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> Low Tuning An Sg
bleez
post Jul 15 2017, 04:49 PM
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I was thinking about tuning my SG to C standard / drop A. Would this be do-able?
I guess Id need a new or modified nut and for strings, maybe 12-56?

Not sure what stuff to look out for or potential problems with doing this, any advice would be appreciated.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 17 2017, 04:32 PM
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Hi Bleez, yeah, you need that string gauge for sure. About the nut, you could make a quick check with the current one before modifying it or switching by a new one suitable for that string thickness.


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bleez
post Jul 17 2017, 08:11 PM
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cool, I'll probably get Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky.
Probably will need new tuners, I think the ones on it are the originals. Its a 1990 SG, the tuners have probably seen better days.
might get locking tuners.


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Mertay
post Jul 17 2017, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 17 2017, 07:11 PM) *
cool, I'll probably get Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky.
Probably will need new tuners, I think the ones on it are the originals. Its a 1990 SG, the tuners have probably seen better days.
might get locking tuners.


My only worry is about the pickups, newer designed PU's for low tuning sound very different from Paf style ones. Keep in mind you might need an extra eq if you bump into any muddyness, its hard to guess before trying but just mentioning just in case.


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bleez
post Jul 17 2017, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 17 2017, 09:23 PM) *
My only worry is about the pickups, newer designed PU's for low tuning sound very different from Paf style ones. Keep in mind you might need an extra eq if you bump into any muddyness, its hard to guess before trying but just mentioning just in case.

didnt think of that, cheers dude. I'll keep that in mind.
Im not 100% on what the PU are in the SG. Not stock, I think they are some type of Tom Anderson.


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Darius Wave
post Jul 18 2017, 08:57 AM
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Mertay is right. Things need to be balanced. Modern constructions for low tuning are designed to compensate the "muddyness" caused buy string thickness and pitch itself. SG is a quite warm and low freq expose instrument. With such a low tuning it may need at least a TS kind of distortion in front of the amp. And the tone set pretty high on that device. I remember I had problems to find matched strings gauge for 24 3/4" measure. My best choice was 13-72 for Standard A tuning. 12-56 were ok but not lover than Standard C#. I have tried 12-60 for Standard B but funny thing was that one manufacturer makes 12-60 more floppy than other has his 12-56...It's a road through hell but strings are not that expensive to make experiments and waste a few sets smile.gif


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bleez
post Jul 18 2017, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 18 2017, 08:57 AM) *
Mertay is right. Things need to be balanced. Modern constructions for low tuning are designed to compensate the "muddyness" caused buy string thickness and pitch itself. SG is a quite warm and low freq expose instrument. With such a low tuning it may need at least a TS kind of distortion in front of the amp. And the tone set pretty high on that device. I remember I had problems to find matched strings gauge for 24 3/4" measure. My best choice was 13-72 for Standard A tuning. 12-56 were ok but not lover than Standard C#. I have tried 12-60 for Standard B but funny thing was that one manufacturer makes 12-60 more floppy than other has his 12-56...It's a road through hell but strings are not that expensive to make experiments and waste a few sets smile.gif


thanks Darius. Im going to replace the tuners as well, should I be getting a specific type of tuner for this or will regular SG type ones be okay?


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Sensible Jones
post Jul 18 2017, 02:55 PM
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As mentioned the Nut will need filing out to suit that string gauge. If memory serves your SG has the Kluson tuners on it doesn't it?
Like these:-

If you intend to install Locking Tuners then the holes will need drilling out to accommodate the new ones. (From an 8mm hole to a 10mm hole)
smile.gif


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bleez
post Jul 18 2017, 04:43 PM
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way to inconvenience every forum on the internet, photobucket! cool.gif

I have the gibson deluxe on it -


Just as well you mentioned that smile.gif dont think I want holes drilled, any suggestions on some decent tuners? If possible I'd like to keep the olive-ish colour of the peg but its not essential.



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Sensible Jones
post Jul 19 2017, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 18 2017, 04:43 PM) *
way to inconvenience every forum on the internet, photobucket! cool.gif

I have the gibson deluxe on it -


Just as well you mentioned that smile.gif dont think I want holes drilled, any suggestions on some decent tuners? If possible I'd like to keep the olive-ish colour of the peg but its not essential.

Exactly!!! It was a pic of an SG Headstock with those exact tuners on it!
To keep your Pearloid Tuner Buttons and with no drilling I'd suggest a set of THESE, even the 2 little screw holes should line up exactly!


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bleez
post Jul 20 2017, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Jul 19 2017, 05:52 PM) *
Exactly!!! It was a pic of an SG Headstock with those exact tuners on it!
To keep your Pearloid Tuner Buttons and with no drilling I'd suggest a set of THESE, even the 2 little screw holes should line up exactly!


thanks dude, they look perfect. smile.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Jul 24 2017, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 20 2017, 03:21 PM) *
thanks dude, they look perfect. smile.gif

No worries mate!
smile.gif


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AK Rich
post Jul 24 2017, 06:31 PM
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Wouldn't it be nice if we could swap out a nut as easy as changing strings in a situation like this? Sometimes we change our minds like the weather changes.
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bleez
post Jul 25 2017, 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jul 24 2017, 06:31 PM) *
Wouldn't it be nice if we could swap out a nut as easy as changing strings in a situation like this? Sometimes we change our minds like the weather changes.

totally smile.gif Its a lot of stuff to do just to experiment with a low tuning.

Well I got the guitar back. Not really sure if anything was actually done other than the strings going on. I get the impression the nut wasnt filed. maybe it didnt need it and was told the tuners were fine. . I was also getting the coil split switch fixed as it had stopped 'splitting', the whole process took about 20 mins.
Anyway, there was no way it was holding its tuning at drop A. especially the bottom few strings. It was all over the place. I could get it 'close' but a few minutes of playing and it was gone. Also as you guys mentioned, the pickups couldnt handle it either.
I spent most of the afternoon fighting with the tuning but it didnt improve so I tuned it up to D ( and drop C ). Much more stable tuning wise and the pick ups were a lot better as well, maybe not 'awesome' cool.gif but good enough to play around with.
If the nut hasnt been cut then I might restring with beefy slinkys and keep the drop C tuning. Its still kinda low and mean sounding. If I get on okay with it then I dont mind investing in a more brutal pickup.
My goal with this was really just for inspiration. Hopefully to start writing riffs and maybe a song and just play some different stuff in general.
I like the tuning so far its pretty cool, going to run with it for now smile.gif

I came up with a couple of riffs as I was playing around last night so its definatley got me inspired a bit.
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Mertay
post Jul 25 2017, 10:40 AM
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Tuning instability in such cases are usually cause the string does not slide well on the nut surface. You can try lubricants or some even say using an ordinary pencil (just a bit or darkening the nut slot) can also work. I'd guess it will improve a little on the current settings but not much if you lower it again.

The demo you recorded does sound promising, its just a matter of fx experimenting to get what you like. By the way if you still feel you need lower tuning maybe rather than further modifying a cheap 7 string might work better for you. The 7 string jackson js wasn't bad at all at the time I demo'd one in a store (they even have an 8 string now).


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bleez
post Jul 25 2017, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 25 2017, 10:40 AM) *
Tuning instability in such cases are usually cause the string does not slide well on the nut surface. You can try lubricants or some even say using an ordinary pencil (just a bit or darkening the nut slot) can also work. I'd guess it will improve a little on the current settings but not much if you lower it again.

The demo you recorded does sound promising, its just a matter of fx experimenting to get what you like. By the way if you still feel you need lower tuning maybe rather than further modifying a cheap 7 string might work better for you. The 7 string jackson js wasn't bad at all at the time I demo'd one in a store (they even have an 8 string now).


can you tune a 7 string to drop A and play along with a 6 string tuned to drop A..... that may be a ridiculous question but .... huh.gif

QUOTE
Tuning instability in such cases are usually cause the string does not slide well on the nut surface

maybe would suggest that the nut needed cut but wasnt ?

This post has been edited by bleez: Jul 25 2017, 12:03 PM


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Mertay
post Jul 25 2017, 12:15 PM
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For drop A I'd search the web or think of the idea of an 8 string, not my department to be honest but just feel such options might also cover musical needs too depending on your goal.

As for the nut, its possible maybe the luthier went too safe incase the string would be too loose on the nut. Just widening the nut slote for 1 string is a relativly quick process, if you feel like taking the guitar to the luthier again be next to him while he's working and test it before leaving. You can imagine notmany customers bring an SG to be setuped for down tuning, there may have been a simple miscommuncation.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 25 2017, 12:17 PM


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bleez
post Jul 25 2017, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 25 2017, 12:15 PM) *
You can imagine notmany customers bring an SG to be setuped for down tuning,

ohmy.gif That cant be true ..... how is the average person suppose to summon demons if they dont have their SG tuned down to drop A cool.gif

I should probably get a baritone but as usual all the ones I like are expensive dry.gif
Im going to stick at this tuning for a bit, I might try a set of 11s and if the nut has been cut I can just put 12s back on. I'll also try that pencil graphite on the nut when I restring, that's a good idea, cheers.
I'll see how stable it is after that and take it from there smile.gif

*It'll probably be great and I'll be looking at ridiculous pickups to throw more money at!



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AK Rich
post Jul 25 2017, 05:48 PM
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Strings sticking in the nut will give tuning issues for sure but could it also be that the new strings were not given a proper stretch after being put on the guitar? Grab them strings and give them a real good stretch and then retune and see what happens.
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Sensible Jones
post Jul 25 2017, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 25 2017, 05:11 PM) *
I'll also try that pencil graphite on the nut when I restring, that's a good idea, cheers.
I'll see how stable it is after that and take it from there smile.gif

Heartily recommend this course of action!!!
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