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jstcrsn
post Apr 15 2017, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 14 2017, 11:23 PM) *
If it comes to that I will gladly accept your help. Here's to hoping it doesn't.

Neo-Nazis in this country have indeed killed folks as recently as last year ...
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/07...ashington-state

There's always stuff to be scared of I guess. Nazis are are probably the better organized (and patient) as they've had a lot more time to prepare for whatever it is that they think they're preparing for.
But as a wise man once said, "Fear is interest paid on a debt you may not owe".

did you read the story . This nut bag killed those he new , at a house flying a confederate flag . So to put this a in racist killing category is stretching the truth at best , Isn't it

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/former-c...article/2610687
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klasaine
post Apr 15 2017, 02:39 PM
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It says he 'knew' them but not to what extent (small town, 10,000 peeps). He had assault and hate crime convictions prior, as well as a drive by shooting conviction. Two (not one but two) Adolf Hitler tattoos and 3 swastikas tattooed displayed prominently. Not too mention the "Rahowa" (racial holy war) across his shoulders.
Everything this dude does is racially and ideologically motivated.


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jstcrsn
post Apr 15 2017, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 15 2017, 02:39 PM) *
It says he 'knew' them but not to what extent (small town, 10,000 peeps). He had assault and hate crime convictions prior, as well as a drive by shooting conviction. Two (not one but two) Adolf Hitler tattoos and 3 swastikas tattooed displayed prominently. Not too mention the "Rahowa" (racial holy war) across his shoulders.
Everything this dude does is racially and ideologically motivated.

but those he killed with their confederate flag changes everything .
If this crazy would have killed any other ethnicity other than himself i would give you that , but ,
why did the news not give the nationality of the victims , because they were the same , period .
Don't you think if this guy killed a Jewish or African American it would have been a field day for the " media " narrative , does not common sense tell us it would have been all over The Web .
meanwhile while we try to figure out while the race of these victims were left out
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/wo...l-whites-power/

P.S.
Gabriel's connecting melodies thread , i believe is calling your name

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Todd Simpson
post Apr 15 2017, 10:02 PM
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Seems another false equivalency floating about? Nobody got shot/killed in the article about Black Lives Matter. It's just bluster from the other side. Bluster isn't the same as killing. Folks can bluster all they want. It's when folks from either side of an argument pick up a weapon and start killing folks that is concerning IMHO

Todd


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Apr 15 2017, 10:57 AM) *
but those he killed with their confederate flag changes everything .
If this crazy would have killed any other ethnicity other than himself i would give you that , but ,
why did the news not give the nationality of the victims , because they were the same , period .
Don't you think if this guy killed a Jewish or African American it would have been a field day for the " media " narrative , does not common sense tell us it would have been all over The Web .
meanwhile while we try to figure out while the race of these victims were left out
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/wo...l-whites-power/

P.S.
Gabriel's connecting melodies thread , i believe is calling your name



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jstcrsn
post Apr 15 2017, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 15 2017, 10:02 PM) *
Seems another false equivalency floating about? Nobody got shot/killed in the article about Black Lives Matter. It's just bluster from the other side. Bluster isn't the same as killing. Folks can bluster all they want. It's when folks from either side of an argument pick up a weapon and start killing folks that is concerning IMHO

Todd

fair enough , but would you condemn her rhetoric

https://thinkprogress.org/12-officers-shot-...as-6150db506e36

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Todd Simpson
post Apr 16 2017, 09:30 PM
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I would condemn all rhetoric that supports the idea of violence. Violence begets violence. In the end, people have to do what they should have done to start with, sit down and talk it out.

You seem convinced that I have some sympathy for radicals? I appreciate them sure smile.gif But I do not support those who advocate violence. We are closer to a violent outburst than we have been since the 60s. So I support leaders who would try to find a peaceful solution for the problems at hand.


Todd


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Apr 15 2017, 05:52 PM) *
fair enough , but would you condemn her rhetoric

https://thinkprogress.org/12-officers-shot-...as-6150db506e36



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Mertay
post Apr 17 2017, 08:58 AM
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Democracy lost again in Turkey last night by (around, still official count continues) 51 to 49 sad.gif

Around 2m unstamped voting papers were accepted claiming it was a simple mistake. Video's floating on facebook people voting for those who didn't show-up...

The upcoming presidency system will be very similar to pre-war Iraq, Syria...many friends and I started considering leaving country, everybody I know is very depressed right now. Its not about what we voted to happen or not but if voting actually mattered.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 17 2017, 08:59 AM


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bleez
post Apr 17 2017, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 17 2017, 08:58 AM) *
Democracy lost again in Turkey last night by (around, still official count continues) 51 to 49 sad.gif

Around 2m unstamped voting papers were accepted claiming it was a simple mistake. Video's floating on facebook people voting for those who didn't show-up...

The upcoming presidency system will be very similar to pre-war Iraq, Syria...many friends and I started considering leaving country, everybody I know is very depressed right now. Its not about what we voted to happen or not but if voting actually mattered.

I was really sorry to see the results coming through on the news. I hope its not as bad as it seems for you guys but... mellow.gif
you should come to Scotland we'll soon be some sort of bizarre free floating nomad country not affiliated to anyone cool.gif


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Mertay
post Apr 17 2017, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Apr 17 2017, 08:32 AM) *
you should come to Scotland we'll soon be some sort of bizarre free floating nomad country not affiliated to anyone cool.gif


eheheh that sounds good biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 18 2017, 02:57 AM
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He put Presidential terms at 10 years and gave himself all kinds of powers that used to belong to congress. Trump called and congratulated him. That alone is kinda scary. "Congrats!! You just built a dictatorship out of a democratic framework!!" Bone chilling.

I really hope Turkey doesn't head down the dark road that it appears to be going down. They are currently holding more than 100 journalists without any stated cause or charges. Mainly because they were critical of the govt. I was watching a show here called "ANTHONY BORDAIN PARTS UNKOWN" where he travels and tries out food. He went to Turkey and spoke to a buddy of his who was a journalist. A week later, the journalist was jailed.

I hope you don't have to leave as it's a tough time to leave and go anywhere now that so many countries are making it so hard for folks to immigrate.
QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 17 2017, 03:58 AM) *
Democracy lost again in Turkey last night by (around, still official count continues) 51 to 49 sad.gif

Around 2m unstamped voting papers were accepted claiming it was a simple mistake. Video's floating on facebook people voting for those who didn't show-up...

The upcoming presidency system will be very similar to pre-war Iraq, Syria...many friends and I started considering leaving country, everybody I know is very depressed right now. Its not about what we voted to happen or not but if voting actually mattered.



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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 18 2017, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 17 2017, 08:58 AM) *
Democracy lost again in Turkey last night by (around, still official count continues) 51 to 49 sad.gif

Around 2m unstamped voting papers were accepted claiming it was a simple mistake. Video's floating on facebook people voting for those who didn't show-up...

The upcoming presidency system will be very similar to pre-war Iraq, Syria...many friends and I started considering leaving country, everybody I know is very depressed right now. Its not about what we voted to happen or not but if voting actually mattered.


Yes this is horrible! How do you stop this man?


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Mertay
post Apr 18 2017, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 18 2017, 01:57 AM) *
He put Presidential terms at 10 years and gave himself all kinds of powers that used to belong to congress. Trump called and congratulated him. That alone is kinda scary. "Congrats!! You just built a dictatorship out of a democratic framework!!" Bone chilling.


As mentioned before if there's one man Trump admires to be, its Erdogan...

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Apr 18 2017, 09:33 AM) *
Yes this is horrible! How do you stop this man?


Money is before nationalism to his followers but an economic crisis isn't an option, the one good thing not being an EU member is being able to print your own money. This is why Greece bankrupted. EU after WW2 used this to build their countrys again, creating false wealth in bad times boosting inflation. Currently Turkey's economy is pretty bad too but he used this "trick" 2-3 months before the elections making it even worse, his support might decrease cause of this but on the long run.

We still have some trust left for the justice system and also nation-wide protests if agressive enough (like gezi from a few years ago) can work. All we want right now is a fair election.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 18 2017, 11:42 AM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 18 2017, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 18 2017, 11:42 AM) *
We still have some trust left for the justice system and also nation-wide protests if agressive enough (like gezi from a few years ago) can work. All we want right now is a fair election.


Fingers crossed! In light of this, we have to give some credits to the US system for catching Trumps unconstitutional attempts. However I suspect the same was the case for Turkey in the beginning of Erdogan? Scary comparison either way..


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AK Rich
post Apr 18 2017, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Apr 18 2017, 03:36 AM) *
Fingers crossed! In light of this, we have to give some credits to the US system for catching Trumps unconstitutional attempts. However I suspect the same was the case for Turkey in the beginning of Erdogan? Scary comparison either way..

I suggest that you read the US Constitution, The Federalist Papers and relevant Supreme Court decisions before making comments on things you obviously know very little about.

Here is some other good reading on the topic.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/five-9th-c...l-ban-decision/
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/gene...20en%20banc.pdf

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jstcrsn
post Apr 18 2017, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Apr 18 2017, 12:36 PM) *
Fingers crossed! In light of this, we have to give some credits to the US system for catching Trumps unconstitutional attempts. .

these are rogue judges making" Ideological" law from the bench ( to me , what they have done is unconstitutional ) , where were they when Obama banned ( several times ) , or previous presidents did the same
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-imm...6/16/id/734234/

The president is entrusted with safety of the nation and needs to have the power to ban ( at his discretion ) anybody , period .
To strip that power away from the president , and his ability to inn act it immediately is what i consider a crisis
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Mertay
post Apr 18 2017, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Apr 18 2017, 11:36 AM) *
Fingers crossed! In light of this, we have to give some credits to the US system for catching Trumps unconstitutional attempts. However I suspect the same was the case for Turkey in the beginning of Erdogan? Scary comparison either way..


Although throughout the years they inflrated and de-independentize many branches of the broucratic system, they couldn't infltrate the constitution court (which is the highest branch of the justice system here). This new constitution will let him descide the judges placed there so this is sort of his final step to become the dictator he wants to be.

It patiently took 15 years to get him to this point, what American's must be careful mainly about is this independence of various organizations in their system (like justice, CIA, army...) on the long run.


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jstcrsn
post Apr 19 2017, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 18 2017, 09:55 PM) *
Although throughout the years they inflrated and de-independentize many branches of the broucratic system, they couldn't infltrate the constitution court (which is the highest branch of the justice system here). This new constitution will let him descide the judges placed there so this is sort of his final step to become the dictator he wants to be.

It patiently took 15 years to get him to this point, what American's must be careful mainly about is this independence of various organizations in their system (like justice, CIA, army...) on the long run.

This is also why our founders wanted us to keep and bear arms . Turkey definitely has a long and winding raod out and I wish you all the best
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Todd Simpson
post Apr 19 2017, 01:52 AM
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I have agree with KRIS on this, I know your shocked smile.gif Trump stepped over the line a few times and the checks and balances that the founding fathers put in place were there doing their job and checking his power. The right or wrong of it, is for the courts to work out in the end.


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Apr 18 2017, 11:57 AM) *
I suggest that you read the US Constitution, The Federalist Papers and relevant Supreme Court decisions before making comments on things you obviously know very little about.

Here is some other good reading on the topic.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/five-9th-c...l-ban-decision/
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/gene...20en%20banc.pdf



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AK Rich
post Apr 19 2017, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 18 2017, 04:52 PM) *
I have agree with KRIS on this, I know your shocked smile.gif Trump stepped over the line a few times and the checks and balances that the founding fathers put in place were there doing their job and checking his power. The right or wrong of it, is for the courts to work out in the end.

Bullshit. It is not the job of the courts to seize powers that are reserved for the President and Congress. And they certainly have no business making a decision based on what they think the President might have been thinking when he issued the EO. It's completely absurd. There is no such check and balance. Tell me what law or clause in the Constitution was referenced in that decision. It was purely a political activist move that ignored years of established law and precedent as the dissenting judges have shown. You might want to go back and re-read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers too. Judges on that court have shown time and time again that they will ignore the law and rule based on their political ideology which is why that court is among the most overturned courts in the nation. They are rouge judges pure and simple, and there have been many of them put into place over the years. Why is it that when Democrats can't get through the legislation that they want, they try and force it through the judiciary?

John Kelley from DHS tells it like it is.



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Rammikin
post Apr 19 2017, 05:04 PM
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fyi, in no particular order:

1) Nobody "seized" anything smile.gif. In fact, the court ruled the president does have broad discretion in these matters. They simply ruled it is not limitless. He is obligated to demonstrate his action fits within the constraints of the constitution.
2) State of mind is almost always relevant in court cases. One's intention is fundamental to judging issues. In this case particularly so, since one of the arguments against the ban was that it denies the constitutional guarantee to practice religion freely.
3) The decision undeniably had a political flavor to it. But before you get too excited, the politicization of the dissent made it pale in comparison smile.gif.
4) Snopes attributes the false rumor that the ninth circuit court of appeals is a rogue court to an erroneous blog post from february.

If somebody wants to get angry about this decision, they should direct their anger at the administration. It should have been a simple order that was easy to defend in court. Instead, it was poorly crafted and ineptly defended.



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