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jstcrsn
post Jun 9 2017, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 8 2017, 06:12 AM) *
*P.S. The site you are using is a CLIMATE DENIAL web site. You might want to pick a reference source that is a pinch less biased toward climate denial and more based on science. sad.gif

Wait, you ask me for papers denying it and then chastise me for using a denial website , huh

Then please let me hold you to the same standard you ask of me . You can not use climate warming science from a climate warming apologist ?It's just to darn biased

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jun 9 2017, 06:15 PM
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jstcrsn
post Jun 9 2017, 10:20 PM
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yoncopin
post Jun 10 2017, 12:50 AM
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This post has been edited by yoncopin: Jun 10 2017, 01:17 AM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 11 2017, 01:32 PM
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before you tell me co2 levels are to high , you have to give me your peer reviewed papers stating what the perfect levels are ?

Before you tell me temperatures are too warm , you have to give me your peer reviewed papers stating what the earth"s perfect average temperature needs to be ?

I feel these are fair questions in light of you only accepting reviewed papers from me ,
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 11 2017, 03:39 PM
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Before we sink back in to the back and forth, did you see my question to you? I posted it twice. Let me try a third time.

What attracts you to the idea of climate denial personally? Why are you drawn towards the information (scant though it is) that supports this view, instead of the flood of info that seems to support the prevailing view? If we can get to the core of why folks want to believe this, I think we can make much more progress than just going back and forth as we have been doing.

After the information that has been shared thus far, I honestly think could share information til blue in the face and it would simply have no impact. I've seen info shared so far (nasa included) that you just rejected out of hand so it seems pretty obvious there is no info that you would accept as long as it goes against climate denial. So again, I really want to know what is motivating you personally here as it may illuminate why certain folks, most of whom are right leaning for some reason, simply reject the bulk of scientific work on this subject.

Also, as far as vids. Kris has a great point in that they mostly just distract. Here is a good example. "proof" that the earth is flat. smile.gif This is a view held by many Christian Fundamentalists. Many of whom are also climate deniers for some reason. The video even quotes scripture in the end, as part of the "proof" of course smile.gif




Todd

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 11 2017, 08:32 AM) *
before you tell me co2 levels are to high , you have to give me your peer reviewed papers stating what the perfect levels are ?

Before you tell me temperatures are too warm , you have to give me your peer reviewed papers stating what the earth"s perfect average temperature needs to be ?

I feel these are fair questions in light of you only accepting reviewed papers from me ,


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 11 2017, 04:24 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 11 2017, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 11 2017, 03:39 PM) *
Before we sink back in to the back and forth, did you see my question to you? I posted it twice. Let me try a third time.

What attracts you to the idea of climate denial personally? Why are you drawn towards the information (scant though it is) that supports this view, instead of the flood of info that seems to support the prevailing view? If we can get to the core of why folks want to believe this, I think we can make much more progress than just going back and forth as we have been doing.

After the information that has been shared thus far, I honestly think could share information til blue in the face and it would simply have no impact. I've seen info shared so far (nasa included) that you just rejected out of hand so it seems pretty obvious there is no info that you would accept as long as it goes against climate denial. So again, I really want to know what is motivating you personally here as it may illuminate why certain folks, most of whom are right leaning for some reason, simply reject the bulk of scientific work on this subject.

Also, as far as vids. Kris has a great point in that they mostly just distract. Here is a good example. "proof" that the earth is flat. smile.gif This is a view held by many Christian Fundamentalists. Many of whom are also climate deniers for some reason. The video even quotes scripture in the end, as part of the "proof" of course smile.gif




Todd

I don't deny climate .. Your turn , what are the perfect temperatures ?
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 12 2017, 04:35 AM
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Allow me to rephrase. What lead you to be on the side of the argument that you are currently on? What attracted you to support your current position. I don't know how else to ask this question, but I"ll keep trying until you can give me answer.

As to your question, I have no idea what "perfect temperatures" means. Do you mean perfect for me? I like it cold. Perfect for the planet? I don't think there is such thing. I Hope that answers your question. Try giving mine a go? I really want to understand what attracts people to the other side of this particular coin.

I can tell you why I'm on the side I'm on. Mostly trusting the bulk of the data from sources like NASA. Some folks think the moon landing was "fake" an don't trust nasa. I'm not one of those people. I find nasa's data to be largely in line with scientific thought. So I'm just on the side of 97 percent of scientists. I'm trying to find out what attracts people to the other 3%, people like you for example.

Todd

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 11 2017, 05:11 PM) *
I don't deny climate .. Your turn , what are the perfect temperatures ?



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jstcrsn
post Jun 13 2017, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 12 2017, 04:35 AM) *
Allow me to rephrase. What lead you to be on the side of the argument that you are currently on? What attracted you to support your current position. I don't know how else to ask this question, but I"ll keep trying until you can give me answer.

As to your question, I have no idea what "perfect temperatures" means. Do you mean perfect for me? I like it cold. Perfect for the planet? I don't think there is such thing. I Hope that answers your question. Try giving mine a go? I really want to understand what attracts people to the other side of this particular coin.

I can tell you why I'm on the side I'm on. Mostly trusting the bulk of the data from sources like NASA. Some folks think the moon landing was "fake" an don't trust nasa. I'm not one of those people. I find nasa's data to be largely in line with scientific thought. So I'm just on the side of 97 percent of scientists. I'm trying to find out what attracts people to the other 3%, people like you for example.

Todd
first I don't have the time or energy to get my reasons on 1 post , so it might take a few attempts

I am against Chiken Littles like Al Gore , He said many times " in ten years , we won't have ice at the caps " , that was ten years ago , so I hope even you can agree that kind of alarm ism is not helpful ? .

The way in which the " Author " who compiled the 97% percent consensus was flawed big time ! If you want me to source it's inconsistencies , I will next time.
P.S. no scientists signed these , the guy compiling the list assumed

The ICCC has met Annually since 2003 it has many Scientists that disagree , on many levels , from some believing Co2 levels are not dangerous as it has been 4000 parts per million before and is currently around 250, those that don"t think any warming has happened ( to the climate , not weather ) and many of these scientists are named in the 97 consensus .
The ICCC has compiled a list of over 30,000 scientists ( 9000 of which are PHD's ) that have signed it specifically saying the dangers are small , minimal or none .,
penned by
Frederick Seitz
President of sciences U.S.A.
President Emeritus , Rockefeller University
http://www.petitionproject.org/seitz_letter.php


You can say what you want about videos , people are smart enough to make up their own minds
but here is the ICCC conference talking about it


I know I have not told you were I stand , but like I said it might take some , but her is a little back round of information .
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 13 2017, 02:13 AM
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It seems like it's going to be a real challenge for you to just give me a simple answer here. I suspect it's because you are not quite sure why you believe what you believe. I've run in to that quite a bit with folks who sit on your side of this particular fence. It's almost an "article of faith" for "The right". So yeah, think about it, and ask yourself the same thing I"m asking you. Why do you believe what you believe and what attracted you to the idea in the first place?

It seems a simple question. But I"ve found it not to be for some reason, for many folks. It needn't be long. My answer was a few sentences. So no need to go overboard, just "why".

Todd

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 12 2017, 08:33 PM) *
first I don't have the time or energy to get my reasons on 1 post , so it might take a few attempts

I am against Chiken Littles like Al Gore , He said many times " in ten years , we won't have ice at the caps " , that was ten years ago , so I hope even you can agree that kind of alarm ism is not helpful ? .

The way in which the " Author " who compiled the 97% percent consensus was flawed big time ! If you want me to source it's inconsistencies , I will next time.
P.S. no scientists signed these , the guy compiling the list assumed

The ICCC has met Annually since 2003 it has many Scientists that disagree , on many levels , from some believing Co2 levels are not dangerous as it has been 4000 parts per million before and is currently around 250, those that don"t think any warming has happened ( to the climate , not weather ) and many of these scientists are named in the 97 consensus .
The ICCC has compiled a list of over 30,000 scientists ( 9000 of which are PHD's ) that have signed it specifically saying the dangers are small , minimal or none .,
penned by
Frederick Seitz
President of sciences U.S.A.
President Emeritus , Rockefeller University
http://www.petitionproject.org/seitz_letter.php


You can say what you want about videos , people are smart enough to make up their own minds
but here is the ICCC conference talking about it


I know I have not told you were I stand , but like I said it might take some , but her is a little back round of information .


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Rammikin
post Jun 13 2017, 03:19 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 13 2017, 01:13 AM) *
QUOTE

The ICCC has compiled a list of over 30,000 scientists ( 9000 of which are PHD's ) that have signed it specifically saying the dangers are small , minimal or none .,


Hoax. This petition, which was most definitely not compiled by the ICCC, was circulated 20 years ago and failed to verify credentials of signatories. The result was: very few legit climate scientists are among the signatories. You will however, find the names of Star Wars characters and members of the Spice Girls on the list of people who signed it.



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jstcrsn
post Jun 13 2017, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jun 13 2017, 03:19 AM) *
Hoax. This petition, which was most definitely not compiled by the ICCC, was circulated 20 years ago and failed to verify credentials of signatories. The result was: very few legit climate scientists are among the signatories. You will however, find the names of Star Wars characters and members of the Spice Girls on the list of people who signed it.

so find me the names and I will do the leg work to find if they are real , fair enough

also the ICCC still discusses the list , are they a hoax

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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 13 2017, 07:54 AM
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I haven't felt any need to chime in here, nowadays there is pretty much world wide consensus on this topic among scientists.

However in reference to this...

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 5 2017, 12:48 AM) *
Just a friendly reminder that embeded videos never take these discussion to a good place, so please refrain from them.

Your own analysis of the situation is what we want to hear.


...I will close this topic. It is unfortunately not the first time those weird content emedded videos ruin our discussions :/


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