Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Building Arrangements
PosterBoy
post Feb 17 2017, 02:18 PM
Post #1


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.511
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



I thought a discussion about building arrangements for songs would be really good.

Often we focus on soloing etc, but the ideas for layered guitar parts, bass parts and how they help a song progress or fill out often doesn't get talked about.

I'm thinking about taking a simple chord progressions like I V vi IV and recording different ideas to help me with my song writing

Anyone want to chime in ?


--------------------
My SoundCloud

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Ibanez Rg770FM
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Epiphone 335
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 17 2017, 02:43 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.857
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Good idea! Here I am ready to hear and comment! biggrin.gif


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
superize
post Feb 17 2017, 02:51 PM
Post #3


Ultimate Tone Guru
Group Icon

Group: Student Instructor
Posts: 4.343
Joined: 26-July 07
From: Glommersträsk. Sweden
Member No.: 2.410



I am in the process of arrenging a song i wrote right now so i will upload something when i am done


--------------------
My Gear

Ibanez RG
Jackson js30 warrior
jackson rr24
Line 6 Spider III amp
Line 6 pod xt live
Washburn acoustic

Youtube Account
My bands Myspace


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Feb 20 2017, 09:03 AM
Post #4


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.511
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



One song I love for the arrangement, both all the guitar tracks and vocal tracks is this


This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Feb 20 2017, 09:03 AM


--------------------
My SoundCloud

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Ibanez Rg770FM
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Epiphone 335
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
superize
post Feb 20 2017, 09:33 PM
Post #5


Ultimate Tone Guru
Group Icon

Group: Student Instructor
Posts: 4.343
Joined: 26-July 07
From: Glommersträsk. Sweden
Member No.: 2.410



Here is an arrengement i build for a song i am writing

Attached File  Change_the_world_test.mp3 ( 4.26MB ) Number of downloads: 24


--------------------
My Gear

Ibanez RG
Jackson js30 warrior
jackson rr24
Line 6 Spider III amp
Line 6 pod xt live
Washburn acoustic

Youtube Account
My bands Myspace


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Feb 20 2017, 09:45 PM
Post #6


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.294
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Maybe a good place to start would be to ask yourself, "why" you like the arrangement? Then "what" about the arrangement you like. Once you can answer those question for yourself, your closer to understanding arranging in general imho smile.gif So once you are ready, share . your answer here in the thread so we can comment smile.gif

QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Feb 20 2017, 04:03 AM) *
One song I love for the arrangement, both all the guitar tracks and vocal tracks is this



so far so good I'd say smile.gif Maybe tell us a bit about the arrangement and why you chose to arrange it the way you did? Then we can comment from there.

QUOTE (superize @ Feb 20 2017, 04:33 PM) *
Here is an arrengement i build for a song i am writing

Attached File  Change_the_world_test.mp3 ( 4.26MB ) Number of downloads: 24



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
superize
post Feb 20 2017, 09:59 PM
Post #7


Ultimate Tone Guru
Group Icon

Group: Student Instructor
Posts: 4.343
Joined: 26-July 07
From: Glommersträsk. Sweden
Member No.: 2.410




so far so good I'd say smile.gif Maybe tell us a bit about the arrangement and why you chose to arrange it the way you did? Then we can comment from there.
[/quote]

Sure.

I wrote this song maybe 1.5-2 years ago and then it was only for acoustic guitar.

Now when i started arrenging it i wanted it to have a rock ballad feel. Start the song with only acoustic guitar and build it up for the chourus and there i will introduce the electric guitar that i at this point playing open chords.

for the second verse i wanted kind of the same feel as in the first. To keep things more interesting i added drums, bass and a piano part as i know that is very common for this kind of music and it sounds kinda nice.

In the end i am thinking about doing a doubble chourus before a guitar solo and end it like it started with only acoustic guitar and maybe some vocal lines as well.

So to sum things up i want it to start slow and build itself up as it goes on and then end like it started.


--------------------
My Gear

Ibanez RG
Jackson js30 warrior
jackson rr24
Line 6 Spider III amp
Line 6 pod xt live
Washburn acoustic

Youtube Account
My bands Myspace


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Feb 21 2017, 03:34 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.942
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



One of my fave subjects.

Check out this Paul Weller tune. It seems relatively straight forward but there's a lot of stuff and things going on throughout ...



It opens w/solo electric guitar arpeggios (this is the chorus form/chords).
At the end of the phrase he adds a simple flute melody for one measure (this reappears throughout the song).
The 2nd X thru the drums come in but they don't enter until a little percussion bell is hit on beat 1 (ear candy).
Also the chorus bkgrnd vox enter.
*All that just in the intro.

Pre-verse rhythm and lead guitar parts that will foreshadow the ...

Verse - first half (8 bars) straightforward.
Verse - second half adds keys (organ/synth) and that little perc/bell hit enters again.

Chorus - w/vox but guitar is back to arpeggios.
2nd x - adds that little flute line at the end of the phrase.
Adds an ostinato keys part (little morse code sounding thing)
*Drum pattern changes.

Pre-verse rhythm guitar again.

Verse - same as before.

Choruses - add the ostinato keys part and the flute melody again.

BRIDGE - totally different and it's in a 1/2 time feel.

Choruses - same as before.

Breakdown - chorus chords but the part is flanged, the drums drop out then enter with a fill.
The synth or organ ostinato enters again. Bkgrnd vox are in and the flute plays that little melody at the end of the phrases.

Guitar breakdown again - this time flanged and drums in 1/2 time feel again.

End - rhythm guitar phrase 4 times w/breaks.

That's an "arrangement".
*Paul Weller was the leader of The Jam in the late 70s and early 80s. The Style Council, mid to late 80s and then solo up to now.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 22 2017, 04:41 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 22 2017, 02:08 PM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.857
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Feb 20 2017, 05:03 AM) *
One song I love for the arrangement, both all the guitar tracks and vocal tracks is this



When analysing music I usually start by writing down the structure, and chord progressions for each part. Once I have it, I get into each part and see how it's arranged. What each instrument is doing, regarding performance, tone, and even how it's placed in the mix.

The more you do this with similar tracks, the more elements you'll get about it.


In this case, I can hear important connection between this track and some Blink 182 songs (I think that Travis recorded drums on this track), so getting into some other similar bands songs can be also helpful.


Once you have the full analysis of this track, it's a good idea to write down some elements that you consider important or that capture your attention. This should be a short list with a few words that make you remember about the elements when you get back to the writing.

Feel free to write your analysis here, so we can give feedback or comment about missing stuff.



QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 21 2017, 11:34 AM) *
One of my fave subjects.

Check out this Paul Weller tune. It seems relatively straight forward but there's a lot of stuff and things going on throughout ...



It opens w/solo electric guitar arpeggios (this is the chorus form/chords).
At the end of the phrase he adds a simple flute melody for one measure (this reappears throughout the song).
The 2nd X thru the drums come in but they don't enter until a little percussion bell is hit on beat 1 (ear candy).
Also the chorus bkgrnd vox enter.
*All that just in the intro.

Pre-verse rhythm and lead guitar parts that will foreshadow the ...

Verse - first half (8 bars) straightforward.
Verse - second half adds keys (organ/synth) and that little perc/bell hit enters again.

Chorus - w/vox but guitar is back to arpeggios.
2nd x - adds that little flute line at the end of the phrase.
Adds an ostinato keys part (little morse code sounding thing)
*Drum pattern changes.

Pre-verse rhythm guitar again.

Verse - same as before.

Choruses - add the ostinato keys part and the flute melody again.

BRIDGE - totally different and it's in a 1/2 time feel.

Choruses - same as before.

Breakdown - chorus chords but the part is flanged, the drums drop out then enter with a fill.
The synth or organ ostinato enters again. Bkgrnd vox are in and the flute plays that little melody at the end of the phrases.

Guitar breakdown again - this time flanged and drums in 1/2 time feel again.

End - rhythm guitar phrase 4 times w/breaks.

That's an "arrangement".
*Paul Weller was the leader of The Jam in the late 70s and early 80s. The Style Council, mid to late 80s and then solo up to now.



GREAT Stuff! This should help as reference on how to analyse a track. Thanks mate!


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Feb 23 2017, 05:27 PM
Post #10


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.294
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



I'm digging it smile.gif I would suggest though that maybe having an extra singer, to do harmony over the chorus and a "call and response" over the verse would help the overall dynamics of the song to stick out more and be more memorable. It's possible you are stringing out the intro a pinch to long for the modern listener, assuming you want to attract the modern listener of course smile.gif

Todd


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bleez
post Feb 26 2017, 07:53 PM
Post #11


Experienced Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.207
Joined: 4-November 11
From: Scotland
Member No.: 14.292



QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 21 2017, 02:34 PM) *
One of my fave subjects.

Check out this Paul Weller tune. It seems relatively straight forward but there's a lot of stuff and things going on throughout ...


Unfortunately I cant add much to the discussion but its a very interesting thread.
Just wanted to say... This Paul Weller track is amazing! Ive been listening to the whole album its from all weekend, just brilliant and some ridiculously tasteful guitar tones.
thanks for posting this track, dude biggrin.gif


--------------------


You say 'minor pentatonic ' like it's a bad thing
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Feb 27 2017, 05:35 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.942
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



QUOTE (bleez @ Feb 26 2017, 11:53 AM) *
Unfortunately I cant add much to the discussion but its a very interesting thread.
Just wanted to say... This Paul Weller track is amazing! Ive been listening to the whole album its from all weekend, just brilliant and some ridiculously tasteful guitar tones.
thanks for posting this track, dude biggrin.gif


You're welcome! Wildwood is a great record.
Paul Weller, though not what I would call 'underrated', is definitely under appreciated. The Jam, Style Council, as a Solo artist - he's had a lot of hits over the last 38 years and has influenced dozens of bands and artists. He's the real deal.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd November 2017 - 01:49 PM