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> What Causes This Noise?
Phil66
post May 16 2017, 10:06 PM
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Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

I'm not so bad now I know what it is. Like a take in your car., it annoys the hell out of you when you don't know what's causing it but once you know what's causing it, if you can't fix it, you live with it wink.gif

Cheers and thanks for everything smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 16 2017, 11:46 PM
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I used to have something similar in my last place. The only way around it was to use my laptop to record and use my USB to quarter inch adapter (the same cable that comes with rock band) to go guitar/laptop and use the laptop battery and not plug in to the wall. My TH2 plugin let me hear amp/dist/fx while recording which was great. Doing this, I was able to get much cleaner recordings. I eventually sold all my desktop machines and ended up with 3 Macbook Pros smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 16 2017, 05:06 PM) *
Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

I'm not so bad now I know what it is. Like a take in your car., it annoys the hell out of you when you don't know what's causing it but once you know what's causing it, if you can't fix it, you live with it wink.gif

Cheers and thanks for everything smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 16 2017, 11:49 PM


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Phil66
post May 17 2017, 09:22 PM
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My PC has a plexi window in the side but I do have a solid aluminium side panel too, do you think it would help to put the solid aluminium one on? I'm thinking shielding?

If you don't think it will help I won't bother going into the attic to find it out wink.gif

The case is a LianLi V2000 that is upside down, ie, the power supply is in the bottom section and the motherboard on the left hand side.


Would this help do you think? Go to 1:30 unless you want to see him set up his laptop and cab rolleyes.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSA2F1AwboU



Here is a recording, it starts with the USB plug in the back of the Helix LT and then out, back in, out and back in. IS there anything I can put into the USB line to supress it?
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/usb-in-out-in-out

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 17 2017, 09:37 PM


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Mertay
post May 17 2017, 09:50 PM
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Honestly I have no idea about the aluminum side panel being helpful or not. I would say worth a shot if not too much of a hassle smile.gif

The video was nice but it doesn't seem to work for our needs. He placed the behringer humm eliminator from soundcard output to the amp input, while our problem is the noise from the pc thats why for recording I'm not so sure about that.

The double insulated power supply approach seems more like what we need but thats not applyable for a pc...or I guess my online ups suggestion comes closest option. I think its best if you make a topic about this and not only here but other forums as well sad.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 17 2017, 09:52 PM
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I notice in the video that when he unplugs the power, things get quiet. When I used my laptop using only the battery like I mentioned, and the rock band guitar to usb cable, it was dead quiet. I watched through the video but I think I missed what he is trying to show? Maybe you could explain it?

As for getting the usb quiet, you can buy usb cables with a small ant rf filter on them. Also, your cables should be shielded. If they are not, they can pick up all sorts of crud. Crappy cheap cables are not always shielded. If guitar cables are sheilded, they will usually brag about it on the packaging or web site.

As for your case. I have no idea. You could always try it? I'm very thankful that I got away from destop machines as they did tend to be noisier. My macbooks tend to be kinda quiet. When running on battery they are very quiet. But I usually run on connected power.

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 17 2017, 04:22 PM) *
My PC has a plexi window in the side but I do have a solid aluminium side panel too, do you think it would help to put the solid aluminium one on? I'm thinking shielding?

If you don't think it will help I won't bother going into the attic to find it out wink.gif

The case is a LianLi V2000 that is upside down, ie, the power supply is in the bottom section and the motherboard on the left hand side.


Would this help do you think? Go to 1:30 unless you want to see him set up his laptop and cab rolleyes.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSA2F1AwboU



Here is a recording, it starts with the USB plug in the back of the Helix LT and then out, back in, out and back in. IS there anything I can put into the USB line to supress it?
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/usb-in-out-in-out

Cheers



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Mertay
post May 17 2017, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 17 2017, 08:52 PM) *
...


Hey Todd, after phill's test we sort of concluded the noise main source was from the computer being fed by lesser I guess reguladed power (as in his garage phill noticed less noise).

My idea is an online ups feeding the desktop will be the same solution to a laptop being powered by its battery. What I'm not certain is 1-if this will work 100% as personally I didn't try this at home (though do know all decent studios use them) and 2-which online ups to buy.

I checked options in my country, they can be really cheap or really expensive. Aside calculating how much power is needed, which models fix any imbalance/distruption of flow of electricity is what I can't help to Phill.


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Todd Simpson
post May 18 2017, 02:47 AM
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Powering an entire rig with a UPS for any length of time will be pricey. I have a UPS attached to my laptop/hd tv rig and it cuts out after about 10 minutes and it cost a couple hundred bux and is a rack mount UPS. Also, when engaged, the ups seems to create more noise than the regular juice from the wall for some reason. Then again, it could just be the UPS that I bought but I bought a nice one.

Perhaps a line filter at the wall would cut down on noise a bit? You can get these cheap. $25 @ amazon
Attached Image



QUOTE (Mertay @ May 17 2017, 06:06 PM) *
Hey Todd, after phill's test we sort of concluded the noise main source was from the computer being fed by lesser I guess reguladed power (as in his garage phill noticed less noise).

My idea is an online ups feeding the desktop will be the same solution to a laptop being powered by its battery. What I'm not certain is 1-if this will work 100% as personally I didn't try this at home (though do know all decent studios use them) and 2-which online ups to buy.

I checked options in my country, they can be really cheap or really expensive. Aside calculating how much power is needed, which models fix any imbalance/distruption of flow of electricity is what I can't help to Phill.



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Phil66
post May 18 2017, 07:30 AM
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I have another issue developing sad.gif My ears are zooming in on the sound now and I can detect more as time goes by. It's starting to get on my tits so much that I'm getting obsessive about it now. mad.gif


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Mertay
post May 18 2017, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 18 2017, 01:47 AM) *
Powering an entire rig with a UPS for any length of time will be pricey. I have a UPS attached to my laptop/hd tv rig and it cuts out after about 10 minutes and it cost a couple hundred bux and is a rack mount UPS. Also, when engaged, the ups seems to create more noise than the regular juice from the wall for some reason. Then again, it could just be the UPS that I bought but I bought a nice one.

Perhaps a line filter at the wall would cut down on noise a bit? You can get these cheap. $25 @ amazon
Attached Image


My guess is yours an offline UPS, to my knowledge offline works only when the power is out (like a laptop battery) while online charges and sends its own power constantly.

Also what I vaugely remember from chats with people in time was active solutions are better cause some say noise gets worse at dibs (valley? I mean momentarily or constant lower than needed power) rather than peaks.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 18 2017, 06:30 AM) *
I have another issue developing sad.gif My ears are zooming in on the sound now and I can detect more as time goes by. It's starting to get on my tits so much that I'm getting obsessive about it now. mad.gif


I some-what remember Darius having some experience about similar situations, maybe a pm could be helpful.


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Phil66
post May 18 2017, 12:13 PM
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The main thing is the interference from the PC though, not the mains. I'm going to bring my work laptop home this weekend and record the PC noise and the PC shutting down just revealing the mains noise.

I think I might end up going the Laptop route, that's a NGD I didn't want laugh.gif let's hope a laptop on battery power doesn't give issues rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 18 2017, 09:22 PM


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Mertay
post May 18 2017, 08:55 PM
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Sure, logical to try. There are ups and downs to buying a new computer though, before that trying to find an expert is worth a try too.


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Phil66
post May 18 2017, 09:23 PM
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I'll do some sound tests and let you know. I won't need a super computer because I don't really use plugins, I use external hardware as you know so I don't really experience latency smile.gif


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Phil66
post May 19 2017, 10:25 PM
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Ok, I set up my work laptop for recording, I record some samples which I will post tomorrow. It's very promising. Even with my main pc switched on the is no interference unless I put the guitar next to the pc, the sound I get them is different to the sound I got before.

I get a single very high frequency signal when I have certain screens on the laptop but I think it's the speakers and I don't think it would be recorded. All of the above are with the Scarlett input levels on max.

When I have levels set for normal recording there is nothing that I can detect smile.gif

Cheers


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Todd Simpson
post May 20 2017, 02:50 AM
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You are correct! Active solution may be the key, also, something to filter the power. These can start cheap but can get really pricey as well. Some of the solutions cost more than a new laptop. I still say a pair of headphone and a laptop is an easy way to get away from bad house power smile.gif You can drive yourself CRAZY trying to figure out where the electrics have gone wrong, and go broke trying to fix it. At some point, it starts taking time away from practice and making music. When it gets to that point, I'd honestly consider skipping all of it, using a direct cable and laptop and being as happy as possible and focusing on playing rather than tracking gremlins.

EDIT: JUST READ YOUR UPDATE! Glad to hear that the laptop approach is going better smile.gif I had a feeling it would. All of my desktop solutions have had more noise than my macbook pro laptops. Some folks never have any issues. I certainly did. Sold all my desktops as a result like I mentioned and switched to all laptops for music production. I still sometimes get noise in the lines, at that point, I just unplug the laptop from wall, plugin my heaphones directly to the laptop and use my rockband usb to quarter inch cable and overloud th2 for recording. Then the next day, the noise will be gone. No idea what causes it, but I don't let it drive me nuts anymore. smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Mertay @ May 18 2017, 03:33 AM) *
My guess is yours an offline UPS, to my knowledge offline works only when the power is out (like a laptop battery) while online charges and sends its own power constantly.

Also what I vaugely remember from chats with people in time was active solutions are better cause some say noise gets worse at dibs (valley? I mean momentarily or constant lower than needed power) rather than peaks.



I some-what remember Darius having some experience about similar situations, maybe a pm could be helpful.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 20 2017, 02:53 AM


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Phil66
post May 20 2017, 09:55 AM
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Thanks yeah, is one of those things we can obsess about in a "I ain't letting that mofo beat me!" kinda way and it takes over your life and wallet. Bypassing the issue is best.

If it for the day now, getting on the train as parking will be tricky and going HERE. This evening I will post those sounds and I'll get a laptop tomorrow or sometime in the week.

Cheers buddy.


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Mertay
post May 20 2017, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 19 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Ok, I set up my work laptop for recording, I record some samples which I will post tomorrow. It's very promising. Even with my main pc switched on the is no interference unless I put the guitar next to the pc, the sound I get them is different to the sound I got before.

I get a single very high frequency signal when I have certain screens on the laptop but I think it's the speakers and I don't think it would be recorded. All of the above are with the Scarlett input levels on max.

When I have levels set for normal recording there is nothing that I can detect smile.gif

Cheers


This is with the laptop not running on its battery right?


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Phil66
post May 20 2017, 10:56 AM
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I did pull the cable and it didn't make much difference. I'm wondering while I sit waiting for the train, if the high frequency noise, is caused by the Laptop monitor as it's only on certain screens. I'll switch the monitor off next time it happens. I will be using my main monitor when I get a laptop.

I don't know if you ever get it but sometimes I hear a very high frequency sound when I'm just sitting in the house with my wife, she doesn't hear it but, if you do, that is the frequency of this signal. I hope that makes sense wink.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 20 2017, 10:57 AM


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Mertay
post May 20 2017, 07:13 PM
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Also check with the cable pulled out if that high freq. is there or not (and if it gets into the recording). 2 different computers may be reacting giving 2 different sounds to the same electricity problem, depending on result this might probably determine if you need a laptop or an online ups type device.



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Todd Simpson
post May 20 2017, 07:43 PM
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I have had this very same problem with computer monitors and with some HDTV sets. If you just hold your guitar close to the monitor the noise can get so loud that it overpowers the noise gate and you near the noise full on. Some monitors are just not shielded properly and they all emit some sort of noise that can be picked up via guitar pickups in my experience. Turning on the computer monitor is a good way to test it and see if it's the culprit. I finally found an HDTV and it's even an off brand, that doesn't seem to create severe noise bleed. The laptops I've used all seem to make less detectible noise in general, plugged in or not. Sometimes I hear line noise, I don't know if it's construction crews or a hair dryer, and I just unplug the laptop and the noise stops. I"m using a cheap westinghouse HDTV as my main monitor and it doesn't make much noise at all. Especially compared to my computer monitors, even the pricey apple monitors that I used to use.
QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 20 2017, 05:56 AM) *
I did pull the cable and it didn't make much difference. I'm wondering while I sit waiting for the train, if the high frequency noise, is caused by the Laptop monitor as it's only on certain screens. I'll switch the monitor off next time it happens. I will be using my main monitor when I get a laptop.

I don't know if you ever get it but sometimes I hear a very high frequency sound when I'm just sitting in the house with my wife, she doesn't hear it but, if you do, that is the frequency of this signal. I hope that makes sense wink.gif


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klasaine
post May 20 2017, 08:10 PM
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At a certain point there will never be 'nothing'. There's always some background noise and when you know that, yes, you do become really sensitive to it. I too hear in my own house occasionally a high-pitched whine. I know I'm not imagining it.
My power in the entire neighborhood is pretty dirty. I filter my little rehearsal/practice space with one of these https://www.tripplite.com/2400w-120v-3u-rac...utlets~LCR2400/

This is an interesting read ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_of_...round_radiation
I'll synopsize. In the 50s two radio astronomers were trying find the source of and eliminate rfi (noise) in their radio telescope lines. There was a little bit that they ultimately could not get rid of. It turns out it is the residual background radiation from the big bang. They both won the Nobel for their discovery in 1964.





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