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> Huge Dilemma, SWAP OR NOT
Phil66
post May 1 2017, 08:07 PM
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Here's another Vai try, a bit of help from the Line 6 Helix forum. Stock cabs here.

Any tips? I think I need to back off the treble a bit

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/ftlog-2

Cheers

UPDATE:

Treble and presence backed off slightly, different mic and position. I need one of those string dampers rolleyes.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/ftlog-3

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 1 2017, 08:33 PM


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Mertay
post May 1 2017, 09:13 PM
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You're in the territory thats for sure, to me if you really want to nail it using a backing track would help.


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Phil66
post May 1 2017, 10:08 PM
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Thanks, Mertay is definitely sounding a bit more organic to me. When I get chance I'm going to try an ir.

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 2 2017, 12:11 PM
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A few months ago there was this guy offering 777 dolars for a tone match to vai's FLOG solo sound smile.gif the topic on that forum had quite a few replys and even probably now that guy is still buying gear biggrin.gif

Very cool way to get into the detail of the device but adjusting the details can go forever, careful about that smile.gif


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Phil66
post May 2 2017, 12:41 PM
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Yeah thanks Mertay,

I think it's close enough to be recognisable, it's been good to get to know the basics of the LT. One thing I noticed when doing this is that when played back in reaper, if I turn the volume up it sounds like it has more treble and even more so after rendering to mp3.

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 2 2017, 04:18 PM
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The better impulses are created with a cab. working very loud, just like how they sound best in real life. The needed presence is there only when the output is hot enough. Thats why before recording, adjusting the rec. input level before doing any eq'ing is important. After that if needed adjust the backingtracks output usually is easier.

But as for the mp3 sounding brighter, the only reason I can think of is if you didn't leave any headroom before rendering. For example; say a track peaks at -0.3, so its not clipping but very near. When rendering, changing the samplerate or converting to mp3 might cause that sound to clip. When mixing, leave a few db of headroom. When mastering limit the output (from limiter plug-in) minimum -0.3 (more if mp3 conversion clips).

Or maybe the mp3 converter in reaper isn't very good, just sharing thoughts. Anyway, a little headroom is always good. Uploaded players (soundcloud, youtube) mangles with the sound file anyway.


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Phil66
post May 2 2017, 04:33 PM
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Thanks Mertay,

I always have my peaks at -6db. Also it sounds brighter just straight from Reaper BEFORE rendering. If I playback at the same level as recorded (using ears as gauge for level) it sounds the same but if I move the slider up, still not clipping, it sounds brighter. It maybe be an acoustic illusion though I guess.

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 2 2017, 04:39 PM
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Just to clarify, you are recording the guitar as near 0 db as possible then decreasing right?


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Phil66
post May 2 2017, 07:26 PM
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No buddy, I set my input level so the meter goes to -6db. I've done this since you said something to me about "getting to a more healthy -6db" back when I was first seeing up my SM57 and trying to get levels to record workout blowing my windows out. I bought my Presonus mic preamp to sort that. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant unsure.gif
Cheers


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jstcrsn
post May 2 2017, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 2 2017, 07:26 PM) *
No buddy, I set my input level so the meter goes to -6db. I've done this since you said something to me about "getting to a more healthy -6db" back when I was first seeing up my SM57 and trying to get levels to record workout blowing my windows out. I bought my Presonus mic preamp to sort that. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant unsure.gif
Cheers

try recording with your Via setting , your channel settings when recording should be as hot as possible without clipping , when you render the project ( your mains ) thats when its - 3 . the - 6 only is really going to come into a full recording with gainstagging so I would not worry about that yet , but for a quick down and dirty , do the above

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Mertay
post May 2 2017, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 2 2017, 06:26 PM) *
No buddy, I set my input level so the meter goes to -6db. I've done this since you said something to me about "getting to a more healthy -6db" back when I was first seeing up my SM57 and trying to get levels to record workout blowing my windows out. I bought my Presonus mic preamp to sort that. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant unsure.gif
Cheers


Ah ok, I remembered now though not in detail smile.gif let me explain;

In pure analog world equipment aren't actually ment to record as hot as we do with todays soundcard (including preamps)+ DAW. The emulations in DAW (like a Neve comp. or api eq etc. ...) and even the digital DAW itself sounds warmer when not set to capture to digital peaks. This is sort of why DAW's give such option to record+work with more headroom so you didn't do anything wrong.

Now I'm not 100% certain of this but there is a good chance the helix is adjusted such levels inside for you (as amp,mic. and even soundcard) and only leaves you to capture the outcome of the total chain. So its sort of like playing back from a computer and capturing the sound with another, in this scenario the capturing standard 0db is more logical (the hotter the better without clipping)

Helix used as soundcard is the purest path, you can however connect the helix to the presonus then soundcard (focusrite if I remember correct) to get the presonus tube-vibe for warmth. It will add some extra noise but shouldn't be too bad (output as much from helix, preamp from presonus as less increased as possible). Really depends on your liking how you want to setup the chain.

Lets try this (recording set to 0db) when you have the time and let me know if you find a positive difference.

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 2 2017, 09:02 PM


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Phil66
post May 2 2017, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 2 2017, 08:06 PM) *
when you render the project ( your mains ) thats when its - 3 . the - 6 only is really going to come into a full recording with gainstagging so I would not worry about that yet , but for a quick down and dirty , do the above


Thanks buddy, but I really don't get that bit unsure.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 2 2017, 09:02 PM
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Fine advice per usual smile.gif The MP3 file format is just going to butcher your tone a bit as it's gutting wads of signal info for the sake of saving space. You can export full wave or aif and upload those, it will just take longer to upload to soundcloud. But even then, soundcloud re renders it so they can stream it and it gets squashed again. Such is life in the big city eh?

Todd

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 2 2017, 03:06 PM) *
try recording with your Via setting , your channel settings when recording should be as hot as possible without clipping , when you render the project ( your mains ) thats when its - 3 . the - 6 only is really going to come into a full recording with gainstagging so I would not worry about that yet , but for a quick down and dirty , do the above



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jstcrsn
post May 2 2017, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 2 2017, 08:59 PM) *
Thanks buddy, but I really don't get that bit unsure.gif
It's more for mastering and having enough headroom to eq things properly .

If you are downloading a backing and adding 1 or 2 tracks don't worry about that . Always record with your signal as hot as possible without clipping
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Rammikin
post May 3 2017, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 2 2017, 11:41 AM) *
One thing I noticed when doing this is that when played back in reaper, if I turn the volume up it sounds like it has more treble and


If I understand you correctly, yes, that's to be expected. The human ear is more sensitive to high frequencies at higher volumes. It's called the Fletcher-Munson effect.



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Phil66
post May 3 2017, 07:06 AM
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Thanks everyone,

Always learning eh? smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 3 2017, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 3 2017, 06:06 AM) *
Always learning eh? smile.gif


The best way of living! smile.gif


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Phil66
post May 3 2017, 09:21 PM
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Oh yes smile.gif

And I've just learned that there has been 2 firmware updates and an editor update since I got this blink.gif smile.gif


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bleez
post May 3 2017, 10:36 PM
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Already sounding pretty damn good to me in those clips smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 3 2017, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 3 2017, 08:21 PM) *
Oh yes smile.gif

And I've just learned that there has been 2 firmware updates and an editor update since I got this blink.gif smile.gif


biggrin.gif

Update for processors very rarely causes problems (unlike software updates), but still its always good to wait a bit and follow the official forums.


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