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> Shake Your Head Or Die
Kristofer Dahl
post May 17 2017, 02:16 PM
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Sorry for that title but I felt I needed to get your attention here.

Please check out Rated's latest REC take:
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=58188

Compare with this new video which he recorded this morning:



Please let me know your impressions? This could be the start of an interesting discussion!


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Rated Htr
post May 17 2017, 02:21 PM
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I'm so honored and so grateful for this smile.gif

Kris gave me valuable feedback and I decided to put it to use regardless of the mistakes or errors I could make. The reason I'm always in my head is because I don't want to allow mistakes to happen and that makes me stiff and not concerned about the feel and the flow I can have.

My advice is to just let it go, record it! Even if it has mistakes but always have fun and shake your head biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Thanks again Kris smile.gif


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Phil66
post May 17 2017, 02:22 PM
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Wow

Really getting into it on the second video. Sounds more relaxed and groovier to me too.

I think some of us don't nod our head too much due to being a little self conscious of you know what I mean?

Nice work Rated smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 17 2017, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 17 2017, 03:22 PM) *
I think some of us don't nod our head too much due to being a little self conscious of you know what I mean?


Yes, it's like we're thinking 'I am not good enough for that yet'. Whereas it's the other way around, you have to shake it to actually get good.

Sometimes playing 'with feeling' can be as easy as this!

Well done Rated!


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Monica Gheorghev...
post May 17 2017, 04:04 PM
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Kris you can shoot me but I like more his first version smile.gif
It's true that the second version sounds more groovy but from my point of view on the solo part this type of "be free" playing can make you lose the focus. You can catch a groovy playing but you can lose the most important things which we must achieve from the GMC lessons...the details. Also the right pitch for some bends is lost in the second version and he really executed these correctly in the first approach.

I would be curious to see if somebody can play in the style of "shake of the head" the staccato notes from 0:55 (timing point from original lesson) which must be played after that lazy bend.

Rated, I enjoyed very much your take from REC. You made a really great job! smile.gif
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klasaine
post May 17 2017, 04:17 PM
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Rated just knows it more by the second take so he's more comfortable cutting loose with the body language.

Both takes are good. The second one is better. I would say primarily due to familiarity and practice.

In my experience with teaching, many novice players (young and old) are way too influenced by what they see rock stars doing 'on stage'. That comes after you've nailed the part. Not before. If you can't play the part - at least technically - sitting or standing relatively still ... bobbing your head and/or making big gestures with your arms, etc. is just a waste of muscle energy and focus.

Once you can 'play' it right, then go for it.

This post has been edited by klasaine: May 17 2017, 04:18 PM


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Phil66
post May 17 2017, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ May 17 2017, 04:04 PM) *
Kris you can shoot me but I like more his first version smile.gif
It's true that the second version sounds more groovy but from my point of view on the solo part this type of "be free" playing can make you lose the focus. You can catch a groovy playing but you can lose the most important things which we must achieve from the GMC lessons...the details. Also the right pitch for some bends is lost in the second version and he really executed these correctly in the first approach.

I would be curious to see if somebody can play in the style of "shake of the head" the staccato notes from 0:55 (timing point from original lesson) which must be played after that lazy bend.

Rated, I enjoyed very much your take from REC. You made a really great job! smile.gif


I think that when you watch the top players, like Satriani etc, they shake their heads on the easier (to them) bits, but watch Mr Satriani when he does the single handed arpeggios in Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing, his head doesn't move much wink.gif

I think it demonstrates that there is a time for head shake and a time for a more rigid but still relaxed state of body. Give me groove over "total accuracy" any day. Obviously we dont want to hear or be sloppy but groove is what makes people dance smile.gif

Having said all that, I'm always as stiff as a board when playing, for fear of making a mistake. I guess, like with everything, we can get a good head shaking groove AND accuracy over time but the more intricate parts will always require full attention.

Great post Kris

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 17 2017, 07:54 PM


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Rated Htr
post May 17 2017, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ May 17 2017, 04:17 PM) *
Rated just knows it more by the second take so he's more comfortable cutting loose with the body language.

Both takes are good. The second one is better. I would say primarily due to familiarity and practice.

In my experience with teaching, many novice players (young and old) are way too influenced by what they see rock stars doing 'on stage'. That comes after you've nailed the part. Not before. If you can't play the part - at least technically - sitting or standing relatively still ... bobbing your head and/or making big gestures with your arms, etc. is just a waste of muscle energy and focus.

Once you can 'play' it right, then go for it.


Just to let you know, I recorded the first take yesterday than the second one was the first take I did today once I picked the guitar up laugh.gif

That's exactly how I thought. I still want to get everything right but doing the second take made me also realize that I can't be afraid to record something just because I can spot a mistake or that some muting isn't there. Making the second take just made me see what licks I have to work on better because that's when my head paused (made a mistake) because it didn't come naturally to my fingers.

So from my point of view, practicing it and than recording like the second take is a great way to see if you can truly play and be free from being overly focused on it smile.gif


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Monica Gheorghev...
post May 17 2017, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 17 2017, 03:31 PM) *
I think that when you watch the top players, like Satriani etc, they shake their heads on the easier (to them) bits, but watch Mr Satriani when he does the single handed arpeggios in Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing, he head doesn't move much wink.gif

I think it demonstrates that there is a time for head shake and a time for a more rigid but still relaxed state of body. Give me groove over "total accuracy" any day. Obviously we dont want to hear or be sloppy but groove is what makes people dance smile.gif

Having said all that, I'm always as stiff as a board when playing, for fear of making a mistake. I guess, like with everything, we can get a good head shaking groove AND accuracy over time but the more intricate parts will always require full attention.

Great post Kris

You can play groovy without to shake the head (our instructors are a true example) smile.gif
The groove not comes from how much you move the body when you play but comes from years of practicing, experience, etc.
From my point of view the "shaking head" playing style is more a visual effect which is fun for some viewers (I'm not one of them). Will not give you a better playing...this is just an illusion. You can move your body and still sounds square because you replaced the focus for details.
Also, do you believe that some top players when they record an album in a studio, they act like on stage? I don't think so. Some "devils" from stage are just "quietly cats" in a studio biggrin.gif

It's not about to choose between total accuracy when you play and groove. From my point of view, a "perfect" playing without groove is nothing and groove without technical details is useless.
My opinion is do not replace the details trying to make some unnecessary movements. If you feel to shake the head when you play, do it but would be better to make this in the moment when you can keep a balance between body movements and techniques wink.gif
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klasaine
post May 17 2017, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Rated Htr @ May 17 2017, 09:18 AM) *
Just to let you know, I recorded the first take yesterday than the second one was the first take I did today once I picked the guitar up laugh.gif


Exactly! You still had an entire day to absorb the music from 1st vid take to 2nd vid take. You had a day to think about it and internalize it.
Learning doesn't just take place on the instrument. Most of it is in your head. "If you know where you're going, you will usually get there". Sometimes the instrument is a detriment.

Many musicians often times struggle with something for hours or days on end. Then they put the instrument down, walk away for maybe 5 hours or maybe sleep on it ... and nail it the first time when they come back to it. In fact, that's a professional practice/performance technique: work hard, step away, come back.

*Another pro practice technique is to practice away from your instrument. When you're having a particularly difficult time with a part or a passage - put the guitar down and do it in your head visualizing your hands on the guitar.

This post has been edited by klasaine: May 17 2017, 08:23 PM


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Todd Simpson
post May 17 2017, 08:42 PM
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Well done! BIg improvement smile.gif I vote for full on HEAD BANGING!!!


Todd

QUOTE (Rated Htr @ May 17 2017, 12:18 PM) *
Just to let you know, I recorded the first take yesterday than the second one was the first take I did today once I picked the guitar up laugh.gif

That's exactly how I thought. I still want to get everything right but doing the second take made me also realize that I can't be afraid to record something just because I can spot a mistake or that some muting isn't there. Making the second take just made me see what licks I have to work on better because that's when my head paused (made a mistake) because it didn't come naturally to my fingers.

So from my point of view, practicing it and than recording like the second take is a great way to see if you can truly play and be free from being overly focused on it smile.gif



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Kristofer Dahl
post May 18 2017, 08:41 AM
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Interesting thoughts!

As with anything, the 'shaking head' thing can be overdone. However I gave this advice in light of what we usually see in the REC takes: very focused students who are often super stiff in order not to miss a single note. And my belief is that for these students, loosening up a bit will definitely help with timing, finding the 'pocket' and recording fears.

This is pretty much what we saw when Rated improved his take overnight. Do other factors come into play? Yes of course. We all know two different takes recorded the same day - can sound completely different. For example most people tend to favor the very first take of a recording session ( I know I do). So perhaps Rated's REC submission was recorded at the end of the practice session whereas the second video was the first take of the day (after warmup).

But either way there are important lessons to be learned here. What this shows is that you can outperform yourself in a short period of time - byt using slightly unconventional methods.

And if it only requires you to shake your body a bit - then why not? And if it feels legit - I know I prefer watching a guitarist who is really digging into the music as opposed to a stiff one.


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Rated Htr
post May 18 2017, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ May 18 2017, 08:41 AM) *
Interesting thoughts!

As with anything, the 'shaking head' thing can be overdone. However I gave this advice in light of what we usually see in the REC takes: very focused students who are often super stiff in order not to miss a single note. And my belief is that for these students, loosening up a bit will definitely help with timing, finding the 'pocket' and recording fears.

This is pretty much what we saw when Rated improved his take overnight. Do other factors come into play? Yes of course. We all know two different takes recorded the same day - can sound completely different. For example most people tend to favor the very first take of a recording session ( I know I do). So perhaps Rated's REC submission was recorded at the end of the practice session whereas the second video was the first take of the day (after warmup).

But either way there are important lessons to be learned here. What this shows is that you can outperform yourself in a short period of time - byt using slightly unconventional methods.

And if it only requires you to shake your body a bit - then why not? And if it feels legit - I know I prefer watching a guitarist who is really digging into the music as opposed to a stiff one.


In response to that, for further clarification, it was exactly that. The first take was recorded after being practicing the lesson for 30 minutes and feeling good about recording a take. The second one was warm-up and than went for it. Like I mentioned before, normally, due to Gabriel's advice I'm recording everything to be in that situation where the recording becomes natural since I can tell I get more focused and more stiff once I hit the recording button, but this time I wasn't worry if the take had mistakes, bad muting or timing problems, which are the things I'm focusing on working for this lesson.

Today, I will be trying a mix of the two to see how it turns out but I do agree, I enjoyed recording it a lot more and had the chance to "feed" this discussion which in turn is providing me with excellent feedback of what I can do to achieve the balance that I also think I can get. smile.gif

I'd still recommend what Kris said because it seems to be the case that most of us for REC want things to be perfect and we forget about the enjoyable factor of playing our instrument and it does show on our playing. Regarding what Monica said about the instructors not shaking anything, I feel that that's because it's a lesson and since the videos are done to show us the playing as correctly as possible, the focused strategy works and they can still pull it off because they are pros smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 18 2017, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (Rated Htr @ May 18 2017, 10:31 AM) *
Today, I will be trying a mix of the two to see how it turns out


Great! This is how I do it as well - I constantly try new strategies - and even mix them to come up with the best recipe for the day!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 18 2017, 02:44 PM
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This is a very interesting discussion! I've been working with Rated for some months at the mentoring program and I could see the impressive transformation of his playing. We focused on expression techniques like dynamics, vibrato, bending, tone, and groove. Just give a look at the first vids shared there and you'll see his inspiring improvements.

Regarding this new take, I think that it's exactly what Rated playing is needing to move to a new level. At first it can be a bit less precise but it's much more expressive, and with practice it will be supreme. I think that increasing the energy to a higher level to then find the balance is very effective, and that our whole body has a big impact in our playing.

I prefer the new take because it transmits me more. I always prefer passion over perfection. However I know that Rated still has room to go for both passion and perfection. Keep going mate! smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 19 2017, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 18 2017, 03:44 PM) *
I prefer the new take because it transmits me more. I always prefer passion over perfection. However I know that Rated still has room to go for both passion and perfection. Keep going mate! smile.gif


Amen to that! smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post May 19 2017, 12:42 PM
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I generally think it's something that should come out naturally. If it doesn't, it will distract and harm the performance. Some people just "have it". Bu "it" I mean the ease of diggin whole body into the groove they play. I wouldn't force anyone to do so, If he/she feels it doesn't deliver any kind of pleasure smile.gif


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