Just For Reference, Journalistic Standards |
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Feb 8 2017, 06:47 PM
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I just thought I would share some interesting things I have found concerning the comparisons made between Hitler and MANY Presidents, other world leaders and political parties.
From the Huffington Post: Before You Compare Something to Hitler and Nazis...Don't "Whatever the rationalization, it has to stop. Trivializing Hitler and the Nazi regime is not only supremely dangerous and foolish, it is also insensitive and a slap in the face to all who suffered under that regime. It is time we begin to appreciate the beauty of the English language. According to U.S. author Paul JJ Payack, president of the Global Language Monitor, there are over 1,013,913 words in the English language, give or take. Surely advocates and lobbyists are creative enough to use all that richness properly and paint images that are worthy of the issue they espouse. Falling back on Hitler and the Nazis only tells us that they lack both imagination and sensitivity." http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/bernie-farber..._b_1875579.html From Politico: Quit Comparing Trump to Hitler! "This is absurd. Granted, Trump’s combination of outsider populism, thinly-veiled appeals to ethnic and racial resentment and tough-guy talk are far more likely to invite comparisons to populist tyrants like Hitler (or Mussolini, another popular Trump analogue) than to, say, Mahatma Gandhi. But the major factor at work here is “Godwin’s Law”—the tongue-in-cheek idea that any online discussion will eventually end up comparing someone or something to Hitler or Nazis. It is a rule illustrated by the long history of Hitler comparisons deployed against both conservative and liberal politicians in America." "All of this bears out the “law” of the Internet age put forward by Mike Godwin, an American attorney and author, that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.” But long before Godwin, the German philosopher Leo Strauss—himself a Jewish refugee from Hitler—dismissed what he called the argumentum ad Hitlerum as a cheap debating trick: “A view is not refuted by the fact that it happens to have been shared by Hitler.” http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...parisons-213711 More in these two papers: THE PRESIDENT NAZI: How U.S. Presidents and Their Political Parties are Compared to Hitler and the Third Reich by Megan Gallagher "Although political leaders from the time Hitler was in power to now have been likened to Hitler and the Nazi party, both conservatives and liberals have also made such comparisons in reference to anything from minor offenses to major political moves. However, the justifications for using such phrases appear to be the same for both conservatives and liberals. That is to say that conservatives use the term Nazi against liberals for the same reasons liberals call conservatives Nazis. Today, the term Hitler is widely used in American vernacular by both liberals and conservatives as well as international figures to try and coerce a knee-jerk reaction of instant dislike as well as fear towards the person or action to which it is being applied." http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcus...erMegan.htm#top Hitler Analogies in the New York Times by Jennifer Green "Using Adolf Hitler as an analogy with different United States presidents is a notion that is not uncommon to see in different media sources such as television and newspapers. When I first started my research, I did not think that I would get nearly as many articles that compared Hitler and the presidents of the specific time eras I was searching. In fact I found analogies starting with President Hoover to our current U.S. President George W. Bush. The internet was most resourceful in my research, especially with the more contemporary presidents such as Reagan, Bush, and Clinton. Search engines such as Google and Yahoo allowed for broad searches that revealed new sources that I would have not otherwise considered in this project. However, the source I focused on for this project was the New York Times, which I accessed through the UCSB library. It allowed me to search all articles dating back to the year 1851. While going through all of the sources that contained analogies between US presidents and Hitler, I found that in many cases comparing the presidents with Adolf Hitler was an extreme statement that was used to greatly exaggerate the current situation. Furthermore, the inflationary use of this analogy takes away the legitimacy of what Adolf Hitler truly represented." http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcus...giesNYTJenn.htm |
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Feb 10 2017, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 10 2017, 09:24 AM)  I am currently thinking that disallowing images, videos and copy & paste in these specific threads might be the way to go. But I must say I had higher thoughts of you guys. I encourage to watch this Kris , the vast majority of my videos have been clear, concise , calm arguments . Not all I agree with , but who does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGVo_vCA9g |
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Feb 11 2017, 04:41 PM
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Well said Kris
 I have found that some folks just don't want to be convinced. No matter what the evidence, no matter what the argument. It happens on both sides of any given argument of course. There are folks both left and right who are simply so entrenched in a given mode of thought that they can and will defend it using any means necessary til the bitter end. Such conversations are not really conversations but really just subsequent diatribes. I've found they end up just creating a separation between members that can easily be avoided by just "keeping it business" and talking about guitar. As a result, I've made a conserted effort to avoid political conversation recently. I've found that it makes little if any headway at all. It mostly results in spurious argument with questionable sources. Not naming names here, not pointing fingers, just making a general statement about my experience so no need to pounce on me with a batch of accusations, as I"m not pouncing on anyone. In general, let's try not to pounce on each other eh? We are brothers in music. We can agree to disagree on various topics and just keep it to ourselves and focus on what matters. Music After all, the point of GMC is to improve as musicians and come together as a community to help each other, not tear each other down in any way. Again not accusing anyone of tearing anyone down, just stating that tearing each other down is not the point of our community as I see it Political posts seem to quickly veer from the abstract and get personal. This seems very negative to me. It doesn't build community, it just separates us, the same way we are separated currently in the united states. There is a MASSIVE divisiveness in our country which I find troubling. Both sides unable, or unwilling to accept the other. I hope we can rise above such petty concerns and focus on what matters. MUSIC. Specifically, guitar. P.S. I think KRIS has a point in perhaps moving these types of conversations to their own topic room or just giving a link to another place online where folks can talk their version of politics. There are tons of such places online. So if one feels the urge, one could simply go over to said site and paste all the vids one wants. We can all go over there and talk politics, then come back here and talk about guitar. The "Political Forum" cold be one page with some links to sites that talk politics and just remain locked so it couldn't be polluted with bile, just a link out to another place where one could spew til the hearts content from left or right, communist to liberal, Trumper to Never Trumper. Then come back and talk about something really important. Guitar P.P.S. This is a snippet from AKRICH. In trying to argue against comparing trump to Hitler, one of the references contained this little nugget actually supporting the comparison. Just thought I'd point that out. quote name='AK Rich' date='Feb 8 2017, 01:47 PM' post='744158'] I From Politico: ...Granted, Trump’s combination of outsider populism, thinly-veiled appeals to ethnic and racial resentment and tough-guy talk are far more likely to invite comparisons to populist tyrants like Hitler (or Mussolini, More in these two papers: THE PRESIDENT NAZI: How U.S. Presidents and Their Political Parties are Compared to Hitler and the Third Reich.. As for Videos: Here is an example of a video that is Prima Facia "offensive" IMHO. This guy simply rejects the idea of Transgender folks. Saying that there is no such thing and mostly a lie people tell themselves. Anyone who accepts the idea that trans people are actually trans people would be greatly offended. Similarly, some folks think being gay is a mental condition or "choice" that can be "cured", instead of being simply a state of being that they were born with and endowed with by their creator. Such people are as we all are. Lowly sinners. None better than the other in the eyes of God. He's also anti abortion. Being a man, it's not really his call as he can't get pregnant IMHO. It's a women's issue, as such, I think it should be left to women, not left to the govt. It strikes me as odd that folks who call for smaller govt, push for govt control over reproduction. Sticking the govt in to the most private area of peoples lives. This seems to be a tremendous hypocrisy. Of course there is hypocrisy on both sides. Then again, there is everything on both sides by and large. Still this serves as good example of an offensive / propaganda style vid, for reference. https://youtu.be/gkONHNXGfaM Lastly, here is an article by New York Magazine. Not some crazy blog or "lizards run the goverment' type of publication. It's a serious, sober, thoughtful article making a valid comparison directly between Trumps rise and HItler's. Rise. Worth a read http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/...e-to-power.html QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 7 2017, 05:19 PM) I removed the Trump/Hitler image from this post. Given the seriousness of the current situation, I think you are better off sticking to discussing the factual matter - which is bad enough without any Hitler images... My apologies. I thought the image was ironic and humorous. I didn't consider how offensive it might be to the trumpers. That would be my bad. Mea Culpa. Todd This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 11 2017, 05:44 PM |
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Feb 11 2017, 05:13 PM
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See above.
This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 11 2017, 05:13 PM |
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Feb 11 2017, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 11 2017, 04:41 PM) Well said Kris I have found that some folks just don't want to be convinced. No matter what the evidence, no matter what the argument. It happens on both sides of any given argument of course. There are folks both left and right who are simply so entrenched in a given mode of thought that they can and will defend it using any means necessary til the bitter end. Such conversations are not really conversations but really just subsequent diatribes. I've found they end up just creating a separation between members that can easily be avoided by just "keeping it business" and talking about guitar. As a result, I've made a conserted effort to avoid political conversation recently. I've found that it makes little if any headway at all. It mostly results in spurious argument with questionable sources. Not naming names here, not pointing fingers, just making a general statement about my experience so no need to pounce on me with a batch of accusations, as I"m not pouncing on anyone. In general, let's try not to pounce on each other eh? We are brothers in music. We can agree to disagree on various topics and just keep it to ourselves and focus on what matters. Music After all, the point of GMC is to improve as musicians and come together as a community to help each other, not tear each other down in any way. Again not accusing anyone of tearing anyone down, just stating that tearing each other down is not the point of our community as I see it Political posts seem to quickly veer from the abstract and get personal. This seems very negative to me. It doesn't build community, it just separates us, the same way we are separated currently in the united states. There is a MASSIVE divisiveness in our country which I find troubling. Both sides unable, or unwilling to accept the other. I hope we can rise above such petty concerns and focus on what matters. MUSIC. Specifically, guitar. P.S. I think KRIS has a point in perhaps moving these types of conversations to their own topic room or just giving a link to another place online where folks can talk their version of politics. There are tons of such places online. So if one feels the urge, one could simply go over to said site and paste all the vids one wants. We can all go over there and talk politics, then come back here and talk about guitar. The "Political Forum" cold be one page with some links to sites that talk politics and just remain locked so it couldn't be polluted with bile, just a link out to another place where one could spew til the hearts content from left or right, communist to liberal, Trumper to Never Trumper. Then come back and talk about something really important. Guitar P.P.S. This is a snippet from AKRICH. In trying to argue against comparing trump to Hitler, one of the references contained this little nugget actually supporting the comparison. Just thought I'd point that out. quote name='AK Rich' date='Feb 8 2017, 01:47 PM' post='744158'] I From Politico: ...Granted, Trump’s combination of outsider populism, thinly-veiled appeals to ethnic and racial resentment and tough-guy talk are far more likely to invite comparisons to populist tyrants like Hitler (or Mussolini, More in these two papers: THE PRESIDENT NAZI: How U.S. Presidents and Their Political Parties are Compared to Hitler and the Third Reich.. As for Videos: Here is an example of a video that is Prima Facia "offensive" IMHO. This guy simply rejects the idea of Transgender folks. Saying that there is no such thing and mostly a lie people tell themselves. Anyone who accepts the idea that trans people are actually trans people would be greatly offended. Similarly, some folks think being gay is a mental condition or "choice" that can be "cured", instead of being simply a state of being that they were born with and endowed with by their creator. Such people are as we all are. Lowly sinners. None better than the other in the eyes of God. He's also anti abortion. Being a man, it's not really his call as he can't get pregnant IMHO. It's a women's issue, as such, I think it should be left to women, not left to the govt. It strikes me as odd that folks who call for smaller govt, push for govt control over reproduction. Sticking the govt in to the most private area of peoples lives. This seems to be a tremendous hypocrisy. Of course there is hypocrisy on both sides. Then again, there is everything on both sides by and large. Still this serves as good example of an offensive / propaganda style vid, for reference. https://youtu.be/gkONHNXGfaM Lastly, here is an article by New York Magazine. Not some crazy blog or "lizards run the goverment' type of publication. It's a serious, sober, thoughtful article making a valid comparison directly between Trumps rise and HItler's. Rise. Worth a read http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/...e-to-power.html My apologies. I thought the image was ironic and humorous. I didn't consider how offensive it might be to the trumpers. That would be my bad. Mea Culpa. Todd you just arent getting it , Todd . You did exactly what you said you wouldn't do in the first part of your post . You can call Trump Hitler all day and it wont offend me, but what you do is set yourself up to be one of those people you talked about in your first paragraph . If trump is hitler , than I don't half to give him or anyone like minded a chance = I will never give hitler a chance . And thus close yourself off from all impartiality. Then with your last breath you passive aggressively throw an article about trump and hitler. It is this kind of rhetoric that is getting people beat up all across America , They voted for hitler -they deserve it Are you to impartial to see that . |
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Feb 13 2017, 10:08 PM
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All this going in circles is just pointless. We all know, at this point, how each other feels on the given topics of politics, so it's starting to get a bit tiresome so I vote we switch to music. I'd like to invite you both to give a shot to this weeks challlenge which is a Blues track.
Here is the link! http://bit.ly/sundayshredfestx39 |
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Feb 15 2017, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 13 2017, 10:08 PM) All this going in circles is just pointless. We all know, at this point, how each other feels on the given topics of politics, so it's starting to get a bit tiresome so I vote we switch to music. I'd like to invite you both to give a shot to this weeks challlenge which is a Blues track. Here is the link! http://bit.ly/sundayshredfestx39 going around in circles , huh , you throw up some trump Hitler accusations , did not answer any questions from opposing views , all you did was pat those on the back in your echo chamber , throw out accusations and then say you are going to take the high road and go back to guitar. |
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