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> Offended By The Trump/hitler Comparison..?, Here is something else to discuss: My new track!
Todd Simpson
post Feb 20 2017, 10:08 PM
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Nobody wants to watch the sausage being made, as they say smile.gif It's just too awful. I fear you are right about going back 50 years in terms of nearly all regulatory progress. But also agree with you that we will survive 4 years and the country will move ahead :)Our system is built to be resilient and allow for shifting patterns in the demography. One bit of good news, as more folks in the world start eating meat, (the Chinese), there aren't going to be enough cows to go around. So it will become a quick motivator for finding ways to create edible meat that can be made instead of harvested.


QUOTE (fkalich @ Feb 19 2017, 09:00 PM) *
Damn good composition and playing! Excellent. You should be proud of it.

Coincidentally enough I was discussing horrific animal agricultural practices today with my niece. I have long been aware of the atrocities and restrict my diet as much as I can so as not to support the heinous animal agricultural practices in the United States. I was talking to her about a book I am reading called "Sapiens", a book on anthropology where this is one of the things discussed. Your allusion to Nazi death camps is appropriate. That we as human beings allow the barbaric cruelties to cut costs in animal agriculture is, well I can't think of of a word to describe it, it is so contemptible. It makes me ashamed to be a human being.

I believe that the prevalent anthropocentric perspective has it's root in the fact that we are the last surviving species of the Genus Homo. Go back 100 thousand years, there were at least 6 species of humans walking the planet. People have a delusion of central position, and they disregard the welfare of other species

And in Trump/Republican administration, well as the Humane Society has said, they will push progress in this matter back 50 years. Although I think on this, as with other things, we can survive and recover from 4 years of Trump.

But again, loved your video, playing, composition. You should do these more often.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 20 2017, 10:09 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 20 2017, 10:08 PM) *
One bit of good news, as more folks in the world start eating meat, (the Chinese), there aren't going to be enough cows to go around.


Not sure what you mean? We breed cattle, we don't search for them in the wild. The unbelievable amount needed to supply people with meat & dairy is one of the big reasons why our planet is about to succumb.

The unwanted surplus of baby calves from the dairy industry is thrown into the garbage bin or sold as cheap meat. If China wants to ramp up meat production I don't see what is preventing them (except common sense of course).

The only thing that will stop us in the long run is a global & fatal environmental disaster - but this is hardly good news?


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Mertay
post Feb 21 2017, 12:38 PM
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A close relative of mine has a lot of experience in cattling. Its actually more of a science these days as one can fill an entire library with the books written about it.

As a meat consumer I can say that if anyone hasn't eaten food from a farm animal, than he/she doesn't know how meat tastes smile.gif I don't get to have high quality meat anytime either but after such experience one doesn't feel like consuming as much as they used to.

Another point; There isn't such think as safe food either,vegetables are genetically modified too and no one is certain (or willingly not researching about it) about the long term effects on humans yet.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Feb 21 2017, 12:41 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 21 2017, 12:38 PM) *
Another point; There isn't such think as safe food either,vegetables are genetically modified too and no one is certain (or willingly not researching about it) about the long term effects on humans yet.

The point is not to eat something 100% safe - the point is that only herbivores can develop atherosclerosis. Humans are not built to eat meat! Hence we get all sorts of chronic diseases when we do.

So in other words: the most common causes of death can be avoided if one stops consuming animal products.

This post has been edited by Kristofer Dahl: Feb 21 2017, 02:33 PM


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AK Rich
post Feb 21 2017, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 21 2017, 04:14 AM) *
Humans are not built to eat meat!


This is highly debatable and certainly not a fact as evolutionary biology disagrees with that statement. Furthermore, the environmental impact of the meat industry is irrelevant to a discussion about evolutionary biology and whether or not humans are ominvores.
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Tom51
post Feb 21 2017, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 21 2017, 05:06 PM) *
This is highly debatable and certainly not a fact as evolutionary biology disagrees with that statement. Furthermore, the environmental impact of the meat industry is irrelevant to a discussion about evolutionary biology and whether or not humans are ominvores.


Very good point Rich! I am fully with you. Its about biology and not ideology.
From an human evolutionary biology of the last few 100 thousand years a statement like "Humans are not built to eat wheat" would be a lot closer to reality.
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Mertay
post Feb 21 2017, 05:36 PM
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Story; I had a piranha and only fed it with fish food (they're plant and shrimp based), was as tiny as my finger tip and in a year bigger than my hand. When it was grown, I placed a living small fish so he can eat it but although time passed he didn't. One day I woke-up to find that small fish in tiny peaces, he killed it brutally but didn't eat it...

Being such predators humans always were, consume or not consuming meat might also be totally irrelevant to biology.

Personally, I guess I could live without meat not missing it extremely but I can't do without fish smile.gif it rejuvanets me better than anything after mental or physically tired.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 21 2017, 05:06 PM) *
This is highly debatable and certainly not a fact as evolutionary biology disagrees with that statement. Furthermore, the environmental impact of the meat industry is irrelevant to a discussion about evolutionary biology and whether or not humans are ominvores.


It's not debatable, it's a fact. Only herbivores can develop atherosclerosis.

Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can eat as much saturated fat and cholesterol as they want - whereas humans develop atherosclerosis, and often die from it.

If you do not believe me you might want to do some research on the topic. I want you to stay around here for many many more years to come. smile.gif


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klasaine
post Feb 21 2017, 06:54 PM
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If heart disease doesn't get you then cancer or a wayward bus probably will. You're a guy. Keep an eye on that prostate.
Nobody lives forever. Few even into their 90s. Anyone who makes it past 85 is on borrowed time.

Eat what you like (within reason) and include fruits and vegetables and lay off the sugar, don't smoke, don't be an alcoholic, get up from the fucking couch - exercise! and don't stress about stupid stuff or stuff you can't change.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 21 2017, 07:00 PM


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MonkeyDAthos
post Feb 21 2017, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 21 2017, 05:54 PM) *
Eat what you like (within reason) and include fruits and vegetables and lay off the sugar, get up from the fucking couch - exercise and don't stress about stupid stuff or stuff you can't change.


Agree 100%


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Tom51
post Feb 21 2017, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 21 2017, 05:47 PM) *
It's not debatable, it's a fact. Only herbivores can develop atherosclerosis.

Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can eat as much saturated fat and cholesterol as they want - whereas humans develop atherosclerosis, and often die from it.

If you do not believe me you might want to do some research on the topic. I want you to stay around here for many many more years to come. smile.gif



Cholesterol is so important for our body (brain, cell membranes, body own steroids etc...) that the liver produces it to supply enough and the body does not rely on external cholesterol sources. Its gets transported to by LDL protein where its needed and back to liver for recycling by HDL protein. (LDL HDL are lipid proteins but not Cholesterol) There is no to little correlation between cholesterol in what we eat and in the blood. So you can eat 4 eggs a day if you like, that does not impact your your health negatively or accelerates atherosclerosis.
There is much research out there that shows that saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids e.g. from butter , coconut oil, avocado ... even improve you lipid profile and inflammation is a bigger driver for atherosclerosis. (and here comes LDL, esp. small dense LDL particles into play) Sugar and excessive carbohydrates (high fructose corn sirup) in our food among others cause inflammation.

LDL depends on more factors than food only. If you exercise hard your doctor would measure a higher LDL next morning.
if you have a cold...high LDL. And so on. And that is not a bug its a normal regeneration in our body.

There is a ton of new research (last 20 years) in this matter available (from honored sources available in medical publications) which disproves some paradigms (or should we better call is narratives) about cholesterol.

And a last thing: the structure of fatty acids (e.g. in beef) change with their food too. Gras feed beef or wild animals (ruminants) is something totally different (in respect to fatty acids) to that what we get from "industrial production" where animals are feed differently.

oh....my practice time ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ Feb 21 2017, 07:01 PM) *
Cholesterol is so important for our body (brain, cell membranes, body own steroids etc...) that the liver produces it to supply enough and the body does not rely on external cholesterol sources. Its gets transported to by LDL protein where its needed and back to liver for recycling by HDL protein. (LDL HDL are lipid proteins but not Cholesterol) There is no to little correlation between cholesterol in what we eat and in the blood. So you can eat 4 eggs a day if you like, that does not impact your your health negatively or accelerates atherosclerosis.
There is much research out there that shows that saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids e.g. from butter , coconut oil, avocado ... even improve you lipid profile and inflammation is a bigger driver for atherosclerosis. (and here comes LDL, esp. small dense LDL particles into play) Sugar and excessive carbohydrates (high fructose corn sirup) in our food among others cause inflammation.

LDL depends on more factors than food only. If you exercise hard your doctor would measure a higher LDL next morning.
if you have a cold...high LDL. And so on. And that is not a bug its a normal regeneration in our body.

There is a ton of new research (last 20 years) in this matter available (from honored sources available in medical publications) which disproves some paradigms (or should we better call is narratives) about cholesterol.

And a last thing: the structure of fatty acids (e.g. in beef) change with their food too. Gras feed beef or wild animals (ruminants) is something totally different (in respect to fatty acids) to that what we get from "industrial production" where animals are feed differently.

oh....my practice time ohmy.gif ohmy.gif


Hey Tom - awesome to see you join in. Some things (but not many) are worth sacrificing practice time for.

There are indeed many confusing studies that show eating animal products do not raise LDL (bad) cholesterol, however all the recent ones I have heard about - have these things in common:

* They are population studies that do not calculate cholesterol levels at baseline, OR they use a sick population which is already at risk of heart disease (ie many normal meat eaters)

* they are often funded by the meat/egg/dairy industry

We have known since 1979 that the only studies that can prove the correlation we are looking for - are dietary change experiments that calculate cholesterol levels at baseline. Other studies are by design incapable of finding a link between saturated fats / cholesterol and heart disease, because of the genetic variation in baseline cholesterol levels.

So when healthy test subjects are used (that have low cholesterol levels at baseline) - we can clearly see that animal products increase serum cholesterol levels and thereby increase risk of heart disease.

If you find all this confusing, it might be easier to listen a larger organisation of professionals, like the American Dietetic Association. And they seem to agree with me smile.gif

This post has been edited by Kristofer Dahl: Feb 22 2017, 06:22 PM
Reason for edit: fixed syrum and generic to genetic


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AK Rich
post Feb 21 2017, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 21 2017, 08:47 AM) *
It's not debatable, it's a fact. Only herbivores can develop atherosclerosis.

Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can eat as much saturated fat and cholesterol as they want - whereas humans develop atherosclerosis, and often die from it.

If you do not believe me you might want to do some research on the topic. I want you to stay around here for many many more years to come. smile.gif


It just isn't so. Dogs in fact do suffer heart attacks due to atherosclerosis and coronary artery disease. Animals kept in captivity have also been found to have atherosclerotic lesions.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/cardio...atherosclerosis

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/cardio...dg_heart_attack

Thanks just the same for looking out though. smile.gif
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 21 2017, 06:54 PM) *
If heart disease doesn't get you then cancer or a wayward bus probably will. You're a guy. Keep an eye on that prostate.
Nobody lives forever. Few even into their 90s. Anyone who makes it past 85 is on borrowed time.

Eat what you like (within reason) and include fruits and vegetables and lay off the sugar, don't smoke, don't be an alcoholic, get up from the fucking couch - exercise! and don't stress about stupid stuff or stuff you can't change.


I would add: avoid animal products to give yourself many more years and save the planet for future generations.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 21 2017, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 21 2017, 08:48 PM) *


I obviously don't have a clue why these old, uncommon and diebetes sick dogs make up for an exception.

QUOTE (fkalich @ Feb 20 2017, 02:00 AM) *
Damn good composition and playing! Excellent. You should be proud of it.


Thanks a million Frank!! biggrin.gif Really glad you like it


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 22 2017, 10:37 PM
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I mean we are not going to be able breed enough cattle to keep up with demand. Does that make sense? There will be too much demand and supply won't be enough to meet it.

As a result, folks are going to figure out ways to grow meat in labs. Without hurting animals. That's my point wink.gif

The "Good News" is that the only long term, sustainable option, is growing beef in the lab. Not growing animals, just beef. They already have places working on this. It eliminates the need to have animals involved at all. That's the good part smile.gif

Here is an article from the washington post that may explain it better to ya.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/hea...m=.bd67014c2445
Todd

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 21 2017, 03:12 AM) *
Not sure what you mean? We breed cattle, we don't search for them in the wild. The unbelievable amount needed to supply people with meat & dairy is one of the big reasons why our planet is about to succumb.

The unwanted surplus of baby calves from the dairy industry is thrown into the garbage bin or sold as cheap meat. If China wants to ramp up meat production I don't see what is preventing them (except common sense of course).

The only thing that will stop us in the long run is a global & fatal environmental disaster - but this is hardly good news?


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 22 2017, 10:39 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 22 2017, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 22 2017, 10:37 PM) *
The "Good News" is that the only long term, sustainable option, is growing beef in the lab. Not growing animals, just beef. They already have places working on this. It eliminates the need to have animals involved at all. That's the good part smile.gif


Unfortunately that meat has the same health implications for humans.

If you are looking for meat alternatives, that market is exploding in this very moment. You can now find plant based substitutes that taste and feel the same (if not better).

Here is a vegan burger:

Attached Image

(You can google for vegan meat alternatives if you want to see more)


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klasaine
post Feb 23 2017, 03:14 PM
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Move to the west coast of the United States.
Besides the coolest guitar stores on the planet we also boast the top 3 vegan/vegetarian friendly cities in the country:
Portland, Or
Los Angeles, Ca
San Francisco, Ca

Ref; Conde Nast and Peta


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 23 2017, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 23 2017, 03:14 PM) *
Move to the west coast of the United States.
Besides the coolest guitar stores on the planet we also boast the top 3 vegan/vegetarian friendly cities in the country:
Portland, Or
Los Angeles, Ca
San Francisco, Ca

Ref; Conde Nast and Peta


Yeah I wish we had as much here! We can def see a trend here as well, but the variety is still a bit limited (especially in grocery stores).

However in most Asian/Indian/Middle eastern restaurants it is pretty easy to get a good vegan plate.


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klasaine
post Feb 23 2017, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 23 2017, 07:29 AM) *
However in most Asian/Indian/Middle eastern restaurants it is pretty easy to get a good vegan plate.

Yeah, our west coast has huge Asian and Middle Eastern communities (and South Indian) adding to our already giant hippie vegetarian ranks. It's relatively easy to to be a vegan here. Hell, I can take you to a restaurant that classifies food according to your blood type.


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