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> What Causes This Noise?
Phil66
post May 4 2017, 09:18 PM
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Hello folks,

OK, I know this happens but what causes it? It was worse with my GT100 than with this Helix LT, is it the sound of the processors? I find it odd that it increases when the string is moving and is hardly there (with the volume I have set anyway) when I deaden the string. Obviously, when you pick harder the note drowns out the hiss. Is there anything that can stop it?

Please excuse my ignorance of equipment rolleyes.gif

Cheers
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/hissing





This post has been edited by Phil66: May 5 2017, 10:17 AM


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Mertay
post May 4 2017, 09:26 PM
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It there when the gain of the sıftware amp is set to zero? (and no real or virtual pedals before it)


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Phil66
post May 4 2017, 09:40 PM
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WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!

How has that happened?? The embeded player isn't my recording, click on the artist's name, what is weird is that the link beneath the embedded player takes you to my recording.

I renamed the track and uploaded again and now it won;t put the embedded player in there. The link is correct though.

Very very very strange.

UPDATE: Sorted and removed. Thanks Kris.

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 5 2017, 10:17 AM


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Mertay
post May 4 2017, 10:14 PM
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When I replyed there was nolink, now the one I see is very creepy biggrin.gif but yeah when followed the link I was directed to your channel.

Also I'd like to ask, does moving the mouse or scrolling the DAW or a webpage has an effect on the sound?


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Phil66
post May 4 2017, 10:48 PM
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The mouse has no effect mate. It's always there more with a drive pedal in the chain, software or hardware wink.gif


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Mertay
post May 4 2017, 11:08 PM
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Last week I got to try the line6 plug-in amps that are bundled with their soundcards. Actually liked them (aside cab.s) as they feel a bit more organic compared to freeware plug-ins.

But I also noticed this had to do with the way they were designed, to my ears theres a compressor inside them which gives the reaction character to them. It sort of feels like a gate but its actually one of the elements hidden under the hood of their software amps. It does increase noise with such subtle picking just like you shared. What I also noticed was this didn't happen when the gain of any amp was set to zero, pure clean tone.

Did you try yet to record at hotter levels? the only way to reduce that is keeping the noise (which is already there) down as much as possiible. The most noise-free solution would be the Helix working as the soundcard and the guitar connected directly to it (no pedals). Then we'll focus on other gear you have if you want them included to the chain.

Keep in mind some noise is normal, I for example although could just run a soundcard prefer to connect the processor (to soundcard) with pedals. This isn't the most noise-free solution but its low enough for me compared to the tone I like.

I asked the mouse and scrolling cause (probably) my graphics card make a noise similar to your sharing (not a pure hiss but something digital-like). Annoying, but low enough to be managable for recording.

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 4 2017, 11:37 PM


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jstcrsn
post May 5 2017, 12:33 AM
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you might have answered this , but where is your gate in the chain
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Phil66
post May 5 2017, 07:34 AM
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In that patch, I'm not sure there is one. I won't have time to look for a week as I am going on holiday.

I'lll catch up when I get back.

Cheers buddy smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 5 2017, 07:52 AM
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Cool, enjoy the holiday! smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 5 2017, 07:41 PM
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From the sound of it, you are talking about noise as a result of using a patch with a bit of gain? So just add a noise gate right? is that the issue you are trying to solve or am I misunderstanding?

Todd
QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 4 2017, 04:18 PM) *
Hello folks,

OK, I know this happens but what causes it? It was worse with my GT100 than with this Helix LT, is it the sound of the processors? I find it odd that it increases when the string is moving and is hardly there (with the volume I have set anyway) when I deaden the string. Obviously, when you pick harder the note drowns out the hiss. Is there anything that can stop it?

Please excuse my ignorance of equipment rolleyes.gif

Cheers
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/hissing



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Phil66
post May 5 2017, 08:00 PM
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Thanks Todd,

I'm not really trying to solve anything, I just want to understand why the noise is there and why it increases with the note volume.
If you have hum from single coils it doesn't increase when you touch the string. I'm just wanting to understand things really. I thought it was maybe the sound of digital processing at work.
If I can understand, rather than just be told how to fix it, it will help. Obviously being told how to fix it is good but, why the fix works is better.

Cheers smile.gif


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Mertay
post May 5 2017, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 5 2017, 06:41 PM) *
From the sound of it, you are talking about noise as a result of using a patch with a bit of gain? So just add a noise gate right? is that the issue you are trying to solve or am I misunderstanding?

Todd


Hey Todd, when explaining to Phil66 I wrote a compressor under the hood but now thinking I ment expander.

Though not as obvious, during my tests I also noticed it and think its uniqe to line6 amp modeling. I think under the hood, the expander is right before the gain stage clipping cause when I decreased the gain to zero this didn't happen. The good is overdrive reacts a bit more organic to guitars dynamics but on low gain/subtle picking if the signal path isn't silent to some-what to a standard then the noise might be annoying.

Before working on the gate, I want to get in a bit detailed with phil's analog chain to see if we can lower that self noise once he returns from holiday. Also, personally I'd like to think of the gate as a last resort rather than first cause in home studio environment with proper gain-staging it might be avoidable even with high-gain.

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 5 2017, 08:32 PM


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GeneT95
post May 5 2017, 11:35 PM
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Mertay's idea of checking his chain, pun intended, is the best bet. Sounds like noise from his chain, also akin to ground loop hum, that can't be heard until he plays as the gate, or always active noise suppression, crushes it until something sounds above the threshold. As the sounds decays, there is a point that the gate suppresses the noise too as the signal strength dips below the set threshold. So the noise is heard as the note sounds and then as the note fades it is cut off at a specific threshold, to return when another string is plucked.

Phill has noise in the signal somewhere likely pre-gain stages and pre-noise suppressor (even if it is just the program's innate always active suppression that most people don't fiddle with). It's louder with a higher gain patch as the gain stage also amplifies the noise.

It can be a difficult thing to track down at times.

If he has no peddles before the input, check with another guitar. If both guitars are doing it, it's in the program (or input device) or possibly the guitar cable itself. Check with another cable of a different make. If only one guitar does it, then it's the guitar's wiring (like a loose connection or pickup) or a function of guitar itself (like an unshielded single coil)

It doesn't sound cyclic as a ground loop of the input device (helix) or power cable picking up static from another source. I had similar noise once and it took a while to figure out because it had nothing really to do with my gear but an overhead fan. When the fan was running, it affected the power supply in a fashion to produce static/noise. I have also had similar noise when one pedal was plugged into a different power source than the other pedals.

This post has been edited by GeneT95: May 5 2017, 11:36 PM
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Todd Simpson
post May 6 2017, 02:55 AM
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I think I'm getting a better idea of the goal now smile.gif

Using a compressor/expander is a good way to both limit dynamic range and to raise the lowest volume notes up to close oto the louder notes. The compressor sorta sets the lout limit as it where by compressing the signal. The expander brings low volume notes up a bit. The result, when done correctly, is that you don't get huge swings in volume but you can also end up "Raising the noise floor" which is to say bringing background noise up to the level of the rest of the notes being played.

As you know single coils are notorius for hum. Some are designed to be "noiseless" though I gather few actually attain this. Turn each effect in your chain off, and add them back one by one. This will let you know where the trouble spot lives.

The more gain you use, the more noise you have to contend with typically.

The ratio on your compressor will determine the relationship of the quitests note to the loudest note. EG. 2to1 compression vs 10 to 1 compression. Play around with the compressor settings until you find the right balance.

Then add a gate as the last thing in your chain and try to use as little as possible. It can kill sustsain if it's set to roughly smile.gif Hope this helps!

Todd

QUOTE (Mertay @ May 5 2017, 03:32 PM) *
Hey Todd, when explaining to Phil66 I wrote a compressor under the hood but now thinking I ment expander.

Though not as obvious, during my tests I also noticed it and think its uniqe to line6 amp modeling. I think under the hood, the expander is right before the gain stage clipping cause when I decreased the gain to zero this didn't happen. The good is overdrive reacts a bit more organic to guitars dynamics but on low gain/subtle picking if the signal path isn't silent to some-what to a standard then the noise might be annoying.

Before working on the gate, I want to get in a bit detailed with phil's analog chain to see if we can lower that self noise once he returns from holiday. Also, personally I'd like to think of the gate as a last resort rather than first cause in home studio environment with proper gain-staging it might be avoidable even with high-gain.



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Phil66
post May 10 2017, 04:46 PM
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Cheers Todd.

I was wondering why the noise was only there when the string is vibrating, it made me think it was the sound of the processing itself.

Thanks


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Spock
post May 10 2017, 04:48 PM
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I have bad cords or drained batteries in my FX loop make the same exact sound. Also make sure any inputs on pedals or your cabinet don't need to be tightened down.
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Todd Simpson
post May 12 2017, 05:09 AM
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Do you have a noise gate on that patch? If so, ,try turning it off so you can see what is going on even when no string is being struck. The noise could be there the whole time, just getting cut off by the noise gate and then coming through when the gate is tripped off by hitting a guitar string.

it could be many things, but starting out with the gate idea to see if there is something there all along smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 10 2017, 11:46 AM) *
Cheers Todd.

I was wondering why the noise was only there when the string is vibrating, it made me think it was the sound of the processing itself.

Thanks



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Phil66
post May 12 2017, 09:06 AM
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Ahhhhh, good point, I'll check when I'm home.

Cheers


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Phil66
post May 14 2017, 08:20 PM
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OK,

No noise gate, guitar into Red Squeeze compressor>Engle head>4x12>Deluxe compressor>Chrous>Simple delay>plate reverb.

I didn't put them in this order it was as the patch was found wink.gif

Cheers


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Mertay
post May 14 2017, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 14 2017, 07:20 PM) *
OK,

No noise gate, guitar into Red Squeeze compressor>Engle head>4x12>Deluxe compressor>Chrous>Simple delay>plate reverb.

I didn't put them in this order it was as the patch was found wink.gif

Cheers


try removing the comp.s and add gain fom engl head to compansate, first without gate and see if a gate is needed.


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