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> Will Music Lose Its Soul?
Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 5 2017, 04:10 PM
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This question and quote appears the day that I've discovered this app: https://www.facebook.com/gabrielleopardi/vi...14518129605656/

There's a quote attributed to Freddie Mercury: "We are in a golden age of music. There will be a time when technology becomes so advanced that we'll rely on it to make music rather than raw talent...and music will lose its soul."

I honestly don't agree, or at least don't think that technology is guilty on this...


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What do you think? Will Music Lose Its Soul?



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Roadside
post Sep 5 2017, 06:57 PM
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I would not agree either, but it will rather enlargen its access to larger group of people as media and technology will help those people produce advanced music, that they would not be able to produce on an instrument.

So I think it might even enlargen our musical society. But another statement and that one is surely true is that: "Music becomes more simple by time." At least for last 80 decades it is kind of true. It developed the first 3-4 decades and is now experiencing a degressive trend. Dont you think?
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Phil66
post Sep 5 2017, 07:57 PM
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I don't think ALL music will lose its soul. technology will allow people without much skill/knowledge to create music but it will be lifeless I think. People with soul, will be able to use modern technology to enhance their soul/feelings and get things out of their mind that they couldn't before.



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 6 2017, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Roadside @ Sep 5 2017, 02:57 PM) *
I would not agree either, but it will rather enlargen its access to larger group of people as media and technology will help those people produce advanced music, that they would not be able to produce on an instrument.

So I think it might even enlargen our musical society. But another statement and that one is surely true is that: "Music becomes more simple by time." At least for last 80 decades it is kind of true. It developed the first 3-4 decades and is now experiencing a degressive trend. Dont you think?



That's a good point. I also think that technology has a positive side that it more powerfull than the negative if it's used wisely. On the other hand, I also think that most of the music has become simplier, but I believe that there is a lot of underground music that keeps on evolving, and that there are artist that are as advanced as they were in the first 3/4 decades. However, it's not as visible now as it was in the past, because there is a lot of more "superfitial", mainstream or simple music hiding it. Do you agree?



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 5 2017, 03:57 PM) *
I don't think ALL music will lose its soul. technology will allow people without much skill/knowledge to create music but it will be lifeless I think. People with soul, will be able to use modern technology to enhance their soul/feelings and get things out of their mind that they couldn't before.


Nice thoughts. I think the same Phil.


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 7 2017, 08:14 AM
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I'd say most "Popular" music will lose it's soul if it hasn't already. Or if it hadn't lost it many years ago with the decline of the music industry as an "Industry". What resulted was music built by sales forecasting and demographic studies and by pandering to the least common denominator in a big way. There has always been some of this stuff going on, but only when belts started to get tight and staff started to get laid off did we see it really start to ramp up. Labels just don't have money like they used to. As a result, they are more careful, more cautious, more predictable, and more likely to market to tween girls who still have money to spend and will spend it on music and music related items like CDs and Posters and Meet and Greets, etc. Let's call it the "TAYLOR SWIFTING" of music.

The good news is, you don't need a record label to make music. Anyone can do it with a laptop and earbuds. No other gear/talent needed. As a result, we are flooded with lots of bad music. BUT, we are getting more music in general so there is more to choose from and some of the bands that are actually worth listening too might never have ever been heard of otherwise. As the audience continues to fragment further and further, these little niche styles will develop and sustain at least a few artists in each one. So I don't think the soul of music is gone, it's just gone underground smile.gif

Todd



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klasaine
post Sep 10 2017, 03:38 PM
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A little perspective ...

They been saying the same thing since the birth of recording ... when it was one mic and all done live.

In my lifetime I've heard ... "disco is killing music", "punk is killing music", "midi is killing music", "digital recording is killing music", "digital instruments are killing music", "home taping is killing music", "home recording is killing music", "napster/pirating is killing music", "the internet is killing music", "streaming is killing music", blah blah blah.


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Roadside
post Sep 10 2017, 03:59 PM
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Hmm, kind of agree to both of you.

Music styles seem to be reoccuring like a Sinus curve. Hopefully there will soon be a decade that we are all waiting for wink.gif
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fkalich
post Sep 10 2017, 05:29 PM
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It already has, or at least mislaid it.
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klasaine
post Sep 10 2017, 07:33 PM
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What's 'killing' or mislaying music is the fact that hardly any artists of consequence - i.e., someone who reaches a huge swath of the populous - has anything of consequence to say about anything. It's all about the fuckin' money or youtube likes and instagram likes or dissing each other or whatever. It's about popularity and not about the art. And don't regale me with some indie band or singer that reaches like 150 people. Sorry, but they don't count.

In the 60s, Rock and Roll (in caps on purpose) helped to change the world and stop a war. And that's no lie! Those artists reached multiple millions via very few mediums. Radio, TV, record albums and live concerts. And probably most importantly - word of mouth. Listening to music was a collective thing. You did it, as an activity, with people. And money was secondary. It was all about the art and a little bit about rebellion (against the establishment - whatever that may have been perceived as at the time - ?).

If anything is killing music - it ain't machines. It's probably more the so-called artists and their fans.
Music exists. It's just physics.
Forget about your fucking Youtube hits and just play.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 10 2017, 07:33 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 11 2017, 04:04 AM
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Surely you'd agree that youtube is a crucial element in gaining access to an audience for any musician that doesn't have a record label? Sure, there are wads of music acts / solo acts that are purely in it for the like/stats etc. But without youtube, wads of cool folks like Rick Graham for example, may have never become known outside the pub circuit.

It's impossible to argue that previous generations didn't have amazing artists, all through the 60s, 70, even the 80's. About mid 90s when the web began to overtake domestic distribution of music, music began to fragment over and over until sub sub sub sub genres with very small audiences were common place. E.g. Pagan Black Super Evil Doom Tech Tribal Death Metal (made that up)

But you get the idea smile.gif

The fragmentation of the audience and of the artists seems to nearly prohibit very many artists from achieving scale and those that do are often pumped up artificially for a given audience. E.G. Taylor swift (not knocking her) as her audience began as tween girls who still buy cds, and who buy wads of merch.

I would like to see new bands come up that can create big "followings" as in days of yore. smile.gif I do doubt it happening though simply because of the reasons mentioned.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 10 2017, 02:33 PM) *
What's 'killing' or mislaying music is the fact that hardly any artists of consequence - i.e., someone who reaches a huge swath of the populous - has anything of consequence to say about anything. It's all about the fuckin' money or youtube likes and instagram likes or dissing each other or whatever. It's about popularity and not about the art. And don't regale me with some indie band or singer that reaches like 150 people. Sorry, but they don't count.

In the 60s, Rock and Roll (in caps on purpose) helped to change the world and stop a war. And that's no lie! Those artists reached multiple millions via very few mediums. Radio, TV, record albums and live concerts. And probably most importantly - word of mouth. Listening to music was a collective thing. You did it, as an activity, with people. And money was secondary. It was all about the art and a little bit about rebellion (against the establishment - whatever that may have been perceived as at the time - ?).

If anything is killing music - it ain't machines. It's probably more the so-called artists and their fans.
Music exists. It's just physics.
Forget about your fucking Youtube hits and just play.


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Sensible Jones
post Sep 11 2017, 12:01 PM
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I have been thinking of a good reply to this and the best I can come up with is this:-

Music will lose it's Soul when people stop putting their Soul into their music.

This covers all music, regardless of Genre, Technology etc.....
Just my Penny's worth!
biggrin.gif


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klasaine
post Sep 11 2017, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 10 2017, 08:04 PM) *
Surely you'd agree that youtube is a crucial element in gaining access to an audience for any musician that doesn't have a record label? Sure, there are wads of music acts / solo acts that are purely in it for the like/stats etc. But without youtube, wads of cool folks like Rick Graham for example, may have never become known outside the pub circuit.


I'm not talking about the delivery method. Yes, today youtube is probably the best way to get across.

The perceived lack of soul or heart or however you label it stems from the fact that what's popular now - popular now as in reaching the most people on all mediums - is totally banal. The songs, the artists they're forgotten in 3 months. The really huge ones would never dream of 'rocking the boat' - they like the money too much.

There has always been a ton of lower tier independents that appeal to a niche, sometimes a pretty big niche. Before youtube it was 'college radio' and super small indie labels. They were everywhere. That music and those musicians will always exist.

My point is that overall, the overall culture now is not even into music that much. And in my opinion it's because the major acts - in any and all genres - actually are fucking soulless. Because they're only about the money. And the people know that. And if the big stars are only in it for the money (and the likes and the shares and the whatever ... ) then that's what we wanna do and be into too.

Machines and tech don't de-soul music. People do. Both the artists and the alleged fans.


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bleez
post Sep 11 2017, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 11 2017, 04:49 PM) *
My point is that overall, the overall culture now is not even into music that much. And in my opinion it's because the major acts - in any and all genres - actually are fucking soulless. Because they're only about the money. And the people know that. And if the big stars are only in it for the money (and the likes and the shares and the whatever ... ) then that's what we wanna do and be into too.

Machines and tech don't de-soul music. People do. Both the artists and the alleged fans.


Yup, that does indeed seem to be the case. mellow.gif
It reminds me a little of this old 2010 interview clip from Steven Wilson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61HUlcvDIC4


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 12 2017, 01:47 AM
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Now your speaking my language smile.gif I agree. The major acts today just simply lack a bit of honesty and soul IMHO. When I listen to the top 10 chart in a given week just to see what's 'happening" right then, I'm routinely struck by how DEAD and LIFELESS the music seems. I do realize, as you must, that we are no longer the target demo for the big acts. The target demographic is sadly lacking a pinch of soul themselves as the "Kardashianation" of culture becomes more and more pervasive. Instead of the music leading the way for a given scene, the scene is created from nothing and the music just sorta follows it along it seems.

Perhaps if we were both tween girls, we would read this thread and think "eeew! Grumpy Old Men!" I love the (enter act of the week here) "and I carved every band members name in to my body and posted it on instagram!!" or something like that.

The culture truly has changed. It's pandering to a much younger demographic and is much more flighty in general imho. I fear this is partially a result of the record label feeling the burn of simply going away. It's no secret that the "Music Biz" has been shrinking 10-20 percent annually for years now. What remains is truly vapid imho. It's starting to closely remind me of the pop scene in Japan where anyone with name/face recognition can be given a song and hit number 1 on the charts for a week or two.

We have fallen victim to this same sort of thing in terms of our own country and our current president. His fame and his "Brand" were a big part of his getting elected. Fame for fames sake seems to carry far more weight than it should and lead to very poor examples of music and culture.

I think we are in agreement on the main themes here, but you tell me?



QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 11 2017, 11:49 AM) *
I'm not talking about the delivery method. Yes, today youtube is probably the best way to get across.

The perceived lack of soul or heart or however you label it stems from the fact that what's popular now - popular now as in reaching the most people on all mediums - is totally banal. The songs, the artists they're forgotten in 3 months. The really huge ones would never dream of 'rocking the boat' - they like the money too much.

There has always been a ton of lower tier independents that appeal to a niche, sometimes a pretty big niche. Before youtube it was 'college radio' and super small indie labels. They were everywhere. That music and those musicians will always exist.

My point is that overall, the overall culture now is not even into music that much. And in my opinion it's because the major acts - in any and all genres - actually are fucking soulless. Because they're only about the money. And the people know that. And if the big stars are only in it for the money (and the likes and the shares and the whatever ... ) then that's what we wanna do and be into too.

Machines and tech don't de-soul music. People do. Both the artists and the alleged fans.




QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 11 2017, 11:49 AM) *
I'm not talking about the delivery method. Yes, today youtube is probably the best way to get across.

The perceived lack of soul or heart or however you label it stems from the fact that what's popular now - popular now as in reaching the most people on all mediums - is totally banal. The songs, the artists they're forgotten in 3 months. The really huge ones would never dream of 'rocking the boat' - they like the money too much.

There has always been a ton of lower tier independents that appeal to a niche, sometimes a pretty big niche. Before youtube it was 'college radio' and super small indie labels. They were everywhere. That music and those musicians will always exist.

My point is that overall, the overall culture now is not even into music that much. And in my opinion it's because the major acts - in any and all genres - actually are fucking soulless. Because they're only about the money. And the people know that. And if the big stars are only in it for the money (and the likes and the shares and the whatever ... ) then that's what we wanna do and be into too.

Machines and tech don't de-soul music. People do. Both the artists and the alleged fans.



Yup. He nailed it smile.gif It's completely fake and manufactured in large part. Thus the lifeless, soulless quality that seems so pervasive in popular music. I also agree with him that it's the industry trying to regain some control over the music itself and just being willing to admit that it's fake and having people really not care, just buying it anyway.

The music industry is shrinking at pace, in a few decades, it just won't exist as it has for the past several decades imho. It will keep getting squeezed and pushed into this corner of perpetuating falseshood and calling it music.

The only saving grace is that people with real talent have more ability to share their music than ever before. Granted, they may never make a living from it, but that too lends itself to a kind of musical purity. At that point, music is done for the love of music, not for money, as there isn't much to be made at that level. Sure there are exceptions to every rule or we wouldn't have rules. But by and large, the middle/bottom tier of artists (in terms of selling power) have to scrape together every revenue stream they can find and typically still do some sort of "straight" job. For example AMON AMARTH didn't go "Pro" until their last album. Until that point, they all went home after touring and got jobs paining houses or delivering pizzas. But they still always sounded like Amon Amarth. Finally, after decades of work, they were able to quit their crap jobs and go pro so it does happen. Ola Englund is another good example, he was a comptroller for years while he built his following. Then got invited to joint major acts and go on tour all over the world. Sadly, these are the exceptions. But they do happen smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (bleez @ Sep 11 2017, 12:40 PM) *
Yup, that does indeed seem to be the case. mellow.gif
It reminds me a little of this old 2010 interview clip from Steven Wilson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61HUlcvDIC4


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 12 2017, 01:48 AM


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klasaine
post Sep 12 2017, 02:13 AM
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I don't even think that teenage girls or even most alleged 'music fans' are really into the music per se. They're into taking pictures of themselves hanging out at an event (that they paid WAY too much money for) with other folks taking pictures of themselves and then looking at those pictures on line as they are shared and liked ad infinitum. And it's not just kids. It's most everybody. Documenting yourself having "the experience" is the prime motivator.

I blame the artists for this primarily. They're not writing songs and singing about anything important ... and there's plenty important stuff to sing and write about.
Say something. Have a fucking opinion and write a song about it already.


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 12 2017, 03:11 AM
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I'm with you there too smile.gif It seems folks are more interested in watching a show through their camera phone than actually watching the show which just doesn't make any sense to me. If 100 people around you are recording the show, it's gonna be on youtube, you can find it, why not just enjoy the show by watching the band? But maybe that's just me smile.gif

Fandom has changed indeed. You are spot on there. Folks want a selfie with the band more than they want to actually hear the band it seems. And yes, per my previous post, I agree that many top acts are simply vapid wastes of skin. They don't seem able to generate a genuine deep connection with their music so they go for the pretty and the bling and that's about it. I too wish music would shift a bit toward something more genuine and meaningful. I fear though that such a change is unlikely and such artists are destined to be bound to a small audience as the large audience has been trained to be who they are, which is to say the folks you are talking about.

I was a the PROG METAL FEST a few years back and it was the last time I saw people watching the show instead of recording it. They were there to hear music, to respond to the bands. It was great smile.gif It was when Marcus Siepen was playing with Sinbreed and the audience loved them. Epica was there as well. The bands and the audience connected in a way I've not seen since. Then again, most of the audience was way beyond their tween/teen years, so it wasn't the selfie stick crowd smile.gif


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QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 11 2017, 09:13 PM) *
I don't even think that teenage girls or even most alleged 'music fans' are really into the music per se. They're into taking pictures of themselves hanging out at an event (that they paid WAY too much money for) with other folks taking pictures of themselves and then looking at those pictures on line as they are shared and liked ad infinitum. And it's not just kids. It's most everybody. Documenting yourself having "the experience" is the prime motivator.

I blame the artists for this primarily. They're not writing songs and singing about anything important ... and there's plenty important stuff to sing and write about.
Say something. Have a fucking opinion and write a song about it already.



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Roadside
post Sep 14 2017, 07:41 PM
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Just my Penny. Ken nailed it pretty much here. Cannot disagree.

Have you noticed songs being shorter and shorter just because of people's span of attention? They are living the "to go" kind of life. I need my coffee, my wok, my wrap and my music to go and hopefully it changes as quickly as everything around me. Noone takes the time to listen to music anymore. And music has become something that is not a sole activity. People are listening to music WHILE doing other stuff. There is no patience in today's generation - and I am saying this being 28.

This post has been edited by Roadside: Sep 14 2017, 07:43 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Sep 14 2017, 08:05 PM
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You both nailed it IMHO smile.gif Attention spans are being compressed more and more. It's an almost natural outgrowth of technology and social medial. About two minutes seems to be the current average. Videos, songs, etc. A couple of minutes and then folks are ready to move on. Also, yeah, folks don't view music as it's own activity, it's something they do while doing other things and it's less social in part because everyone has their own ipod etc. and is having their own soundtrack. smile.gif

Without judging it, I'd say it's a natural progression resulting from emergent technologies. It sure changes things for musicians to be sure and for music in general. Big, drastic changes. The key will be how we all adapt to the "New Normal"

Todd

QUOTE (Roadside @ Sep 14 2017, 02:41 PM) *
Just my Penny. Ken nailed it pretty much here. Cannot disagree.

Have you noticed songs being shorter and shorter just because of people's span of attention? They are living the "to go" kind of life. I need my coffee, my wok, my wrap and my music to go and hopefully it changes as quickly as everything around me. Noone takes the time to listen to music anymore. And music has become something that is not a sole activity. People are listening to music WHILE doing other stuff. There is no patience in today's generation - and I am saying this being 28.



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Roadside
post Sep 14 2017, 08:37 PM
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Somehow every change is a "natural" change, isn't it? Still a change made by people living a certain culture on this planet!

I assume some day sun will circle 'round us.
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