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> 187 American Cities Pledge To Uphold Paris Accord
fkalich
post Jun 3 2017, 10:00 PM
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Including my own.

https:[email protected]/climate-m...ls-ba566e260097
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jstcrsn
post Jun 4 2017, 01:22 AM
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hey Lindsay , good to see you back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOOMyYde0c&t=512s

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Rammikin
post Jun 4 2017, 01:36 AM
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In his speech, President Trump cited an MIT study as evidence the Paris objectives would only have a "tiny" effect on temperature change. However, according to the very paper he cited, his numbers are wrong:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-clim...t-idUSKBN18S6L0

Maybe it was an innocent mistake and he just misunderstood. Who knew climate change could be so complicated?


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 4 2017, 07:02 AM
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"Alternative Facts" are people too smile.gif My new fave show on Comedy Central "The President Show" Priceless smile.gif







QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jun 3 2017, 08:36 PM) *
In his speech, President Trump cited an MIT study as evidence the Paris objectives would only have a "tiny" effect on temperature change. However, according to the very paper he cited, his numbers are wrong:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-clim...t-idUSKBN18S6L0

Maybe it was an innocent mistake and he just misunderstood. Who knew climate change could be so complicated?



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Mertay
post Jun 4 2017, 03:28 PM
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USA had control over oil and aside a crisis in the (end of?) 70's, only had to pump-up a limited amount of their own oil. We're all aware of the advantage in economic growth this had. But its time to worry for friends in USA if they want to keep that advantage for their children. For wind and solar power, europe is way ahead.

Germany is very smart about this; if I remember correct they're number 1 on coal mining but only to sell them to other countrys for electricity. With that money they're investing on wind and solar power, then also sell these to countrys who burn coal for electricity to drop emmisions (sort of what USA is doing with oil wink.gif ). So end result although they pay for paris agreement, its nothing to them cause they're leading the tech. and production.

So the oil richness of USA will change to Germany of solar+wind in the near future. Sorry but you guys really f.'d-up while discussing if climate change is real etc. , the world moved on and USA is losing its industrial advantage on energy everyday.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jun 4 2017, 03:29 PM


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klasaine
post Jun 4 2017, 03:56 PM
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As bad as it looks as a 'face to put forward' for the US, we're not going to invest any more than we have been in current times in fossil fuels. Green is the way to go. Even Exxon thinks so. California, Oregon, Washington state, etc. are not going to alter their commitment to carbon draw down.
The Paris Accords don't go into effect until 2020. The next presidential election takes place in November of 2020. QED.


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Mertay
post Jun 4 2017, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 4 2017, 02:56 PM) *
As bad as it looks as a 'face to put forward' for the US, we're not going to invest any more than we have been in current times in fossil fuels. Green is the way to go. Even Exxon thinks so. California, Oregon, Washington state, etc. are not going to alter their commitment to carbon draw down.
The Paris Accords don't go into effect until 2020. The next presidential election takes place in November of 2020. QED.


I very hope so!

Aside that, before China became todays China, all polluting machinary and old tech. was bought from USA. This is a great example of how economically pollution can be expensive, some people-companys got rich by selling China old tech. and today the cost of that profit is hitting hard. Why complain about 2 billion dolars? few USA corp.s already made that money from China years ago...

Such expense doesn't damage corporations but only tax payers and its ironic the tax payers are defending such corporations politics. Its doesn't have to be complicated to understand, (there is a saying, not sure if Turkish but roughly translates) a lion doesn't piss on his own bed...


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 4 2017, 05:06 PM
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BINGO!! While EXXON MOBILE was funding "Climate Deniers", Europe shot way ahead in terms of energy independence and we are way behind. Lame!!!!!!

Our industrial advantage is spent IMHO, the only leverage we have remaining is in Silicon Valley and even that is starting to drift to india and china as many of our top graduates are now returning to their home countries to start their own "Start ups". Meanwhile, talk of "Clean Coal" (there is no such thing) abounds, as if belching more carbon in to the sky is somehow an answer. Egad. sad.gif

We are at an inflection point in our history IMHO. If we refocus on renewable energy and energy independence, we may have a chance. Our current top export is Military Hardware. Make no mistake that all the tanks/guns we sell are little more than jobs programs. Our own Military keeps turning tanks away so hundreds are sitting in the mid west waiting for a buyer.


QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 4 2017, 10:28 AM) *
USA had control over oil and aside a crisis in the (end of?) 70's, only had to pump-up a limited amount of their own oil. We're all aware of the advantage in economic growth this had. But its time to worry for friends in USA if they want to keep that advantage for their children. For wind and solar power, europe is way ahead.

Germany is very smart about this; if I remember correct they're number 1 on coal mining but only to sell them to other countrys for electricity. With that money they're investing on wind and solar power, then also sell these to countrys who burn coal for electricity to drop emmisions (sort of what USA is doing with oil wink.gif ). So end result although they pay for paris agreement, its nothing to them cause they're leading the tech. and production.

So the oil richness of USA will change to Germany of solar+wind in the near future. Sorry but you guys really f.'d-up while discussing if climate change is real etc. , the world moved on and USA is losing its industrial advantage on energy everyday.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 4 2017, 05:09 PM


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yoncopin
post Jun 4 2017, 05:59 PM
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There is literally no better deal than this, it was non-binding. Meaning, if the USA did absolutely nothing, the penalties were exactly zero. It was basically just a good faith agreement with the rest of the world. The USA gained the greatest benefit in growing our economy via the use of fossil fuels and we're the only ones to now leave the agreement. Withdrawal is just a political stunt, but will do nothing to affect the states decisions, or the economic necessity of striving for cleaner energy.


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AK Rich
post Jun 4 2017, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 4 2017, 08:06 AM) *
Our current top export is Military Hardware. Make no mistake that all the tanks/guns we sell are little more than jobs programs. Our own Military keeps turning tanks away so hundreds are sitting in the mid west waiting for a buyer.

Please rolleyes.gif
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/usa/#Exports
http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top_us_exports.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-exp...us-state-2015-5
http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-sta...top-10-exports/

The attack on free market capitalism, the redistribution of the United States wealth, and quest for absolute power and control has been slowed for the time being.
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 4 2017, 06:34 PM
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Please? Your welcome smile.gif But I should have said "one of our Fastest Growing" (still a jobs program) here is a grab from one of your own sources. The second link. I love when the response contains handy info! smile.gif
Attached Image

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jun 4 2017, 01:00 PM) *
Please rolleyes.gif
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/usa/#Exports
http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top_us_exports.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-exp...us-state-2015-5
http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-sta...top-10-exports/

The attack on free market capitalism, the redistribution of the United States wealth, and quest for absolute power and control has been slowed for the time being.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 4 2017, 07:08 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 4 2017, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Jun 4 2017, 05:59 PM) *
There is literally no better deal than this, it was non-binding. Meaning, if the USA did absolutely nothing, the penalties were exactly zero. It was basically just a good faith agreement with the rest of the world. The USA gained the greatest benefit in growing our economy via the use of fossil fuels and we're the only ones to now leave the agreement. Withdrawal is just a political stunt, but will do nothing to affect the states decisions, or the economic necessity of striving for cleaner energy.

We do want green energy , but not at the cost of US jobs . This is an interview with a founding member/ scientists of Greenpeace offering a different evidence based opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDK1aCqqZkQ&t=1540s


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yoncopin
post Jun 4 2017, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 4 2017, 02:48 PM) *
We do want green energy , but not at the cost of US jobs .


Nothing to do with the Paris Climate Agreement would have implicitly cost jobs. It was just a set of carbon reduction goals for each nation to shoot for, and completely up to them how to do it, if at all. Withdrawal changes nothing, except to go back on our word in the eyes of the world and to fulfill a hollow campaign promise to the president's supporters.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 4 2017, 02:48 PM) *
This is an interview with a founding member/ scientists of Greenpeace offering a different evidence based opinion


There's exactly zero chance I'm watching a 45 minute clickbait video where a shock jockey explains science.

This post has been edited by yoncopin: Jun 4 2017, 08:03 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 4 2017, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Jun 4 2017, 08:02 PM) *
Nothing to do with the Paris Climate Agreement would have implicitly cost jobs. It was just a set of carbon reduction goals for each nation to shoot for, and completely up to them how to do it, if at all. Withdrawal changes nothing, except to go back on our word in the eyes of the world and to fulfill a hollow campaign promise to the president's supporters.



There's exactly zero chance I'm watching a 45 minute clickbait video where a shock jockey explains science.

I guess that tells me how open for discussion you are . The Scientist was founding scientist for " Green peace " , does that not warrant maybe a short listen . start at 8:50 , and give it 3 minutes ?
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 4 2017, 10:19 PM
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Having read much of the work in the field, the only "Climate Deniers" remaining are folks funded by EXXON MOBILE and other such interests. The science was settled long ago by the likes of NASA. There is a difference between being "open" to new information, and being suckered in to climate denial. It's not a scam, it's not an excuse to raise taxes, it's the natural result of folks like us having things like cars, and factories having carbon emissions. At this point, climate denial is the "Flat Earth" of scientific endeavor. It's only held on to by a very fringe minority for political, not scientific reasons. Let's be honest about it at least.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 4 2017, 05:01 PM) *
I guess that tells me how open for discussion you are . The Scientist was founding scientist for " Green peace " , does that not warrant maybe a short listen . start at 8:50 , and give it 3 minutes ?


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jstcrsn
post Jun 4 2017, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 4 2017, 10:19 PM) *
Having read much of the work in the field, the only "Climate Deniers" remaining are folks funded by EXXON MOBILE and other such interests. The science was settled long ago by the likes of NASA. There is a difference between being "open" to new information, and being suckered in to climate denial. It's not a scam, it's not an excuse to raise taxes, it's the natural result of folks like us having things like cars, and factories having carbon emissions. At this point, climate denial is the "Flat Earth" of scientific endeavor. It's only held on to by a very fringe minority for political, not scientific reasons. Let's be honest about it at least.

I can tell you have answered something you have not even given the time of day to. He admits there is warming , he just does not succumb to the sky is falling and has some very documented info concerning such . I ask you to start at the same time and give it a couple of minutes , rather than falsely and blindly accusing this of some thing it is not
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yoncopin
post Jun 4 2017, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 4 2017, 05:01 PM) *
I guess that tells me how open for discussion you are . The Scientist was founding scientist for " Green peace " , does that not warrant maybe a short listen . start at 8:50 , and give it 3 minutes ?


I'm very open to discussion, but credibility is key. I watched your three minutes and was wholly unconvinced in the premise presented. It is a common counter-argument that we are always in heating/cooling cycles and therefore man plays no part, but that is only a half truth. It's true that the earth's climate does cycle over time, but since 1950 (coinciding with mankind's rising use of fossil fuels) the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere risen sharply.


Secondly, the scientific consensus on climate change being man-made is anywhere from 95-99% That's about as close to certainty as a scientific conclusion gets. Youtubers interviewing the 1% of PhDs that disagree and calling it a scam doesn't meet the rigors of peer reviewed science by a long shot. There will always be dissenters, but that doesn't make them right.

A humourous take on CO2 levels


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Rammikin
post Jun 4 2017, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Jun 4 2017, 07:02 PM) *
There's exactly zero chance I'm watching a 45 minute clickbait video where a shock jockey explains science.


But, as you can tell from the video title, he is loud. Doesn't that make his opinion correct?







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Mertay
post Jun 4 2017, 11:44 PM
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Thats the argument I comment about previously biggrin.gif

Also if I didn't miss, when giving his reasons to deny the agreement did you guys notice Trump didn't say or even imply the climate change is not real? he carryed the argument to expence not science, smell like tactical retreat...

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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 4 2017, 11:48 PM
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Just a friendly reminder that embeded videos never take these discussion to a good place, so please refrain from them.

Your own analysis of the situation is what we want to hear.


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