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> Parametric Eq?
Phil66
post Mar 21 2017, 09:38 PM
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Hello,

Can you offer some explanation on the eq options here please folks, Thanks in advance smile.gif



Cheers


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GeneT95
post Mar 21 2017, 11:19 PM
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EQ is a great thing to learn/add to one's guitar 'pedal' or understanding. As with most things, it takes fiddling with to get the hang of. Here are some snippets first about guitar EQ in general from other places.

Electric GUITAR
In general, I find a light hand with broad strokes to be most effective on electric guitar, if any EQ is applied at all other than some filtering. If you do decide to go hunting, however:

80 to 90 Hz and below - Mud: Lose it, crush it with your HP filter. There's pretty much nothing useful down here, and it will almost always just equate to flabbiness and noise in your tone
150 to 200 Hz - Thickness: This is where the "guts" of a guitar normally come from, but again, can quickly cloud a mix on you. Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section or an exposed part, and then tuck it away when things thicken up again
300 to 1,000 Hz - Life: I call this the "life" of the electric, as many of the things that make an electric sound like an electric live in this range. So attenuating needs to be taken into consideration carefully. Too much though, and you start fighting with your snare and things like that, so take note
1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range
3,000 to 8,000 Hz - Brilliance and Presence: This is the range that can add shimmer or allow a guitar to cut through a mix when boosted. It can also be where you make cuts to keep a guitar from conflicting with a vocal. If making boosts in this range, keep an eye (ear?) out for noise, as any noise present from distortion/effects pedals will very quickly be accentuated as well


Attached Image

Those are some basic ideas. Many great guitarists sculpted their tone using EQ before the amp, in the effects loop, and after. Those ideas above are general sound and sound mixing ideas. The power of EQ is to shape your own sound. Scooped mids, singing treble, mid boost crunch etc.

You have 3 parametric eq's in your program that let you select the frequency and the q. The frequency obviously sets your target frequency, the level lets you set essentially a boost or dampening, the the q lets you essentially select the shape of the curve. Precise spike (or sort of), wider more bell shape and more frequencies effected. Essentially the q determines how frequencies close the the set frequency are effected by the boost or dampening. See pic below for an idea.

Attached Image

Your program also allow you to select where in the chain it appears since it has a setting labelled Post. Post amp,pre amp, post cab, pre cab etc.

You also have a graphic eq.

What I'd suggest is use the graphic eq to tone shape your sound and then use the PEQ as a fine tuning in various spots even post amp. Take the graphic eq mess around with it and see how it changes the sound. Try a standard boost treble or scooped mids or mid boosted. Put the GEQ before or after a distortion box, before or if able after the amp section. If your program allows, make a setting and then just move the GEQ around and see how it changes the sound based on where it is in the chain.

EQ can be a powerful tool. It is frequently underutilized. I imagine a few will post there eq ideas about tone and settings. There are some good snippets about effects here from an older site. http://www.amptone.com/#eqconcepts

This post has been edited by GeneT95: Mar 21 2017, 11:21 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 21 2017, 11:39 PM
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This is a great reply GENET95! I think this should go in the wiki. It's that good.

Just in case some of it didn't make sense on first pass

HP Filter (High Pass Filter) This lets high frequencies, e.g. treble, "pass" through and cuts off low frequencies e.g bass. There is a bunch of mud in the lower bands that typically just makes tone less usable imho. Trimmingi the lows as he mentioned will "tighten" up . your sound. Especially with high gain, the low end will "bunch up" and you get boomy/doomy/dark tone that reduces clarity. If you are making doom metal, or sabbath covers it's fine. But if you are playing something other than power chords, it just gets in the way imho.

LP FILTER (Low Pass Filter) reverse of the above. Let's the Low frequencies "pass" and trims the highs.

Star small with eq and play around with each setting of a given eq so that you get familiar with what each does and how
it impacts the tone. Many players eq after the gain stage. This is missing out of wads of things you can do by adding
eq before the gain stage. I always use a parametric eq to trim low end off before the gain to prevent mud for example.



QUOTE (GeneT95 @ Mar 21 2017, 06:19 PM) *
EQ is a great thing to learn/add to one's guitar 'pedal' or understanding. As with most things, it takes fiddling with to get the hang of. Here are some snippets first about guitar EQ in general from other places.

Electric GUITAR
In general, I find a light hand with broad strokes to be most effective on electric guitar, if any EQ is applied at all other than some filtering. If you do decide to go hunting, however:

80 to 90 Hz and below - Mud: Lose it, crush it with your HP filter. There's pretty much nothing useful down here, and it will almost always just equate to flabbiness and noise in your tone
150 to 200 Hz - Thickness: This is where the "guts" of a guitar normally come from, but again, can quickly cloud a mix on you. Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section or an exposed part, and then tuck it away when things thicken up again
300 to 1,000 Hz - Life: I call this the "life" of the electric, as many of the things that make an electric sound like an electric live in this range. So attenuating needs to be taken into consideration carefully. Too much though, and you start fighting with your snare and things like that, so take note
1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range
3,000 to 8,000 Hz - Brilliance and Presence: This is the range that can add shimmer or allow a guitar to cut through a mix when boosted. It can also be where you make cuts to keep a guitar from conflicting with a vocal. If making boosts in this range, keep an eye (ear?) out for noise, as any noise present from distortion/effects pedals will very quickly be accentuated as well


Attached Image

Those are some basic ideas. Many great guitarists sculpted their tone using EQ before the amp, in the effects loop, and after. Those ideas above are general sound and sound mixing ideas. The power of EQ is to shape your own sound. Scooped mids, singing treble, mid boost crunch etc.

You have 3 parametric eq's in your program that let you select the frequency and the q. The frequency obviously sets your target frequency, the level lets you set essentially a boost or dampening, the the q lets you essentially select the shape of the curve. Precise spike (or sort of), wider more bell shape and more frequencies effected. Essentially the q determines how frequencies close the the set frequency are effected by the boost or dampening. See pic below for an idea.

Attached Image

Your program also allow you to select where in the chain it appears since it has a setting labelled Post. Post amp,pre amp, post cab, pre cab etc.

You also have a graphic eq.

What I'd suggest is use the graphic eq to tone shape your sound and then use the PEQ as a fine tuning in various spots even post amp. Take the graphic eq mess around with it and see how it changes the sound. Try a standard boost treble or scooped mids or mid boosted. Put the GEQ before or after a distortion box, before or if able after the amp section. If your program allows, make a setting and then just move the GEQ around and see how it changes the sound based on where it is in the chain.

EQ can be a powerful tool. It is frequently underutilized. I imagine a few will post there eq ideas about tone and settings. There are some good snippets about effects here from an older site. http://www.amptone.com/#eqconcepts



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Phil66
post Mar 22 2017, 12:57 PM
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That's great, thanks, plenty to digest there.

What about the "gain only", "bandpass", "notch" and "peaking"?

Cheers folks smile.gif


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Mertay
post Mar 22 2017, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 22 2017, 11:57 AM) *
That's great, thanks, plenty to digest there.

What about the "gain only", "bandpass", "notch" and "peaking"?

Cheers folks smile.gif


Bandpass cuts both highs and lows together, not as detailed control as using 2 bands (one high and one low cut) but can be useful. If you open a wide one on an existing tone centered at the mids. it will probably remind you your boss tones from the gt100 as its sort of defoult on with that device (to my ears).

Notch is a very narrow eq, its there to fix unwanted sounds (like a high pitch sound one can hear when using a not so good adapter with a pedal)

Peaking is probably standard eq band

Gain only is probably there incase you want a clean boost

My tip to starting experimenting with eq is to start with the graphic eq, try to memorize by ear how the values affect the sound (the freq. and gain amounth increaased or decreased). As you get familiar, you'll want more fine-tuning and then the parametric will be super handy. Infact I got so used to it in time I create my own clean amps from eq's smile.gif


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Phil66
post Mar 22 2017, 09:48 PM
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Thanks folks,

Much learning to be done. I'm surprised at some of the sounds this thing can get. It's all about forgetting stomp boxes and learning how things work. Some have surprised me, obviously due to my lack of knowledge of how effects pedals work but things like the vibrato effect just created with digital echo! I have a lot of learning to do but slowly slowly catchy monkey wink.gif

A lot of the confusion is down to terminology. Like "high pass filter", why isn't it call "bass"? "Low pass filter" why isn't it called "Treble"?

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vibrato

Thanks for everything folks.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Mar 22 2017, 09:58 PM


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Mertay
post Mar 22 2017, 10:17 PM
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I think what you're hearing is a long reverb on that vibrato example, check the settings and let me know if thats the case. Also, combining fxtakes time to master so don't shy sharing such examples if ever needed again smile.gif

High pass filter cuts bass. Some use low-cut (cutting low freq.s) and some use high pass (letting only x amonth of higher freq.s pass) as terminology. Might be an American vs English terminology thing though I'm not sure.


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Phil66
post Mar 22 2017, 11:08 PM
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There is a reverb in there but if i switch that off, the vibrato is still there. I'll record it tomorrow. I'm finding this all very fascinating and at the same time, very liberating, freeing me from stomp box mentality, not that there is anything wrong with that but, i feel i will have a deeper understanding of effects in a year or so.

I don't understand this, "Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section".

What's a "wide cut", "1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range"

I still think if Boss could get amp sims as good as the Amplifire and Cab IRs with stomp box simplicity i might still be tempted.

Peace

This post has been edited by Phil66: Mar 23 2017, 08:02 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 23 2017, 03:18 AM
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THink of a wide cut as a long deep valley on an EQ curve. He's talking about doing a bit of a scoop between 1k and 2k to remove the "honk" midrange element which can be distracting. Some folks love wads of honk on their tone, I'm not one of them, but it does have it's place smile.gif

Boss has been working on their COSM modelling for quite some time it still sounds about the same as it always has imho. A bit digital, a bit fizzy. I keep hoping they will abandon cosm modeling entirely and use something else. They make great stomp boxes, but these days you can get one unit, like what you have, that is like having a dozen or more stomp boxes that you can change all the settings on with one foot switch.

You may find that you stll add a stomp or few at some point smile.gif Just to do very specific things. I use a hotone harmony for octave/harmony effects as well as a hotone gate on my pedal board when using the small hotone micro head, which is also attached to the pedal board. Also using a hotone XTOMP which allows you to upload new stomp boxes to it, and run two at a time, or use it as a head or cab sim. They release new pedals each week to be uploaded so it helps with my gear syndrome as there is always a new bit to try out without having to buy new pedals smile.gif

It's updated via bluetooth on a cell phone app so I strapped an old cell phone to the pedal board as well smile.gif Oh yeah! Almost forgo, the mini hotone wah. LOVE the sweep and range on this little wah. It's got a Kirk Hammett vibe which I dig smile.gif

So I mostly use my 11 rack, but I've ended up with yet another pedal board in addition smile.gif The pedal board is really its own rig complete with power amp, but together with the 11 I can do more than the 11 by itself and it's always fun to try out new pedal sims on the xtomp smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 22 2017, 06:08 PM) *
There is a reverb in the but if i switch that off, the vibrato is still there. I'll record it tomorrow. I'm finding this all very fascinating and at the same time, very liberating, freeing me from stomp box mentality, not that there is anything wrong with that but, i feel i will have a deeper understanding of effects in a year or so.

I don't understand this, "Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section".

What's a "wide cut", "1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range"

I still think if Boss could get amp sims as good as the Amplifire and Cab IRs with stomp box simplicity i might still be tempted.

Peace



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Phil66
post Mar 23 2017, 09:25 PM
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So, here is the vibrato effect just using the delay block, no reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vibrato-no-reverb

Here are the settings. I wish the interface could expand to show more but when you enlarge it it just makes everything bigger, you see no more mad.gif








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Mertay
post Mar 23 2017, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 22 2017, 10:08 PM) *
I don't understand this, "Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section".

What's a "wide cut", "1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range"


These are more to mixing tips when using eq plug-ins, probably will confuse you atleast till you get familiar enough with the eq.

I'm a bit unsure what your question is about the vibrato example, could you be asking the delay is sounding like a reverb? if so, yes a well setuped specially analog delay can be sensed like reverb to the listener. Specially pop-rock from England uses this trick a lot.


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Phil66
post Mar 23 2017, 10:34 PM
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Thanks buddy, I'll take it easy.

I didn't really have a question about the vibrato wink.gif I said "Some have surprised me, obviously due to my lack of knowledge of how effects pedals work but things like the vibrato effect just created with digital echo.

I think I am going to learn lots about stomp boxes and how many stomp boxes are really just tweaked and amalgamated versions of other effects, am I correct thinking this?

Cheers buddy


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 24 2017, 02:27 AM
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You are on deck to learn a ton of stuff smile.gif Sure some stomp box fx can be created by combining other effects to get a similar result. E.g. You can use a delay as a reverb if you set it correctly. It's time to dig in and tweak smile.gif

Just make sure you disable the cosm modeling and cabs on the GT. Also, both have their own converters and the atomic converters are nicer, so you may notice it alters your tone a pinch just having the GT in the chain with a single effect. I hope not though.

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 23 2017, 05:34 PM) *
Thanks buddy, I'll take it easy.

I didn't really have a question about the vibrato wink.gif I said "Some have surprised me, obviously due to my lack of knowledge of how effects pedals work but things like the vibrato effect just created with digital echo.

I think I am going to learn lots about stomp boxes and how many stomp boxes are really just tweaked and amalgamated versions of other effects, am I correct thinking this?

Cheers buddy



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Mertay
post Mar 24 2017, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 23 2017, 09:34 PM) *
Thanks buddy, I'll take it easy.

I didn't really have a question about the vibrato wink.gif I said "Some have surprised me, obviously due to my lack of knowledge of how effects pedals work but things like the vibrato effect just created with digital echo.

I think I am going to learn lots about stomp boxes and how many stomp boxes are really just tweaked and amalgamated versions of other effects, am I correct thinking this?

Cheers buddy


Ah cool smile.gif

And you are correct on your comment of way of thought. Thing with pedals is usually an engineer creating a sound a musician (in analog relm) to have a ready sound to be used. This is the reason the market is so flooded with pedals essentially doing the same thing but sounding only slightly different.

With digital its so easy to tweak for the musician as no soldering and parts needed like analog smile.gif its then about finding your own sound but in the process learning+liberating yourself from preset dependance.

Me for example, as I learned had a better experience with pedals cause I get more exact on what I'm searching for. Then analog feels even more fun and the gear is kept for often on the long run instead of constant change.


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Fran
post May 5 2017, 12:28 PM
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I tried to put together all the info in this thread in this wiki entry:
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/inde...p/Parametric_EQ

Feel free to add/change/correct whatever you guys see fit, or let me know about it smile.gif


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