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> Offended By The Trump/hitler Comparison..?, Here is something else to discuss: My new track!
Todd Simpson
post Feb 25 2017, 08:55 PM
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Very true smile.gif The end of the line is often where the really rough pix come from. Free range products are available, but like you say, the cost can get in the way. I"m ok with eating beef/chicken "ish" products that get grown in a lab and just leave real animals out it. Perhaps they can get rid of some of the unlhealthy bits of meat eating using science as well. That would be ideal imho smile.gif I'm prone to enjoy a nice burger or bbq (barcecue is almost a religion in parts of the South), so creating a way to get folks needs met without the health problems, and animal issues would be great smile.gif So science better get cracking!!

Todd

QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 25 2017, 10:24 AM) *
I could give up ice cream but not (real) cheese.

Cruelty free makes for better tasting dairy anyway. We run the gamut out here from mega industrial dairy farms to small, independent, family owned dairies (and ranches). Local grown, organic milk and yogurt (and meat) is easy to find, even in the bigger chain supermarkets. The price can be prohibitive though.

*In keeping with the WWII theme, we call Cali's biggest industrial meat and dairy region Cowschwitz. The Harris Ranch Farm in Coalinga Ca. ... http://www.invisible5.org/index.php?page=fresnocoalinga
In fairness, the cattle are primarily grazed and grass fed on several western ranches before they get to the Harris Ranch feed lot where they then get a mix of corn, grain and grass before being harvested. The photos generally posted on-line are of the cows in the feed lot near the end of the 'cycle'.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 25 2017, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 25 2017, 08:38 PM) *
has there ever been any thought given to the amount of produce needed to switch the whole world to vegans and would said world be able to sustain protein intake , cause my main concern are the vegans that are emaciated due to lack of


Protein is not a problem. We are herbivores and have no problems developing large muscle mass by eating plant based protein.

And if everyone would become vegan the 56 billion farmed animals we breed an kill every year would no longer burden the planet (remember those animals are mostly "vegan" - and an insane amount of soy etc are needed to feed them.)


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klasaine
post Feb 25 2017, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 25 2017, 02:59 PM) *
those animals are mostly "vegan" - and an insane amount of soy etc are needed to feed them.)


Yeah, as much as I love meat - it's pretty well established that using the same space for plant based agriculture is a much more efficient use of land resources in many regards. I can't remember the exact statistic but I believe that the US alone could feed double it's current population with the grain that's used just to feed livestock.

I'm not giving up meat but I am fully aware of it's impact large and small. My grandfather was a butcher and also owned a (Kosher) meat packing plant with his brother. I've seen it raised, killed, processed and packed.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 26 2017, 12:07 AM


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jstcrsn
post Feb 26 2017, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 25 2017, 10:59 PM) *
Protein is not a problem. We are herbivores and have no problems developing large muscle mass by eating plant based protein.

And if everyone would become vegan the 56 billion farmed animals we breed an kill every year would no longer burden the planet (remember those animals are mostly "vegan" - and an insane amount of soy etc are needed to feed them.)
so give me my diet , I work construction and need tons of protein and carbs . I got 8 kids so money is a big issue , how would you start if You were me . I don"t have an issue with farming animals and think the global warming ? green house gas scare is out of proportion . But a better diet that yields benefits is always an option.

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klasaine
post Feb 26 2017, 04:30 PM
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There are a ton of options ... https://www.google.com/search?q=vegetarian+...-8&oe=utf-8
But are you gonna be OK with the taste and texture?

As you would probably imagine there's plenty of Vegetarian and Vegan construction workers and athletes out here in CA.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 26 2017, 04:32 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 26 2017, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 26 2017, 12:50 AM) *
so give me my diet , I work construction and need tons of protein and carbs . I got 8 kids so money is a big issue , how would you start if You were me . I don"t have an issue with farming animals and think the global warming ? green house gas scare is out of proportion . But a better diet that yields benefits is always an option.

Vegan diets are the cheapest! However many people opt for mock meats (etc) during the first transitional phase - and those cost as much as real meat.

If you have been eating greens & fruits up to this point - then the biggest change will probably be to get familiar with

* legumes (beans, lentils etc) as those will be your primary protein source - and:

* seeds and nuts. These are needed for lots of healthy stuff (like omega 3, iron, zinc etc).

The key, as with any diet - is to eat as diverse as possible.

Also worth noting, is that if you go completely vegan - you need to supplement with vitamin B12.

Personally I haven't really had any problems adapting - but I love trying new stuff and this has opened up to a new world of exciting new foods from all around the world. I am absolutely loving it, and more importantly I have more energy and can be more productive.


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Mertay
post Feb 27 2017, 08:16 AM
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biggrin.gif

http://www.avclub.com/article/president-tr...-ketchup-251081


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jstcrsn
post Feb 27 2017, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 27 2017, 08:16 AM) *

This is why he is President , you can smell the condescension from the smug holes( that think they can tell everything about anybody because how they like their steak cooked) and America is sick of that. It is going to be so fun watching their tantrums for the next 4 years and if they don't learn anything , maybe 8

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Rammikin
post Feb 27 2017, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 26 2017, 07:44 PM) *
The key, as with any diet - is to eat as diverse as possible.


This is especially so with a vegan diet. The problem is not getting a sufficient amount of protein, the problem is getting a sufficient variety of amino acids with a vegan diet. A diverse diet when eating vegan is critically important to avoid this problem.

I'm with Ken. While not vegan, I try to be aware of the impact of what I eat and moderate my habits accordingly. In any case, I do enjoy a good soy sausage smile.gif.



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klasaine
post Feb 27 2017, 05:48 PM
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There's a Mexican place near me that offers vegan 'soy'rizo (chorizo - Mexican sausage) tacos, burritos, sopes, etc. I like it better than the real chorizo.

I also like ketchup on my steak. Even a really good steak. I like ketchup.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 27 2017, 06:31 PM
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He's President because he doesn't know how to properly order / enjoy steak? That's a new one smile.gif I guess the dems better start asking for folks to burn their steaks as well then! smile.gif

Todd
QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 27 2017, 08:38 AM) *
This is why he is President , you can smell the condescension from the smug holes( that think they can tell everything about anybody because how they like their steak cooked) and America is sick of that. It is going to be so fun watching their tantrums for the next 4 years and if they don't learn anything , maybe 8


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AK Rich
post Feb 27 2017, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 27 2017, 08:48 AM) *
There's a Mexican place near me that offers vegan 'soy'rizo (chorizo - Mexican sausage) tacos, burritos, sopes, etc. I like it better than the real chorizo.

I also like ketchup on my steak. Even a really good steak. I like ketchup.


You sound like my old man and my brother, especially when my brother was younger, he would put ketchup on anything and everything, especially vegetables biggrin.gif . I never seen either of them put it on a steak though. I rarely put anything on my steak, especially if it is a really good one. Every once in a while I like some A1 steak sauce.
And oh how I love chorizo! wub.gif

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Feb 27 2017, 06:38 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 27 2017, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Feb 27 2017, 03:55 PM) *
This is especially so with a vegan diet. The problem is not getting a sufficient amount of protein, the problem is getting a sufficient variety of amino acids with a vegan diet. A diverse diet when eating vegan is critically important to avoid this problem.

This is also an old myth, almost all food sources have a complete amino acid profile. The idea that vegans have to combine protein sources was popularised by the Vogue magazine in 1975. Again a falsehood with devastating health effect on people, as animal proteins themselves promote cancer cell growth through numerous pathways (on top of the cholesterol and saturated fat contained in all animal products).

There are lots of vegan athletes, bodybuilders and even a world record holding strongman (Patrik Baboumian).


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Rammikin
post Feb 28 2017, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 27 2017, 10:57 PM) *
almost all food sources have a complete amino acid profile.


For the purpose of getting the essential amino acids, variety is more important in a vegetarian diet than in a carnivorous diet. Pretty much any serving of meat or eggs you eat would give you enough of all of them. On the other hand, you can't say that any vegetable will also give you enough of all of them. That simply isn't true. In any case, relax Kristofer, nobody is saying there is anything wrong with a vegan diet smile.gif.




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jstcrsn
post Feb 28 2017, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 27 2017, 06:31 PM) *
He's President because he doesn't know how to properly order / enjoy steak? That's a new one smile.gif I guess the dems better start asking for folks to burn their steaks as well then! smile.gif

Todd

Do I really need to explain it . or are you just trolling

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 27 2017, 11:57 PM) *
This is also an old myth, almost all food sources have a complete amino acid profile. The idea that vegans have to combine protein sources was popularised by the Vogue magazine in 1975. Again a falsehood with devastating health effect on people, as animal proteins themselves promote cancer cell growth through numerous pathways (on top of the cholesterol and saturated fat contained in all animal products).

There are lots of vegan athletes, bodybuilders and even a world record holding strongman (Patrik Baboumian).

so I bought some veggie burgers , I love cheeses , not so much milk , but all I eat during the day is cottage cheese , so I wil start slow andl see how it goes

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Feb 28 2017, 02:07 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Feb 28 2017, 01:54 PM
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Just responding to what you said? If that's the reason trump won, then yeah, dems better learn how to order burned steaks!! It evidently wins elections! Who knew that ruining a good piece of beef could win you the presidency? He even owned a steak company for a while, so I guess he's burned quite a few of them.

For folks that actually know how to enjoy a steak, burning is just poor form. If you are gonna order a steak well done, just save the steak and the chef, and just order a pork chop or a hamburger. Don't waste good steak for no reason. But hey, it's America so folks can order all the burned steak they want.


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 27 2017, 08:49 PM) *
Do I really need to explain it . or are you just trolling


so I bought some veggie burgers , I love cheeses , not so much milk , but all I eat during the day is cottage cheese , so I wil start slow andl see how it goes



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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 28 2017, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Feb 28 2017, 01:31 AM) *
For the purpose of getting the essential amino acids, variety is more important in a vegetarian diet than in a carnivorous diet. Pretty much any serving of meat or eggs you eat would give you enough of all of them. On the other hand, you can't say that any vegetable will also give you enough of all of them. That simply isn't true. In any case, relax Kristofer, nobody is saying there is anything wrong with a vegan diet smile.gif.


Apologies for not being relaxed when you spread misunderstandings that needlessly kill humans and animals.

* There are 9 amino acids which the human body cannot produce on its own, those are referred to "essential" amino acids

* Foods lacking those are regarded as incomplete

* The only food lacking a complete such profile is gelatin (which is not vegan)

So when you are saying "you can't say that any vegetable will also give you enough of all of them”. What exactly are you referring to? Please clarify


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Rammikin
post Feb 28 2017, 02:35 PM
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Kristofer, I'm agreeing with you that a diverse diet is important. This is especially so since some vegetables have insufficient quantities of the essential amino acids. You're making me regret that I went to the trouble of posting a reply to agree with your position. Remind me to never do that again smile.gif.


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jstcrsn
post Feb 28 2017, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 28 2017, 01:54 PM) *
Just responding to what you said? If that's the reason trump won, then yeah, dems better learn how to order burned steaks!! It evidently wins elections! Who knew that ruining a good piece of beef could win you the presidency? He even owned a steak company for a while, so I guess he's burned quite a few of them.

For folks that actually know how to enjoy a steak, burning is just poor form. If you are gonna order a steak well done, just save the steak and the chef, and just order a pork chop or a hamburger. Don't waste good steak for no reason. But hey, it's America so folks can order all the burned steak they want.

I guess I would have thought that you would see the analogy showing the superiority complex of one with such attitudes ^
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 28 2017, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 28 2017, 01:49 AM) *
so I bought some veggie burgers , I love cheeses , not so much milk , but all I eat during the day is cottage cheese , so I wil start slow andl see how it goes


That's awesome to hear man , congratualtions! biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Feb 28 2017, 02:35 PM) *
Kristofer, I'm agreeing with you that a diverse diet is important. This is especially so since some vegetables have insufficient quantities of the essential amino acids. You're making me regret that I went to the trouble of posting a reply to agree with your position. Remind me to never do that again smile.gif.


Yeah I guess the point we're trying to get across is that just a because a diet is vegan - it is not necessarily healthy. You can die early on a vegan junk food diet for example. And you can develop deficiencies on a 100% "raw" diet.

So the point is to eat with as much variation as possible. But there is also widely spread misconception that it is somehow hard to get proteins on a vegan diet - and this is simply not correct, unless you completely exclude legumes. So to clarify, by excluding legumes you would miss the "variation" part which obviously is a keyword here.


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