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> Ngd 2003 Ibanez Sa160
yoncopin
post Feb 26 2017, 11:48 PM
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In another thread I mentioned selling off my Fenders and had my eye out for something to take their place. I've got a few things I was looking for - 22 frets, flat fretboard, HSS, non-locking tremolo. So I was poking around my local Guitar Center and found this beauty. I can't believe it was on sale for $180. Needless to say, I bought it on the spot. After a fret polish and setup, it's plays like new and sounds awesome. Not that these are that expensive new, but the current finishes are kind of too much for my tastes. Such a deal I can't believe it...



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Rammikin
post Feb 27 2017, 02:37 AM
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Solid mahogany body. Excellent bargain!


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Mertay
post Feb 27 2017, 08:19 AM
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A year ago I was so close to buying one but the seller (a friend of mine) decided to keep it.

Its definitly one of those unknown but awesome guitars, hard to find a sound it can't get even with stock PU's. Very good find, enjoy smile.gif


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Phil66
post Feb 27 2017, 01:40 PM
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Nice one Brian, good find wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 27 2017, 06:28 PM
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Super congrats! Any NGD is a good thing IMHO smile.gif An IBBY NGD is best of all smile.gif


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AK Rich
post Feb 27 2017, 06:42 PM
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Congrats Yoncopin, play it like you stole it!
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yoncopin
post Feb 27 2017, 06:48 PM
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Thanks everyone smile.gif I'm really excited about it. I'm going to put a spare JB in the bridge and tweak the electronics a bit. I'm going to try an experiment with a pair of these for the neck & middle, GuitarFetish KP - Premium Overwound Alnico Strat Pickups. I'm hoping they make a big difference without investing too much.


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Mertay
post Feb 27 2017, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Feb 27 2017, 05:48 PM) *
Thanks everyone smile.gif I'm really excited about it. I'm going to put a spare JB in the bridge and tweak the electronics a bit. I'm going to try an experiment with a pair of these for the neck & middle, GuitarFetish KP - Premium Overwound Alnico Strat Pickups. I'm hoping they make a big difference without investing too much.


Bridge pickup is 9.8K, Mid is 9.4K, Neck is 9.2K. Compare that to your vintage 5K strat pickups!

Whoa that is pretty hot! but yeah with a JB this should work, the stock PU's if I remember right were a bit too jangley if one has a pure solo/super strat-like tone expectation.


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yoncopin
post Feb 27 2017, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 27 2017, 02:29 PM) *
Bridge pickup is 9.8K, Mid is 9.4K, Neck is 9.2K. Compare that to your vintage 5K strat pickups!

Whoa that is pretty hot! but yeah with a JB this should work, the stock PU's if I remember right were a bit too jangley if one has a pure solo/super strat-like tone expectation.


Mertay, I think you know what I'm going for. You think those will work ok? I already ordered them, so I guess we'll just find out. I was looking at the Seymour Duncan SSL-5 at 13.3K and the Dimarzio FS-1 at 14.23 and figured the 9.*K would be just about right. The price certainly was.


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Mertay
post Feb 27 2017, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Feb 27 2017, 07:06 PM) *
Mertay, I think you know what I'm going for. You think those will work ok? I already ordered them, so I guess we'll just find out. I was looking at the Seymour Duncan SSL-5 at 13.3K and the Dimarzio FS-1 at 14.23 and figured the 9.*K would be just about right. The price certainly was.


There is no way of being sure but I think on paper it makes sense.

The jb isn't an uber-hot PU and since what you ordered won't be too compressed (with tonally enough breathing space) height adjustment can be used to balance them nicely. We also still don't know if the pot values/capasitor will give a proper high-end so the adventure is just starting biggrin.gif


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yoncopin
post Feb 27 2017, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 27 2017, 03:40 PM) *
We also still don't know if the pot values/capasitor will give a proper high-end so the adventure is just starting biggrin.gif


This is what I meant by electronics tweaks. Since building the pedals, I've learned a lot about the guitar electronics themselves and have found that just tweaking the part values and wiring configurations makes a big difference in how much I enjoy a guitar. It costs virtually nothing too. I always now change the switch wiring to match the pickup combinations I want.

For this guitar (and generally) I've been using 500K audio taper volumes and 500k linear taper tone knobs. Then, since this guitar is using single coils (and for other bright humbuckers) I've taken to adding shunt resistors as mentioned in this guide to tame the high end and find the ideal value to pair with each pickup. I'll probably aim for 250K when on the single coil positions and 330-400k for the JB.

Lastly, the cap value. From what I understand the cap only defines the min-max range of the tone control's low pass filter. According to this article it doesn't affect the high end when full open. I'll probably try a .033uf or .022uf to get more fine control, since I rarely roll it all the way down.

Does that match with your understanding?


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Mertay
post Feb 27 2017, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Feb 27 2017, 07:59 PM) *
This is what I meant by electronics tweaks. Since building the pedals, I've learned a lot about the guitar electronics themselves and have found that just tweaking the part values and wiring configurations makes a big difference in how much I enjoy a guitar. It costs virtually nothing too. I always now change the switch wiring to match the pickup combinations I want.

For this guitar (and generally) I've been using 500K audio taper volumes and 500k linear taper tone knobs. Then, since this guitar is using single coils (and for other bright humbuckers) I've taken to adding shunt resistors as mentioned in this guide to tame the high end and find the ideal value to pair with each pickup. I'll probably aim for 250K when on the single coil positions and 330-400k for the JB.

Lastly, the cap value. From what I understand the cap only defines the min-max range of the tone control's low pass filter. According to this article it doesn't affect the high end when full open. I'll probably try a .033uf or .022uf to get more fine control, since I rarely roll it all the way down.

Does that match with your understanding?


You definitly know what you're doing smile.gif Cool article too, I didn't know such thing as a shunt resistor till now!

I prefer using OD to distortion (my soloing setup, a tubescreamer can also do) when adjusting the highs cause not only nasty highs but too much highs can also complicate harmonics in a bad way. Simply, if the driven tone gets more fluid (without darkening, mud or decrease of drive) when the tone knob is rolled down then decreasing pot value (or adjusting shunt resistor) must be considered.

About the capasitor, in my experience I heard the difference at the very high end of the tone (think fret buzz highs rather than clarity). My guess is although they cut at the same freq., different capasitors has different curves. I remember although the same value, my guitars high end extended a bit after I replaced the stock ibanez one with an orange drop (bought from stewmac). To find the right capasitor type, my advice is recording each example direct to the computer.

Oh and also don't rush and give many breaks while adjusting. After experiencing with my guitar, I now have huge respect to engineers who descide these parts. One can go crazy as it can get so detailed biggrin.gif


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yoncopin
post Feb 28 2017, 12:18 AM
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Well that's very nice of you to say smile.gif That's confidence inspiring, I'm not always sure I do know what I'm talking about biggrin.gif Thanks for the experimenting tips, I find another cool way for the component values is just to use alligator clips like in this video.

The shunt resistor is a very cool technique I discovered when mixing single coils and humbuckers. It allows you to present the pickup with the correct resistance and not have to compromise on a single value. If you stick the resistor to the pickup or switch you can have a unique value for each one, especially because individual potentiometer tolerances can vary the actual value quite a bit.

I'm optimistic about the pickups being good, whether they're what I'm looking for is always the question when getting new pickups (which is why cheap is good). There really isn't much engineering involved in reproducing a classic design, especially a single coil. It's just a wire wrapped around a magnet not rocket science. I have a theory that bad pickups are just the result of inferior parts and cost cutting my OEMs, I'm excited about finding a good source for pricing out the middle man. When I used to race mountain bikes I had very good success with purchasing carbon fiber direct out of southeast asia. I imagine the same is true here.

This post has been edited by yoncopin: Feb 28 2017, 12:19 AM


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Rammikin
post Mar 3 2017, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Feb 27 2017, 05:48 PM) *
I'm going to put a spare JB in the bridge and tweak the electronics a bit.


I've got a JB in the bridge position on the one on the right. It sounds great.
Attached Image


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yoncopin
post Mar 3 2017, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Mar 3 2017, 03:54 PM) *
I've got a JB in the bridge position on the one on the right. It sounds great.
Attached Image


Excellent, my other pickups are arriving this afternoon. I can't wait to get home to put them in! I guess you like the S series huh? biggrin.gif No SA's though? The HSS and non-locking bridge are really appealing to me as a change from my other Ibanez's Do you know if the S and SA are the same body?

This post has been edited by yoncopin: Mar 3 2017, 09:09 PM


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Rammikin
post Mar 3 2017, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Mar 3 2017, 08:08 PM) *
Excellent, my other pickups are arriving this afternoon. I can't wait to get home to put them in! I guess you like the S series huh? biggrin.gif No SA's though? The HSS and non-locking bridge are really appealing to me as a change from my other Ibanez's Do you know if the S and SA are the same body?


These aren't all my S series Ibanez's, these are just the S540's smile.gif. I don't have any SA's at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the body on yours is basically the same as the one in the middle in my picture. The oil finish is beautiful but gets scuffed up a bit sometimes below the strings. I just touch it up with some oil.


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Mertay
post Mar 3 2017, 11:43 PM
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Though the shape from the front are the same, the SA's body (if I remember right) thickness is right between an S and an RG and also the back is flatter than the S.

As someone used to the RG, the S when first tried felt odd to me cause of the thinness of the body but I didn't feel that with the SA.

PS; Rammikin's collection is super impressive smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Mar 4 2017, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Mar 3 2017, 10:43 PM) *
Though the shape from the front are the same, the SA's body (if I remember right) thickness is right between an S and an RG and also the back is flatter than the S.


Mertay's memory is correct. While they look the same from the front, they have a different thickness profile.


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AK Rich
post Mar 4 2017, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Mar 3 2017, 11:54 AM) *
I've got a JB in the bridge position on the one on the right. It sounds great.
Attached Image

Nice collection man! You really must love those S-series guitars. And you have other models as well?
I have an S-470 myself. I love how light they are.

Can you tell me what model this one is?
https://anchorage.craigslist.org/msg/6028555709.html
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yoncopin
post Mar 4 2017, 05:19 PM
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Alright everything is installed and these pickups sound awesome! I'm VERY impressed, they are very similar to my Dimarzio Injectors but a bit brighter/clearer and obviously are true single coils so they hum a bit. Definitely worth the money and I got a pair for half the price of a single Dimarzio. I did have to shave down the bobbin because they didn't fit in my direct mount guitar, but mounted to the underside of a pickguard there'd be no issue. I'm suddenly very interested in demystifying the technical aspects of guitar pickups. I found this article on "Measuring the Electrical Properties of Guitar Pickups" and am going to build/acquire come of the tools to get started. I think these GFS Overwound's are essentially SD SSL-5's and I have a Duncan Designed JB vs a real Seymour Duncan to be the first tests.

I also added my first treble bleed mod to the volume pot (150K/680pf in parallel) and am going to start adding it to all my guitars. I experimented with a few tone caps and settled on .022uf, though I liked the 0.15uf quite a bit and may go back. It had a great cocked wah sound when fully rolled off. I found 250K pots were also my favorite for both the JB and singles.

Mertay, I found this great video series on guitar electronics. This guy has a killer DIY tool for auditioning different wiring options, and you can see the results on the spectrum analyzer. I think I was right that the tone cap doesn't affect the sound much at all when full open. I'm going to try to design a more comprehensive one for myself and ?maybe? try to sell a few? I'll put it in a large pedal enclosure, but also thought about putting it in a guitar itself. You can get cheap raw guitar bodies and necks for very cheap from GuitarFetish and I've wanted to experiment with DIY painting & finishing too. I've been curious what the final build quality would be like, but if it's to house a testing tool it wouldn't have to be a pristine player. I also thought about routing the back out to make it easy to swap pickups without affecting the strings/setup. Basically build a guitar for comprehensive testing of pickups and wiring options/mods. It'd be like my pedal cabinet but for guitars.

This post has been edited by yoncopin: Mar 4 2017, 05:25 PM


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