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> Offended By The Trump/hitler Comparison..?, Here is something else to discuss: My new track!
AK Rich
post Feb 23 2017, 06:13 PM
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Hey Kris, I haven't seen anything you have said that leads me to believe that you might be in favor of this but I want to ask you. Do you believe that the production and consumption of meat products should be banned?
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Todd Simpson
post Feb 23 2017, 06:16 PM
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True smile.gif It's still meat, still gonna clog arteries smile.gif But folks are gonna eat meat. No stopping that. Also, more and more folks are starting to eat meat as they get out of poverty, as in China's growing middle class. At least with "lab grown" meat, we can eliminate the cruelty to animals that happens in large scale meat industries. That was really my point.

You can't make the decision for people to not eat meat, or not drink booze, or take drugs, but at least we can eliminate the suffering of animals associated with the consumption of beef smile.gif That was my point in all this.

Of course, one can hope that folks start taking a healthier approach. But I think it's going to be a while. As folks come out of poverty and start eating more meat as a status symbol, meat will continue to be in demand. Just like Chicken. In China, Kentucky Fried Chicken is considered a "Luxury" brand for example. So lab grown chicken will be needed as well.

Also, Chines love ABALONE which is illegal to poach, but still finds it's way to market. Eventually all of these delights can be g grown in lab and hopefully have some of their negative impacts reduced by science smile.gif


Todd

Gonna add some music to this. For some reason, this song pops in my head every time I'm in this thread!


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 22 2017, 06:04 PM) *
Unfortunately that meat has the same health implications for humans.

If you are looking for meat alternatives, that market is exploding in this very moment. You can now find plant based substitutes that taste and feel the same (if not better).

Here is a vegan burger:

[attachment=45908:xwaukk6f...rilflpgu.jpeg]

(You can google for vegan meat alternatives if you want to see more)


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 23 2017, 06:22 PM


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Mertay
post Feb 23 2017, 06:23 PM
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Personal observation but to me meat seems to be consumed most by middle class. The rich seems to prefer food that has more complex recepie and taste as apposed to a simple steak.


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klasaine
post Feb 23 2017, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 23 2017, 10:23 AM) *
Personal observation but to me meat seems to be consumed most by middle class. The rich seems to prefer food that has more complex recepie and taste as apposed to a simple steak.


Depends. Good meat is expensive in the states.
A 'simple' steak (NY, Ribeye or fillet) that is from a free range and mostly grass fed steer - cut, aged and cooked perfectly and served with vegetables and a glass of wine or a beer - commands some of the highest prices here in the US.
*Good sushi is probably a bit pricier.


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Mertay
post Feb 23 2017, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 23 2017, 05:50 PM) *
Depends. Good meat is expensive in the states.
A 'simple' steak (NY, Ribeye or fillet) that is from a free range and mostly grass fed steer - cut, aged and cooked perfectly and served with vegetables and a glass of wine or a beer - commands some of the highest prices here in the US.
*Good sushi is probably a bit pricier.


True, but my comment was more about general/daily eating habbits rather than the expense of the food (excluding rip-off places asking more for a salad than the beef you mentioned). Like, they probably eat 2 times a week of that expensive steak and the rest healthy french or chinese food while the middle class consumes 5-6 meat based meals (chichen,meatball spagetti etc.) and the rest basic vegetable food.

But thinking about it this can as well be location specific. I for example live in the west side of Turkey (close to Greece) as fish, herb and vegetables were historically consumed. The rich here atleast seems more curious of food made with the best of these ingredients (food thats harder to cook and needs expertise).

But in east (close to Iraq), till about 50-60 years ago (before dam's were built) they focused on animals cause though the land wasn't a desert there wasn't enough water to grow vegetables. I never lived there but guess the rich probably prefers consuming expensive (farm grown) meat there cause I know they find Aegean food very "boring" to eat biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 23 2017, 07:51 PM
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That's my point smile.gif The rising middle class in places like China is what is going to create the massive demand for beef.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 23 2017, 01:23 PM) *
Personal observation but to me meat seems to be consumed most by middle class. The rich seems to prefer food that has more complex recepie and taste as apposed to a simple steak.



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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 23 2017, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 23 2017, 06:13 PM) *
Hey Kris, I haven't seen anything you have said that leads me to believe that you might be in favor of this but I want to ask you. Do you believe that the production and consumption of meat products should be banned?

I certainly wouldn't mind, though I don't believe in that method.

However I do believe that everyone who eats animal products deserves to know how it impacts them, the planet and the animals. That is why I am truly pissed at the industry. Not because they produce animal products when there is a demand - but because they do all they can to manipulate and confuse the masses, and thereby jeopardising our future in so many different ways. In my weak moments I wish them the same fate as the animals.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 23 2017, 06:16 PM) *
Of course, one can hope that folks start taking a healthier approach. But I think it's going to be a while. As folks come out of poverty and start eating more meat as a status symbol, meat will continue to be in demand. Just like Chicken. In China, Kentucky Fried Chicken is considered a "Luxury" brand for example. So lab grown chicken will be needed as well.

I wonder if the Chinese middle class will find it equally appealing to smoke cigarettes? Eating animal products is just as cool as smoking was 30 years ago. When people finally got it, they stopped (if they could).


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klasaine
post Feb 23 2017, 10:25 PM
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Smoking is still cool. Especially with a burger and a cup of coffee.





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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 23 2017, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 23 2017, 10:25 PM) *
Smoking is still cool. Especially with a burger and a cup of coffee.


I am much more impressed by a cool chord melody tongue.gif


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bleez
post Feb 23 2017, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 23 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Smoking is still cool. Especially with a burger and a cup of coffee.

laugh.gif That made me LOL!

I now imagine hanging out with Ken is like -




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You say 'minor pentatonic ' like it's a bad thing
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jstcrsn
post Feb 24 2017, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 23 2017, 11:24 PM) *
I am much more impressed by a cool chord melody tongue.gif

are we talking milk and cheeses too
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klasaine
post Feb 24 2017, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Feb 23 2017, 03:54 PM) *
laugh.gif That made me LOL!

I now imagine hanging out with Ken is like -


More like this ...

Attached Image

And this ...

Attached Image

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 24 2017, 03:42 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 24 2017, 09:54 PM
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IT's going to be a while I think smile.gif Most of the world is just now getting to the point, financially, where eating beef products is even possible. We take it for granted of course. So folks just entering the middle classes will probably have to go through the same things western cultures went through and even then, only some will decide to go vegan/vegetarian etc.

For example, the States have wads of vegans but carnivore's are still in the majority and probably will be for some time to come. So the best we can hope for, especially short term, is to at least relieve the suffering of animals. The suffering of people seems to be self induced smile.gif

here is dennis leary talking about wanting to indulge from way back when in Demolition Man.
Then of course Rocky learns that Meat and most anything else "not healthy" has been made illegal, including foul language.




Sorry to use double vids, but both were so funny I had to add them smile.gif Old, very bad movies, are great for quotes. smile.gif


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 23 2017, 04:37 PM) *
I certainly wouldn't mind, though I don't believe in that method.

However I do believe that everyone who eats animal products deserves to know how it impacts them, the planet and the animals. That is why I am truly pissed at the industry. Not because they produce animal products when there is a demand - but because they do all they can to manipulate and confuse the masses, and thereby jeopardising our future in so many different ways. In my weak moments I wish them the same fate as the animals.


I wonder if the Chinese middle class will find it equally appealing to smoke cigarettes? Eating animal products is just as cool as smoking was 30 years ago. When people finally got it, they stopped (if they could).


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 24 2017, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 24 2017, 01:21 AM) *
are we talking milk and cheeses too


Yes, all animal products. Milk is a chapter on its own, btw

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 24 2017, 09:54 PM) *
IT's going to be a while I think smile.gif Most of the world is just now getting to the point, financially, where eating beef products is even possible. We take it for granted of course. So folks just entering the middle classes will probably have to go through the same things western cultures went through and even then, only some will decide to go vegan/vegetarian etc.

For example, the States have wads of vegans but carnivore's are still in the majority and probably will be for some time to come. So the best we can hope for, especially short term, is to at least relieve the suffering of animals. The suffering of people seems to be self induced smile.gif


Don't be so pessimistic, it's a very fast growing movement!

The UK has seen an increase of 360% of the last 10 years, with currently 0,5 million vegans. I think the US has similar numbers. And these are just the people who follow the diet strictly - so it does not give the whole picture.

Basically when people realise there are no logical reasons to continue - they tend to try to make the switch. Especially younger people who don't have the cultural/social aspects as deeply rooted.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 24 2017, 11:42 PM
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Well, here in the states, Meat is sorta like Guns, it's almost built in to our culture. It's got massive negative outcomes, but it's still just sorta there. One always hopes for the best to be sure smile.gif But like I was saying, at the very least, we can put a stop to animal cruelty. Stopping human self cruelty, as it were, may take a bit longer smile.gif

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 24 2017, 05:33 PM) *
Yes, all animal products. Milk is a chapter on its own, btw



Don't be so pessimistic, it's a very fast growing movement!

The UK has seen an increase of 360% of the last 10 years, with currently 0,5 million vegans. I think the US has similar numbers. And these are just the people who follow the diet strictly - so it does not give the whole picture.

Basically when people realise there are no logical reasons to continue - they tend to try to make the switch. Especially younger people who don't have the cultural/social aspects as deeply rooted.



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klasaine
post Feb 25 2017, 01:20 AM
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Dairy too?
Now them's is fightin' words.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 25 2017, 08:23 AM
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If we get rid of Milk Shakes and Ice Cream, why live? smile.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 24 2017, 08:20 PM) *
Dairy too?
Now them's is fightin' words.



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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 25 2017, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 24 2017, 11:42 PM) *
Well, here in the states, Meat is sorta like Guns, it's almost built in to our culture.

I hear you. Same here, traditional Swedish food is nothing but healthy, it's just meat, dairy and blood (!). But again, smoking was also something everyone did until people started understanding you actually die from it. I don't know how it is in the US but Swedes have almost completely stopped smoking, and there are almost no public places that allow it.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 25 2017, 08:23 AM) *
If we get rid of Milk Shakes and Ice Cream, why live? smile.gif


Don't get rid of it then! Even here we have tons of cruelty free ice-cream to choose form.

generic vegan ice-cream search:

https://www.google.se/search?q=vegan+ice+cr...ZypBsIQ_AUIBigB


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klasaine
post Feb 25 2017, 03:24 PM
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I could give up ice cream but not (real) cheese.

Cruelty free makes for better tasting dairy anyway. We run the gamut out here from mega industrial dairy farms to small, independent, family owned dairies (and ranches). Local grown, organic milk and yogurt (and meat) is easy to find, even in the bigger chain supermarkets. The price can be prohibitive though.

*In keeping with the WWII theme, we call Cali's biggest industrial meat and dairy region Cowschwitz. The Harris Ranch Farm in Coalinga Ca. ... http://www.invisible5.org/index.php?page=fresnocoalinga
In fairness, the cattle are primarily grazed and grass fed on several western ranches before they get to the Harris Ranch feed lot where they then get a mix of corn, grain and grass before being harvested. The photos generally posted on-line are of the cows in the feed lot near the end of the 'cycle'.



This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 25 2017, 04:00 PM


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jstcrsn
post Feb 25 2017, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 24 2017, 10:33 PM) *
Yes, all animal products. Milk is a chapter on its own, btw



Don't be so pessimistic, it's a very fast growing movement!

The UK has seen an increase of 360% of the last 10 years, with currently 0,5 million vegans. I think the US has similar numbers. And these are just the people who follow the diet strictly - so it does not give the whole picture.

Basically when people realise there are no logical reasons to continue - they tend to try to make the switch. Especially younger people who don't have the cultural/social aspects as deeply rooted.
has there ever been any thought given to the amount of produce needed to switch the whole world to vegans and would said world be able to sustain protein intake , cause my main concern are the vegans that are emaciated due to lack of
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