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> Recording Quality; Tips & Tricks, Recorded initial song, feedback needed
Roadside
post Jul 27 2017, 12:45 PM
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Hey GmC Family,

long time has passed since I was active, but I hope to be back with higher consistency.

Actually we just started a recent local "band" and kicked off a first recording which I would like to share with you.

Recording set-up:

ENGL Screamer Combo via Shure Sm 57 & Steinberg UR 242
Vocals via condensator mic (dont know the article now) and we tried to somehow seal the environment to have a more stable voice with less echo.
Bass n/a
Drums via VST instrument

Cubase

Anyhow, the song is not finished and it was just to record the basic ideas and give it a structure. We will completely rerecord as I have changed to a different amp now. The ENGL was a monster in distortion, but very unflexibel in adjust the distortion. It was just too much, as you will hear on the record.

What I am wondering about is that our vocals sound a trillion times better live than recorded. The voice gets flat and it feels like it has no clear position in the recording.

Before starting the next record I just wanted to get some feedback on what you think of recording quality. Besides of course the song, but this is quite subjective and just an idea yet.


Attached File  GoodRiddance_Stereo.wma ( 8.63MB ) Number of downloads: 27


Many thanks in advance guys! biggrin.gif

Tim


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 27 2017, 02:03 PM
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Welcome back! I'd love to hear your music but it's in .WMA format which is a bit wonky for folks using Macintosh machines. Can you convert to a standard format like MP3 or better yet use soundcloud to embed it so we can play it without needing a download in case we are on our phones when we see it?

Thanks!

Todd

QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 27 2017, 07:45 AM) *
Hey GmC Family,

long time has passed since I was active, but I hope to be back with higher consistency.

Actually we just started a recent local "band" and kicked off a first recording which I would like to share with you.

Recording set-up:

ENGL Screamer Combo via Shure Sm 57 & Steinberg UR 242
Vocals via condensator mic (dont know the article now) and we tried to somehow seal the environment to have a more stable voice with less echo.
Bass n/a
Drums via VST instrument

Cubase

Anyhow, the song is not finished and it was just to record the basic ideas and give it a structure. We will completely rerecord as I have changed to a different amp now. The ENGL was a monster in distortion, but very unflexibel in adjust the distortion. It was just too much, as you will hear on the record.

What I am wondering about is that our vocals sound a trillion times better live than recorded. The voice gets flat and it feels like it has no clear position in the recording.

Before starting the next record I just wanted to get some feedback on what you think of recording quality. Besides of course the song, but this is quite subjective and just an idea yet.


Attached File  GoodRiddance_Stereo.wma ( 8.63MB ) Number of downloads: 27


Many thanks in advance guys! biggrin.gif

Tim



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Roadside
post Jul 27 2017, 02:09 PM
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Ah - you are right, Todd. Will do it as soon as I return to my PC incl. Cubase wink.gif
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Mertay
post Jul 27 2017, 03:12 PM
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Try a low-cut plug-in on the guitar and (maybe) a compressor to reduce the jumpness a bit on this recording. The raw'ness of the recording might be affecting your judgement on adjusting the guitar tone/level of distortion.

The recording sounds open enough for me to mix but as with the learning curve some problems appear during mixing, maybe it would be better to some-what finish this tunes mix+mastering to reveal if end result feels close enough to your expectation. It doesn't have to sound amazing, just to clear-up thing before recording all the other songs.

As for the vocalist, the more he could shout while singing it would be a positive change. Maybe thats why when live you liked the vocals better?


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Roadside
post Jul 31 2017, 11:33 AM
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https://soundcloud.com/tim-heger-962320112/...riddance-stereo

Here you go, hope for your feedback" smile.gif
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Roadside
post Jul 31 2017, 12:02 PM
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I don't fully get your comment. You intend to try the mastering as the raw material is sufficient for now, or you would rather say to rerecord as the raw record is insufficient?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 27 2017, 04:12 PM) *
Try a low-cut plug-in on the guitar and (maybe) a compressor to reduce the jumpness a bit on this recording. The raw'ness of the recording might be affecting your judgement on adjusting the guitar tone/level of distortion.

The recording sounds open enough for me to mix but as with the learning curve some problems appear during mixing, maybe it would be better to some-what finish this tunes mix+mastering to reveal if end result feels close enough to your expectation. It doesn't have to sound amazing, just to clear-up thing before recording all the other songs.

As for the vocalist, the more he could shout while singing it would be a positive change. Maybe thats why when live you liked the vocals better?

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Mertay
post Jul 31 2017, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Jul 31 2017, 11:02 AM) *
I don't fully get your comment. You intend to try the mastering as the raw material is sufficient for now, or you would rather say to rerecord as the raw record is insufficient?


The raw tracks seem ok but since there is no mix process this might be affecting your judgement on individual instruments or overall sound.

Thats why I recommend strarting to mix this track before recording others. For example you might want to double the guitars, vocals or further shape guitar tones etc.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 31 2017, 12:51 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 7 2017, 10:57 PM
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Always a good idea to double track or even quad track guitars IMHO smile.gif You can always decide not to use them in the mix, or just use a little, but it's great to have the option!!! Also, the more you double / quad etc. the guitar, the more you should cut back on the gain/dist. Too much and it will just sound like mush. It can sound "Heavier" if the tones are a pinch less distorted, the more guitar tracks you add. smile.gif

Also, doubling the vocals is always a great idea imho smile.gif Again you don't have to use it in the mix, or maybe just use a pinch or maybe just for the chorus section, but it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it smile.gif

Also, use an eq on the guitars that has an RTA (real time analyzer), just a moving graph really that shows where the peaks are happening in a given track. I often use one just to see what's going on in the track without actually changing any slider values. Here is what the track EQ looks like in Logic X. It's a great tool to let you see what is going on in your track, E.G. there might be a HUGE spike at a given frequency that is messing with your mix and it's easy to see where it is and fix it.
Attached Image


Todd

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 31 2017, 07:51 AM) *
The raw tracks seem ok but since there is no mix process this might be affecting your judgement on individual instruments or overall sound.

Thats why I recommend strarting to mix this track before recording others. For example you might want to double the guitars, vocals or further shape guitar tones etc.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 7 2017, 11:03 PM


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Darius Wave
post Aug 8 2017, 11:30 AM
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For the playing you present here double tracking rhythm guitars is a kind of necessary these days. That's because a single guitar track has never as much impact as the guitar amp and cab has in the live conditions. Also...in rock/metal playing vocals do not stand out from the mix as much ass in your sample. For this kind of singing we usually cut a low of bass and low mids + add quite huge compression. We would rather want them to cut through with a treble end, instead of fighting guitars and snare in the midrange.


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Roadside
post Aug 9 2017, 08:58 AM
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Hey Todd,

yah, actually we thought about it, but were a little to lazy. We are reworking the track now and I will double/quad rythm guitars and see the effect.

If you double/quad guitar, how will you share between L/R channel? I would assume a 50/50 is not what you want, but rather sth 30/70?

How about if you quad it? Would you record 4 guitars our just use the same track and copy it and maybe put a timeshift of a few ms?

I will try the RTA option as well! Thanks for your input!

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 7 2017, 11:57 PM) *
Always a good idea to double track or even quad track guitars IMHO smile.gif You can always decide not to use them in the mix, or just use a little, but it's great to have the option!!! Also, the more you double / quad etc. the guitar, the more you should cut back on the gain/dist. Too much and it will just sound like mush. It can sound "Heavier" if the tones are a pinch less distorted, the more guitar tracks you add. smile.gif

Also, doubling the vocals is always a great idea imho smile.gif Again you don't have to use it in the mix, or maybe just use a pinch or maybe just for the chorus section, but it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it smile.gif

Also, use an eq on the guitars that has an RTA (real time analyzer), just a moving graph really that shows where the peaks are happening in a given track. I often use one just to see what's going on in the track without actually changing any slider values. Here is what the track EQ looks like in Logic X. It's a great tool to let you see what is going on in your track, E.G. there might be a HUGE spike at a given frequency that is messing with your mix and it's easy to see where it is and fix it.
Attached Image


Todd



Hey Darius,

what do you mean by "your playing"? Strongly distorted rythm guitar?

Will try out your hints for the vocals. I totally agree that the vocals stand out. They just sound like singing on a totally different recording.

Do you have any recommendation on how to cut out low bass and low mids? Which frequencies? Any compressor you would use?

Thanks again!


QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 8 2017, 12:30 PM) *
For the playing you present here double tracking rhythm guitars is a kind of necessary these days. That's because a single guitar track has never as much impact as the guitar amp and cab has in the live conditions. Also...in rock/metal playing vocals do not stand out from the mix as much ass in your sample. For this kind of singing we usually cut a low of bass and low mids + add quite huge compression. We would rather want them to cut through with a treble end, instead of fighting guitars and snare in the midrange.


This post has been edited by Roadside: Aug 9 2017, 09:02 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Sep 3 2017, 09:31 PM
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Sorry for the lag!! Please do PM me if you have a question for me so I don't miss it! smile.gif

Double, quad tracking guitars can be great for a track smile.gif TIPS: Make sure NOT to use too much gain!! Every time you double, take the gain back by about a quarter or more, use your ears to test. If you are using a guitar plugin, like TH2 or guitar rig or whatever, you can ajust all the distortion in real time as you hear playback which is very darn handy. You don't have to re record the tracks if you notice to much gain. It's like real time re amping which is why I love it so much smile.gif

As for panning, again your ears are your best tool. The closer together you put them in the pan, the louder they will read to the listener. So if you put them all in the middle, it will sound louder than if you panned them all hard left right.

If you quad track, you can put two hard left and right then the second pair and 10 an 2 on the hands of a clock. Make sense?

Also make sure you record vocals by themselves and double track them as well smile.gif you can use two different delay settings on the vocals which makes them sound even bigger smile.gif


Todd




QUOTE (Roadside @ Aug 9 2017, 03:58 AM) *
Hey Todd,

yah, actually we thought about it, but were a little to lazy. We are reworking the track now and I will double/quad rythm guitars and see the effect.

If you double/quad guitar, how will you share between L/R channel? I would assume a 50/50 is not what you want, but rather sth 30/70?

How about if you quad it? Would you record 4 guitars our just use the same track and copy it and maybe put a timeshift of a few ms?

I will try the RTA option as well! Thanks for your input!


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 3 2017, 09:32 PM


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