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> Has Amp Modelling Evolved?
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 20 2017, 02:19 PM
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Has Amp Modelling Evolved? What do you think? biggrin.gif




The first comment at youtube: "Use the kemper to profile the pod"

Best comment ever. laugh.gif


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Rammikin
post Jul 20 2017, 03:42 PM
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I had a Pod. It was great. Countless awesome albums were recorded using a Pod. I remember seeing acts like KingsX and John Petrucci playing on stage through a Pod that sounded fantastic. Nothing will ever change that. But, it's not nearly as authentic sounding as today's modelers. Not only that, the Pod was surpassed many years ago by the Johnson J-Station. The difference is night and day.

Here's the problem I have: it's fun to do these "shootout" videos for youtube, but they're useless for determining which modeler you prefer. All you're doing is judging which one is tweaked more to your liking.

The point about how easy it is to use a Pod is a good one. That's where today's modelers fail. That's why only a relatively small number of guitarists use them. They're still too complicated.



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Mertay
post Jul 20 2017, 04:07 PM
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When looked at a price point (I didn't do any math or websearch but...) they're extremely bad compared to where computers are these days.

The POD at the time wasn't super expensive but the Kemper, Axe-fx is. Atomic and Helix again slide to the expensive side of todays processors.

Tested a boss gt-1 recently and shared opinions here, it sure does have advantages to something like a pod in use but tone-wise nothing night and day.

I still have and use a digitech rp12 which is probably 1-2 years even older than that, it doesn't have amp modeling (does have cab. sim.) but I managed to make a decent sounding clean amp out of it. Believe it or not the drive fx's in it are digitally controlled analog...


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 21 2017, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jul 20 2017, 11:42 AM) *
I had a Pod. It was great. Countless awesome albums were recorded using a Pod. I remember seeing acts like KingsX and John Petrucci playing on stage through a Pod that sounded fantastic. Nothing will ever change that. But, it's not nearly as authentic sounding as today's modelers. Not only that, the Pod was surpassed many years ago by the Johnson J-Station. The difference is night and day.

Here's the problem I have: it's fun to do these "shootout" videos for youtube, but they're useless for determining which modeler you prefer. All you're doing is judging which one is tweaked more to your liking.

The point about how easy it is to use a Pod is a good one. That's where today's modelers fail. That's why only a relatively small number of guitarists use them. They're still too complicated.



Interesting! I'm really curious to hear any album that was recorded only with Pod. Is there any well known?



I've googled that J-station which I didn't know. It seems that the guy haven't continued in the business and Digitech took his work.


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Rammikin
post Jul 21 2017, 10:05 PM
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Everybody from Fredrik Thorendal to Will Ray recorded with a Pod during the Pod's heyday in the early 2000's.

Digitech used the technology from the J-Station in their Genesis line. The J-Station was much better for a lower price than the Pod, but by time it came out, Line6 had completely locked up the market for amp modelers. It shows how sometimes it's better to be first than it is to be best smile.gif.

In any case, the fact remains the Pod was revolutionary and represents a pivotal point in the history of guitar technology. Next year will be the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the first Pod.





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bleez
post Jul 21 2017, 11:57 PM
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I read on a few sites that Fear Factory used a POD Pro for their Digimortal album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2OMQx5HsJA


dunno how similar the Pod Pro is to a regular Pod tbh.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 22 2017, 03:50 AM
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Relatively small amount of guitarists use modelers? I gotta push back on that. Every guitar player I listen to currently, and there are just tons of them, ALL use modelers primarily AXE FX and secondarily KEMPER. They are so common that I'm almost shocked when I see a touring player using an actual amp. I just never see it from any of the players bands I follow. Maybe in country/blues, folks lug around real amps, but certainly not in prog/metal/death metal/etc.

They have come so far that the difference is just negligible. Especially when heard in a mix or a live band. Could you tell the difference with golden ears if you just A/B the real and model? Maybe. In a mix? Live? No. It's just pointless imho for touring musicians to lug tube gear which is why they just don't do it anymore. The costs are too high. It's way easier to profile your fave amps using a kemper and just bring the kemper. Ask the guys from Arch Enemy, or Devin Townsend, or Wintersun, or any number of bands. In fact, petrucci is the only guy I can think of off hand, besides maybe lamb of God that insist on toting Mesa boogies with them. Most folks, Periphery, Tosin Abasi, etc. Have just realized that lugging amps is pointless and expensive.

God knows I would never lug one to a gig again. Just over it. I'd take my 11Rack and with my tube preamp in the loop and run to the house direct. Simple, light, done smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jul 20 2017, 10:42 AM) *
I had a Pod. It was great. Countless awesome albums were recorded using a Pod. I remember seeing acts like KingsX and John Petrucci playing on stage through a Pod that sounded fantastic. Nothing will ever change that. But, it's not nearly as authentic sounding as today's modelers. Not only that, the Pod was surpassed many years ago by the Johnson J-Station. The difference is night and day.

Here's the problem I have: it's fun to do these "shootout" videos for youtube, but they're useless for determining which modeler you prefer. All you're doing is judging which one is tweaked more to your liking.

The point about how easy it is to use a Pod is a good one. That's where today's modelers fail. That's why only a relatively small number of guitarists use them. They're still too complicated.



On this one I'm with ya smile.gif The J Station became the Genesis line which later became the much loved GNX line which was based on the same technology. I still have my GNX4 and it still gives amazing tones. I've owned the Genesis, the GNX2,3 and 4. IMHO they crapped out just after the GNX line and all their multi pedals started to sound a bit crap. Just could not get the same amount of gain/crunch out of them once they changed chips and modeling tech. It was cheaper for them, but it ruined the quality IMHO. I'm sure some folks love the later ones, i hated all of them. sad.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jul 21 2017, 05:05 PM) *
Everybody from Fredrik Thorendal to Will Ray recorded with a Pod during the Pod's heyday in the early 2000's.

Digitech used the technology from the J-Station in their Genesis line. The J-Station was much better for a lower price than the Pod, but by time it came out, Line6 had completely locked up the market for amp modelers. It shows how sometimes it's better to be first than it is to be best smile.gif.

In any case, the fact remains the Pod was revolutionary and represents a pivotal point in the history of guitar technology. Next year will be the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the first Pod.



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Rammikin
post Jul 22 2017, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 22 2017, 02:50 AM) *
Relatively small amount of guitarists use modelers?


Yes. I'm looking at retail sales figures, and amps still outsell modelers by a considerable margin. FractalAudio and Kemper are hot topics on internet forums and widely used by top acts, so it's easy to forget they are small volume items in the musical instrument industry. There is obviously a trend underway that will likely eventually reverse that.

But, that's missing the point. I was commenting on the observation in the video about how difficult some modelers are to use.

This post has been edited by Rammikin: Jul 22 2017, 03:51 PM


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HaveGuitar
post Jul 22 2017, 05:41 PM
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It has evolved tremendously... I have tried pretty much everything since digital modelers started apperaring, and I have enjoyed most of the units to certain degree. Zoom's little device that could be attached to the strap ... don't remember it's name now, but it had pitch shift and loads of FX's and could be lined directly to record. V-amp, Line 6 various pod's etc. And now the Kemper that is the first unit that really impressed me enough to keep it. It's the first unit that actually can give me whatever I wan't and it sounds like what I want as well, not just close enough.

With that said... still love the feeling of playing through a real tube amp even if I don't do it that often anymore. Every now and then I come across a Kemper profile that gives me gas! Gotta get a Black Jack amp! Gotta get a Friedman! smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 22 2017, 09:36 PM
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I see what you mean on total sales. About modelers being difficult, I think it may be generational. I use a software interface to control my modeler and having grown up with computers it's as easy as sending an email. Some modelers don't have a software interface which I still can hardly believe and find a bit daft, but for any modeler with a software interface, I"ve never had any difficulty at all with them. The line 6 modelers will let you use your ipad! or a software control. I guess it's down to personal taste but I"ve never found my software interface to be anything but easy and elegant. A few clicks and bam, great tone.

Same is true for pure software modelers like TH2 which I've been using for years. If you understand how to build a signal chain in real life, it's just drag and drop.
I can't imagine finding it difficult, but again, I've been using software since a very young age way before I ever touched a real preamp. I have only ever owned one amp head. Waaay back when

smile.gif


QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jul 22 2017, 01:07 AM) *
Yes. I'm looking at retail sales figures, and amps still outsell modelers by a considerable margin. FractalAudio and Kemper are hot topics on internet forums and widely used by top acts, so it's easy to forget they are small volume items in the musical instrument industry. There is obviously a trend underway that will likely eventually reverse that.

But, that's missing the point. I was commenting on the observation in the video about how difficult some modelers are to use.



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Rammikin
post Jul 22 2017, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (HaveGuitar @ Jul 22 2017, 04:41 PM) *
Zoom's little device that could be attached to the strap ... don't remember it's name now


I still have a Korg Pandora that attaches to the strap. It's great for playing in the backyard smile.gif. Although I'm more likely to use JamUp or Amplitube on my phone these days.


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Mertay
post Jul 22 2017, 10:19 PM
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Digital amps shouldn't be forgotten, they're to me a processor internally connected to a clean amp. I'm guessing by beginners these are prefered to transistor based stuff we used when we first started.

I demo'd the boss Katana at a store, best digital amps I've heard so far aside an older Fender I forgot the model. I'm pretty sure they used the same algo's I disliked on the gt-1, but investing on the hardware really made it a successful amp and they quickly became popular here.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 22 2017, 10:22 PM


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