me to say an AX8 is better than a Kemper, I won't smile.gif. They are very similar and each has its own strengths. On balance they are virtually equivalent when it comes to sound quality. Anybody who tries to tell you an AX8 sounds better than a Kemper, or vice versa, is just responding to the way they were tweaked when they heard them. Both achieve an extremely high level of tube amp emulation.

However, I've owned both a Fractal and a Kemper, and I kept the Fractal. Kemper profiling is super nice, but it is also nice to have modeled amps in the AX8 so you can load up a Bogner model and have the controls respond the way a real Bogner does, instead of a static profile like you get with a Kemper. True IR loading in the AX8 is a real joy that can only be approximated in a Kemper. The effects are much better in the AX8. And the price of an AX8 is far lower than a Kemper, it includes footswitches, an editor app, much better control features, and more flexible signal routing.

The primary reason Kemper commands a higher price is due to the fact they sell through retailers while Fractal sells direct.

On the other hand, for someone willing to pay about $US 2000 in the states, then go for a Fractal AxeFX II. While an AX8 is equivalent to a Kemper except for price, the AxeFX II is indisputably better than a Kemper for a similar price, and you get tone matching, which in some ways is more useful than Kemper profiling, plus numerous other features like dual amps, USB audio, etc.

I'm not going to recommend an AX8 over a Kemper to you, or vice versa, but since you mentioned the price of a Kemper, I felt obligated to point out you have a lower cost option that has equivalent amp emulation quality.

P.S. The previous generation of Axe FX devices was updated for years after it was discontinued, and if you watch the prices of used ones, they haven't gone down much, even after all this time.

P.P.S.
Check this out if you haven't seen it before to see things you can do with an AX8 or Axe FX II, but not with a Kemper:



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 15 2017, 05:13 PM
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Fantastic post Ram. Thanks for clarifying.

Just maybe a silly, and lazy question. Why AX8 is cheaper than AXFxII if it's a two in one (processor + controller). Is it because it have much less connection possibilities?



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Rammikin
post Feb 15 2017, 05:23 PM
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Yes, the Axe FX II adds USB audio. But the big difference is the processors are more powerful so it adds things like dual amps/dual cabinets and tone matching, and you can have more effects in use simultaneously.



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klasaine
post Feb 15 2017, 05:23 PM
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I am seriously looking at the AX8.

I have some really great amplifiers. But they're not any 'better' than either companies' profiles or models.


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Mertay
post Feb 15 2017, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 15 2017, 04:23 PM) *
I am seriously looking at the AX8.

I have some really great amplifiers. But they're not any 'better' than either companies' profiles or models.


For your style and experience, I'd say give it a good demo before buying if possible.

Reason is aside tonally, the touch responce might have more importance for you than compared to the crowd. I mean the details or player personality through sound, make sure to check if it doesn't make you hit the string ever so differently.


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Doug Lane
post Feb 15 2017, 10:58 PM
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I've been on the Helix bandwagon for about six months now; the thing is a beast! I'm so stoked for Helix Native. This plugin is going to make recording backing tracks and the mix-in of patches for live settings a snap! The things that really drew me to Helix were the ease of use, and the expanding architecture. The AX8 and Kemper are both extremely good, but they are reaching the limit their DSPs can handle. The onboard memory and Firmware updates for the Helix to me shows a lot more promise and ear candy for the future.


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klasaine
post Feb 15 2017, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 15 2017, 01:45 PM) *
For your style and experience, I'd say give it a good demo before buying if possible.

Reason is aside tonally, the touch responce might have more importance for you than compared to the crowd. I mean the details or player personality through sound, make sure to check if it doesn't make you hit the string ever so differently.


Xlnt advice.
Fortuitously, due to where I live, I can try before I buy.
*I really only want it for recording. If it also worked for 'me' live - then that's a bonus.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 16 2017, 01:54 PM
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I've found this comparison interesting:



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Grappa
post Feb 16 2017, 04:07 PM
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Glad to see this didn't degenerate into a 'this product is better than that one' thread - seen so many of these and they are a complete waste of time and oxygen..

I bought a Kemper and I couldn't be happier. Others have bought Axe FX and Line 6 etc. and they couldn't be happier. I'm happy that everyone is happy; after all, that's what it's all about!

Just do your own research if possible and pick the product that meets your requirements best..

Using a modeler has completely changed the way I do live stuff and these advantages apply across the board irrespective of product. I now run a rig that consists of three lightweight pieces of equipment and a guitar. I can pretty much guarantee the quality and consistency of my FOH sound and the days of lugging heavy guitar cab(s) around are over. It's taken a bit of getting used to but once I'd got over the change I've not looked back.

I feel I am now getting the best sound I ever have into the ears of the audience (or bar staff if it's the usual level of interest!) and my aging body is thanking me for not having to cart loads of stuff around any more.

The only real issue I have now is that the wife wants me to sell all of my old amps and I just can't do it - I'm too sentimentally attached to them!

Regards,

Si
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klasaine
post Feb 16 2017, 04:44 PM
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I agree with Grappa that these comparisons are becoming pointless - there all good.
Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, Fender Gibson, PRS, Ibanez ... whatever. What features do you need? What price do you want to pay? At this point, there's one for everybody.

*In that comparison vid above, the AX8 sounded the closest to to the Mk.IIC to me. In fact, it sounded exact.
Did they all sound good? Yes! Did they all sound like some type of cranked Boogie? Yes!



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Todd Simpson
post Feb 16 2017, 06:21 PM
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Well said smile.gif Thankfully, I think we have gotten past the "my sim is better than yours" thing, and have moved on to details like price, options, features, etc. Because that's what it really comes down too now that all these units sound really good smile.gif

I must agree with your ears as well. That AX8 sounded more like what I expect from a IIC+ than the actual recording of the IIC+. smile.gif It's a brave new world when sims sound a pinch better than the legendary amps they are based on. But again, sound is very subjective. So everyone's mileage may vary.

I used the IIC+ in my 11 for nearly every high gain patch for years. It's why I bought the unit to begin with after hearing Walliman compare the IIC+ on the axe version1 with the 11. But nowadays, I like the BOGNER RED better as it's got a pinch more clarity imho. I put the 11's tube screamer in front of it and a pre eq parametric and it sounds just amazing. Here is that vid that sold me on the 11.

The MARK IIC+ comparison starts at 2:45


Todd

QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 16 2017, 11:44 AM) *
I agree with Grappa that these comparisons are becoming pointless - there all good.
Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, Fender Gibson, PRS, Ibanez ... whatever. What features do you need? What price do you want to pay? At this point, there's one for everybody.

*In that comparison vid above, the AX8 sounded the closest to to the Mk.IIC to me. In fact, it sounded exact.
Did they all sound good? Yes! Did they all sound like some type of cranked Boogie? Yes!


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 16 2017, 06:25 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 17 2017, 01:22 PM
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I think that this type of comparisons are really helpful for people who can try these devices before buying and I think that even being all really good, there is always some kind of "personality" regarding the sound on each one, and being able to check some different samples helps to try to see which one will work for us.

I remember buying the Pod X3 live when it was the great new thing but without being able to try it. When I've first connected it I couldn't believe how trebly every factory patch sounded. I could fix this creating my own presets, but this "trebbly" feel was part of the device and I've always felt it was there. }


(Note: Does the words trebly make sense? I mean that sounded with a big amount of treble)


I've checked many vids, and I can say that in none of the cases I preferred the sound color of the helix. And my feeling is not related to how close it sounds to the real thing, it's because I don't like the direction that the "difference" takes.

Finally, we all now that a big part of the tone is in our fingers, and off course guitars. But who would deny that we love this talks and discussions! laugh.gif

On a side note, I've been considering the AX8 but the fact that you can't have two amps makes me think it. I'd like to use it live stereo with different settings for each channel. If two amps isn't possible, at least a different mic emulation or eq. This isn't possible, is it?



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Rammikin
post Feb 17 2017, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 17 2017, 12:22 PM) *
On a side note, I've been considering the AX8 but the fact that you can't have two amps makes me think it. I'd like to use it live stereo with different settings for each channel. If two amps isn't possible, at least a different mic emulation or eq. This isn't possible, is it?


You can only use a single amp with an AX8. That's another reason why it's comparable to a Kemper. There are many ways you can add stereo to your sound with effects of course...it is a stereo device after all. The Axe FX II, on the other hand, has dual amps and dual cabinets.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 18 2017, 05:35 AM
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You are spot on IMHO with previous POD devices. I did a review in my gear thread on my personal board of a POD HD bean that I bought and eventually sold. I've also owned the POD XT. TONS of fx, and options, but yes, the amps all did sound a pinch trebly/fizzy. It's something that line 6 has been burdened with for years. Like you, I managed to work around it somewhat by making patches that decreased the treble/fizz. But it was always there under the surface. From what I understand, the HELIX has new Math/algorithms and better processing which finally frees it from the burden of "fizz". The vids I've seen sound pretty good as well smile.gif Seems like a very nice unit.

The AXE FX II is probably the most versatile of the current crop of units with it's tone matching, usb recording, dual amps, etc. And it certainly sounds very nice as it's used by more pro's than I can count.

The kemper is less about having wads of fx/routing options, than it is about being precise in replicating the tone of a given amp. Also, the number of amps it can emulate is unlimited. Where the AXE and every other unit has a certain number of Amp Models built in. The AXE II allows you to do something similar to profiling call "Amp Matching", but not exactly the same.

So as has been said, it comes down to price/features required by a given user in the end smile.gif


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 17 2017, 08:22 AM) *
I think that this type of comparisons are really helpful for people who can try these devices before buying and I think that even being all really good, there is always some kind of "personality" regarding the sound on each one, and being able to check some different samples helps to try to see which one will work for us.

I remember buying the Pod X3 live when it was the great new thing but without being able to try it. When I've first connected it I couldn't believe how trebly every factory patch sounded. I could fix this creating my own presets, but this "trebbly" feel was part of the device and I've always felt it was there. }


(Note: Does the words trebly make sense? I mean that sounded with a big amount of treble)


I've checked many vids, and I can say that in none of the cases I preferred the sound color of the helix. And my feeling is not related to how close it sounds to the real thing, it's because I don't like the direction that the "difference" takes.

Finally, we all now that a big part of the tone is in our fingers, and off course guitars. But who would deny that we love this talks and discussions! laugh.gif

On a side note, I've been considering the AX8 but the fact that you can't have two amps makes me think it. I'd like to use it live stereo with different settings for each channel. If two amps isn't possible, at least a different mic emulation or eq. This isn't possible, is it?



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AK Rich
post Mar 8 2017, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 15 2017, 02:54 PM) *
Xlnt advice.
Fortuitously, due to where I live, I can try before I buy.
*I really only want it for recording. If it also worked for 'me' live - then that's a bonus.

Lucky dog! Are you thinking of going for a used one? I'll bet there are more than a few in your neck of the woods. Up here I don't think there are many, and if there are, folks are hanging on to them. Lately I have been considering purchasing a used FX8 from Reverb. I have been on Fractal's wait list for that unit since this month last year and it's starting to get on my nerves. dry.gif Frigging ridiculous!

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klasaine
post Mar 8 2017, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 8 2017, 08:47 AM) *
Lucky dog! Are you thinking of going for a used one? I'll bet there are more than a few in your neck of the woods. Up here I don't think there are many, and if there are, folks are hanging on to them. Lately I have been considering purchasing a used FX8 from Reverb. I have been on Fractal's wait list for that unit since this month last year and it's starting to get on my nerves. dry.gif Frigging ridiculous!


If I can find a used one, yeah. The prices aren't where I'd like them just yet.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 8 2017, 05:20 PM


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AK Rich
post Mar 8 2017, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Mar 8 2017, 07:56 AM) *
If I can find a used one, yeah. The prices aren't where I'd like them just yet.

I hear you. Right now it doesn't seem uncommon for the used ones to sell for more than a new one in many cases. Some folks seem to be buying them just to turn around and resell for a profit.
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