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Todd Simpson
post Mar 17 2017, 01:40 AM
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AK RICH: The reason I have not commented on the articles you posted, to be honest, is that they are all from right wing mouth piece sites. including the one you posted here. I realize that support for most of your positions can easily be found on such sites. However, that doesn't make the information worth anything. Sites owned by FOX and other hard core, right wing orgs will post whatever supports the talking points they are pushing. These types of articles don't merit consideration to be honest. Like we talked about before, info is only as good as it's source. So anything from Reuters/Pew Research/CBS News, or really any respected news source that isn't known for being a mouthpiece for either side. E.g. Mother Jones on the Left, Fox/National Review on the right.

However, let's focus on issues since we can't seem to find any sources.

RUSSIA: Still under investigation. Only part of trumps 2005 returns were released, but we did learn why Michael Kelly resigned. See below. I wonder if he will roll over on Trump?

UPDATE: MICHAEL FLYNN (Resigned as Trumps National Security Advisor after scrutiny over Russian ties) just REGISTERED AS A FOREIGN AGENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. He was paid HALF A MILLION DOLLARS to represent the interests of TURKEY during the campaign. All this just recently came out after he registered this past tuesday. Now that this has all come out, it makes me more interested to see the tax returns of our president to see who was paying whom. Someone this close to him was taking money at this level while on the campaign trail and even during his short tenure as a senior white house advisor.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/us/polit...ynn-turkey.html
If you don't like the NY Times, here is the same story in the Associated Press. One of the two sources I would say are the most reliable. AP and Reuters. Most news pulls from these two sources for their stories.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/former-trum...turkey-lobbying

NEW POLICY: Trump is trying to pump billions in to the Military, (already the largest on Earth) and defund MEALS ON WHEELS and after school programs that help the poor. This is the sad truth. That Trump is pushing policies that will impact the very people who voted him in to office. The lower middle class who he swore to protect. I won't bother with a link, I'll post the bill link from congress as I find them.

Maybe we should limit ourselves to that. As you seem to post only right wing sites, and reject even well respected news organizations like the BBC, perhaps just pointing to actual info from Congress will cut down on peripheral bs and cut to the heart of the matter.


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 15 2017, 11:14 AM) *
.
Sorry to crash your little party, Todd. I'll leave you to it, but let me know when you find evidence of collusion with the Russians in Trumps tax returns that have just been illegally leaked. Have fun guys! I'll leave you with some more evil right wing propaganda that is relevant on my way out.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4455...reveal-omission



I thought he was headed in to a NATIONAL REVIEW/FOX/CIRCA/BRIETBARF echo chamber smile.gif But thankfully it's being moderated. smile.gif

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 15 2017, 09:33 PM) *
yes , but you stumbled into a CNN echo chamber


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 17 2017, 02:16 AM


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jstcrsn
post Mar 17 2017, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 15 2017, 11:14 AM) *
Good point, topic moved and titled tweaked!

I say you wrong , you say Im wrong . if your in the mood to be sensible ?
what would need to happen to make you believe you might have been misinformed and what would trump need to do to prove he was putin's beotch ( I know you think that , but ,What would prove it )
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 17 2017, 09:05 PM
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Did you hear the news that his former National Security Adivsor just registered as a Foreign Agent after admitting to taking half a million bucks from the Govt of Turkey as well as tens of thousands from Russia Today (News Source and Owned by the Kremlin)? So we have somebody one step away driving dirty. Doesn't make Trump look any cleaner.

Also, the distraction tactic of "obama wiretapped me", then blaming FOX NEWS for the entire thing? Talk about the blind leading the blind. Fox even came out with a press release saying "we have no evidence full stop of any wiretapping". It was based on an op ed by a fox contributor.

So far, it doesn't look good.

However, personally, I'd take his Tax Returns for the past 10 years as proof of everything. No Russian money shown, then I"m convinced. But he won't release them. So there's that.


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 17 2017, 02:53 PM) *
I say you wrong , you say Im wrong . if your in the mood to be sensible ?
what would need to happen to make you believe you might have been misinformed and what would trump need to do to prove he was putin's beotch ( I know you think that , but ,What would prove it )



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AK Rich
post Mar 18 2017, 04:33 AM
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In other news, maybe there is still hope for the 9th circuit after reading this stunning rebuke of the courts decision to stay the ban on Trumps first executive order concerning immigration. Finally some judges of the court have recognized and cited the law, and case precedence.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/gene...20en%20banc.pdf



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Todd Simpson
post Mar 18 2017, 07:21 PM
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Come on, "stunning rebuke"? Seemed more like judges just doing their job. Trump is throwing out red meat to the base so he can say "I did what I said I was going to do" and we gotta give him credit for that. But again, that's what forums are for smile.gif One guy says stunning rebuke, the other guy says the exact opposite, and we have a forum thread smile.gif


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 17 2017, 11:33 PM) *
In other news, maybe there is still hope for the 9th circuit after reading this stunning rebuke of the courts decision to stay the ban on Trumps first executive order concerning immigration. Finally some judges of the court have recognized and cited the law, and case precedence.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/gene...20en%20banc.pdf



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klasaine
post Mar 18 2017, 08:15 PM
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It's a lot like making a deal. *Don't regale me with 'Trump the businessman' analogies. Most, if not all politicians are just as savvy or as ruthless as the Donald.

You offer ridiculously low, the other side flat out rejects, you offer more reasonably, it meets somewhere in the middle. The administration knew perfectly well that the first one wouldn't fly. Which is why they didn't challenge back. They just wrote a new exec order - which is what most admins do in that situation.

Most likely that is how the next 4 years will be - deal making. And how most 4 year periods are.

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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 18 2017, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 15 2017, 04:14 PM) *
So, because he didn't actually answer the question of what he would do if there were evidence of folks within the campaign speaking to the Russians about the campaign, that is a lie under oath? Try again.


No, he lied because he said he didn't meet Russians when he did. Saying that he didn't meet them as a surrogate, but still met them in some other capacity, is not only a weak excuse but risky business under oath. It would take a very inexperienced person not to realise the major risk of this backfiring - which is yet a reason to believe he might be hiding something.

It would have been easy for him to just add "I met Russians but not as a surrogate". But that would obviously have triggered more questions, which I guess he wanted to avoid.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 17 2017, 07:53 PM) *
I say you wrong , you say Im wrong . if your in the mood to be sensible ?
what would need to happen to make you believe you might have been misinformed and what would trump need to do to prove he was putin's beotch ( I know you think that , but ,What would prove it )


I don't claim to be 'right' - I just use my common sense to make you understand it lies in your interest to get to the bottom of this. Given how extreme the speculations have become - it is strange Trump does not lay the cards on the table. This inevitably leads to further speculations.


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jstcrsn
post Mar 19 2017, 03:21 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 18 2017, 10:57 PM) *
No, he lied because he said he didn't meet Russians when he did. Saying that he didn't meet them as a surrogate, but still met them in some other capacity, is not only a weak excuse but risky business under oath. It would take a very inexperienced person not to realise the major risk of this backfiring - which is yet a reason to believe he might be hiding something.

It would have been easy for him to just add "I met Russians but not as a surrogate". But that would obviously have triggered more questions, which I guess he wanted to avoid.



I don't claim to be 'right' - I just use my common sense to make you understand it lies in your interest to get to the bottom of this. Given how extreme the speculations have become - it is strange Trump does not lay the cards on the table. This inevitably leads to further speculations.
Don't take this the wrong way. Do you think I am to dumb, that I need you to help me understand where are interests are .Quite honestly this post is someone speaking to a child , lets break it down . Common sense - as if I don't have any ." understand " - I have covered that . It sort of looks like you are so beholden to your " Speculation " ( your words not mine ) Trump could never do anything right , And everytime you want to argue using speculation , you show how senseless you are. I thought you said sensible . I thought if I could get you or Todd to actually draw a line in the sand, that maybe, you had it wrong, but neither one of you will , so what are these conversations . I wasn't telling you what to do , I was asking you, letting you make the call, so we have something to work with , but you still can't answer. I'll ask again , Is there anything that Trump could do that would get him of the hook as putin's beotch

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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 19 2017, 09:40 AM
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I certainly don't think you are dumb! sad.gif

There are many things Trump could do that instantly would give him credibility as far as Russia goes:

* Show all of his tax returns just like all other US presidents have

* Ask his people to stop denying Russia contacts and instead be transparent about why and how they met

* Stop calling Putin a nice guy and instead - just like the rest of the free world - denounce his assassination of political opponents, virtual dictatorship, Ukraine takeover, total media control, meddling in foreign elections, military/hacking ramp up etc etc


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Mertay
post Mar 19 2017, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 18 2017, 09:57 PM) *
Given how extreme the speculations have become - it is strange Trump does not lay the cards on the table. This inevitably leads to further speculations.


Yet this is what works best, always giving media and people something to chew or argue about...creating conflict and seperation among people in a country works best for the man at the top. It doesn't matter if wrong or right.

Thinking about it, what did he accomplish since he became president to this day? the toilet people will choose in public places. Everything is either is in the works, pending or still argued...but it doesn't "feel" like this for both sides of the voters, as if lots of things are happening but in reality...

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jstcrsn
post Mar 19 2017, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 19 2017, 09:40 AM) *
I certainly don't think you are dumb! sad.gif

There are many things Trump could do that instantly would give him credibility as far as Russia goes:

* Show all of his tax returns just like all other US presidents have

* Ask his people to stop denying Russia contacts and instead be transparent about why and how they met

* Stop calling Putin a nice guy and instead - just like the rest of the free world - denounce his assassination of political opponents, virtual dictatorship, Ukraine takeover, total media control, meddling in foreign elections, military/hacking ramp up etc etc

Thank you, now , I want to know ( not based on speculation ) , but what you think you could bring to me with an " I told you so ". If Trump is his beotch , how would that manifest itself with how he runs the administration. I think this important to our conversation , either way when looking back , we can set some guidelines ,when our heads are clear , and we can both look back and see how our perceptions varied from reality . If hindsight is 20/20 than establishing some concrete stances( that we can't change), so that we could look back with unfiltered 20/20 and see if we got it right or wrong, would this not be beneficial to our growth ?
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 19 2017, 03:15 PM
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If one of the most powerful autocracies (Russia) managed to push its agenda onto the most powerful democracy (US) - it would undoubtedly mean a new world order.


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AK Rich
post Mar 19 2017, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 18 2017, 10:21 AM) *
Come on, "stunning rebuke"? Seemed more like judges just doing their job. Trump is throwing out red meat to the base so he can say "I did what I said I was going to do" and we gotta give him credit for that. But again, that's what forums are for smile.gif One guy says stunning rebuke, the other guy says the exact opposite, and we have a forum thread smile.gif


No sir, this was a judicial beatdown and scathing review from the other judges on the court of the 9th circuit courts ruling on the EO. Yeah judges doing their job schooling the other judges on the court how to do their job. It is stunning because it came from the 9th circuit, that's why I say maybe there is still hope for that court.
The judges that made the ruling are rogue judicial activists and what they have done is judicial tyranny.
Maybe this will explain it better for you.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/five-9th-c...l-ban-decision/

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/gene...20en%20banc.pdf

PS: Isn't it interesting that this publication from the 9th circuit isn't headline news?

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jstcrsn
post Mar 19 2017, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 19 2017, 03:15 PM) *
If one of the most powerful autocracies (Russia) managed to push its agenda onto the most powerful democracy (US) - it would undoubtedly mean a new world order.
thenwhat do you think of this opinion piece http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/10/08/...-ignorance.html
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 19 2017, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 19 2017, 08:31 PM) *
thenwhat do you think of this opinion piece http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/10/08/...-ignorance.html


I skimmed through it briefly -

I am by no means a Russia expert and I am not sure my opinion on the details is worth anything. But if it turns out the Russian influence is as bad we're currently led to believe by the WH silence - you can be 100% sure it is not something that will benefit you and me.

If you guys want to get more understanding for this, I suggest researching briefly on the history of Russia/USSR and more importantly Putin.


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jstcrsn
post Mar 19 2017, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 19 2017, 08:46 PM) *
I skimmed through it briefly -

I am by no means a Russia expert and I am not sure my opinion on the details is worth anything. But if it turns out the Russian influence is as bad we're currently led to believe by the WH silence - you can be 100% sure it is not something that will benefit you and me.

If you guys want to get more understanding for this, I suggest researching briefly on the history of Russia/USSR and more importantly Putin.

I believe many of those things about putin , he is KGB thru and thru, and I believe he would love to see a return to that ( and trust me , to many of my" Kin" would be flat out waring with Trump if we thought he would throw out our Republic) . I am trying to find some common ground . you do know that article came from Fox news ( or as some say " faux news " ), But it seemed to be close to were you are . From were I stand it looks like you might have a tainted view of fox. I am not saying you agree with anymore , this might be the only one , but maybe , just maybe , you could give credit to an article rather than the name someone else might be slandering
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 20 2017, 12:01 AM
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SURE smile.gif As I've said many, many, many times. TRUMP COULD RELEASE HIS TAXE RETURNS. That would do it for me smile.gif If he wants to convince the two thirds of the electorate that want to see his tax returns of his legitimacy as pres, then yeah, let the tax returns for the past 10 year speak for themselves and convince everyone. Simple eh? However, I think Hell will freeze over twice before he releases his returns.

Todd


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 18 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Don't take this the wrong way. Do you think I am to dumb, that I need you to help me understand where are interests are .Quite honestly this post is someone speaking to a child , lets break it down . Common sense - as if I don't have any ." understand " - I have covered that . It sort of looks like you are so beholden to your " Speculation " ( your words not mine ) Trump could never do anything right , And everytime you want to argue using speculation , you show how senseless you are. I thought you said sensible . I thought if I could get you or Todd to actually draw a line in the sand, that maybe, you had it wrong, but neither one of you will , so what are these conversations . I wasn't telling you what to do , I was asking you, letting you make the call, so we have something to work with , but you still can't answer. I'll ask again , Is there anything that Trump could do that would get him of the hook as putin's beotch



I get it smile.gif You support Trump and the Ban smile.gif Thus you would support any courts that support that. As I do NOT support the ban, I support the Judges that shot it down. Twice! smile.gif Simple as that. Both sides have arguments to support their side, naturally. It can be argued from either vantage point in legal terms. Still, I find it objectionable and unconstitutional, along with the judges that shot it down. It's just that simple, we disagree on the ban. I find the ban un American on a fundamental level.


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 19 2017, 11:29 AM) *
No sir, this was a judicial beatdown and scathing review from the other judges on the court of the 9th circuit courts ruling on the EO. Yeah judges doing their job schooling the other judges on the court how to do their job. It is stunning because it came from t.....


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 20 2017, 12:47 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 20 2017, 12:46 AM
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FAUX news falls squarely under the right wing propaganda rubric. It's a network created by Rupert Murdoch to spread his right wing ideology. It's more a commentary network than a "news" network. It's mostly punditry and it's no secret that it has a severe right wing bias. Just as sure as Mother Jones is a left wing publication, or the Village Voice. As such, none of these make good sources for valid arguments imho. They are so far from "center" that the severity of their bias impedes their usefulness. Bias exists everywhere, but it exists more strongly in some places than others. For example, the Pew Research Center, Associated Press, and CBO (Congressional budget office) are about a close to center, and away from bias as one can get. That's why they make good sources. Places like Brietbart (the mouthpiece of the Alt Right) and equally bad places on the left, simply do not make good reference materials due to the depth of their bias.


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 19 2017, 06:25 PM) *
I believe many of those things about putin , he is KGB thru and thru, and I believe he would love to see a return to that ( and trust me , to many of my" Kin" would be flat out waring with Trump if we thought he would throw out our Republic) . I am trying to find some common ground . you do know that article came from Fox news ( or as some say " faux news " ), But it seemed to be close to were you are . From were I stand it looks like you might have a tainted view of fox. I am not saying you agree with anymore , this might be the only one , but maybe , just maybe , you could give credit to an article rather than the name someone else might be slandering


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jstcrsn
post Mar 20 2017, 12:54 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 20 2017, 12:01 AM) *
SURE smile.gif As I've said many, many, many times. TRUMP COULD RELEASE HIS TAXE RETURNS. That would do it for me smile.gif If he wants to convince the two thirds of the electorate that want to see his tax returns of his legitimacy as pres, then yeah, let the tax returns for the past 10 year speak for themselves and convince everyone. Simple eh? However, I think Hell will freeze over twice before he releases his returns.
Let me help you , he is a business man, he has ties in many countries , I would put money there has to be something tied to russia somehow , and as little as it might be . You think he would let the left pick apart his life . You guys can"t even let him put ketchup on his steak without getting you panties in a bunch, but surely that can"t be the only thing that you can think of to exonerate him ?
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 20 2017, 02:18 AM
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You asked "WHAT WOULD IT TAKE" and I told you what it would take. Simple as that. Do I think he should release his tax returns? Like every pres for the past 40 years? YES.

Not doing so, makes him look guilty and hard to trust. So there's your question answered. That's what it would take. Trump being open and honest as the previous 40 years worth of presidents. But like I said and you confirmed, there is NO CHANCE he will release his returns. Why? Probably because they are dripping with Russian money. Certainly doesn't help that he won't release them.


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 19 2017, 07:54 PM) *
Let me help you , he is a business man, he has ties in many countries , I would put money there has to be something tied to russia somehow , and as little as it might be . You think he would let the left pick apart his life . You guys can"t even let him put ketchup on his steak without getting you panties in a bunch, but surely that can"t be the only thing that you can think of to exonerate him ?



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