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> Practice With Backing Tracks Will Ruin Your Rhythm And Timing (?)
Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 17 2017, 02:55 PM
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I don't agree with the tittle of this one since I don't think that playing along with backing tracks can affect our timing in a bad way. However the exercises shared are very helpful for both timing and rhythm





What do you think?


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Caelumamittendum
post Oct 17 2017, 03:24 PM
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See, isn't there also an argument saying that if you only practice to a metronome, you will struggle when playing with a real band that might not be 100 tight? I don't know, I'm just thinking it might be ideal to practice some with a metronome, some with a backing track and some with a real band.


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PosterBoy
post Oct 18 2017, 09:39 AM
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I like Jens a lot he's a great teacher and player.

I understand his approach and I've heard this from other people like Tomo Fujito too. Too much information doesn't help you develop your internal sense of rhythm and time.

In terms of harmony I can see that with a backing track you can take a lot of liberties in what you play, but try playing without one, and then try and outline the chord changes with your soloing and hitting target chord tones so the listener can get a sense of the progression even though it isn't there.

It's not a case of never use backing tracks but the benefit to your playing if you do add some practice without them.


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Mertay
post Oct 18 2017, 11:27 AM
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Laid back soloing over a backing track, I can agree but recording on one is a whole different thing.


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klasaine
post Oct 18 2017, 04:50 PM
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For rock and pop I have no opinion on the matter but for Jazz or fusion or blues, the best 'teacher' is to play live with a trio: bass, drums and you. It can be, lets say, very 'revealing'.

If you're using backing tracks you can usually find just bass and drum accompaniment or easily program that yourself on most if not all of the apps available.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 18 2017, 04:50 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 19 2017, 01:59 PM
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Great feedback here! I think that it's a bit of everything. Both metronome, backing tracks and real band have its own pros and cons so being able to alternate between each of these ways of practice can't be negative, on the other hand, I think that it's very positive. However, the cool thing of this video and this discussion is that it makes students know that there is not a right way, but it's neither the same to use one or the other method.



Check out this exercise:




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Phil66
post Oct 19 2017, 08:49 PM
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Great topic.

I can see that when you use backing tracks created by computer, or something like a Digitech Trio or even just a metronome, you probably won't develop the skill of adjusting to other people but you will develop good timing.

I think it would be good to have backing tracks available recorded by a live band without the drummer using an in ear click, that would help people like me, who don't know many other musicians, to develop that feel of playing with slight timing variations.

Maybe there is a market for that. I guess you could jam along to a live album, but a live jam track with a 12 bar would be good, I guess we could record our own but a pro track, with live drums and bass would be great wink.gif

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Nov 6 2017, 08:10 PM


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fkalich
post Oct 20 2017, 02:10 AM
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thanks, good video, things to learn from that guy. thanks for the link!

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Todd Simpson
post Oct 20 2017, 07:51 PM
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Well said! It really does help to to practice with as many things/folks as one can. Backing tracks, live jamming, etc. To be sure, a backing track serves a purpose, it's predictable so you know what's coming. It's also great to be able to play with actual musicians though. It's a very different thing and worth the effort. IT's more unpredictable and more dynamic. It's often a lot more effort to find a spot to jam, folks to jam with, etc. So even doing it online is good and often easier. There are several sites that let you jam live with other musicians and if you haven't tried it, it's worth doing smile.gif

https://www.jam-live.com

https://jammr.net/download.html

https://www.jamkazam.com

http://jamtaba-music-web-site.appspot.com/


Also, i'd like to make an OPEN INVITATION to ANYONE who would like to try a live Jam Session with me. smile.gif


Just shoot me a personal message and let me know which one of the sites/software you want to try and we will give it a go! smile.gif


going to make this a sticky link in my forum too smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 19 2017, 08:59 AM) *
Great feedback here! I think that it's a bit of everything. Both metronome, backing tracks and real band have its own pros and cons so being able to alternate between each of these ways of practice can't be negative, on the other hand, I think that it's very positive. However, the cool thing of this video and this discussion is that it makes students know that there is not a right way, but it's neither the same to use one or the other method.



Check out this exercise:




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Darius Wave
post Oct 21 2017, 11:03 AM
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I wouldn't agree as well as Gab. Let's get aside from playing with real people, which is always a best way to feel the music and rhythm in a particular flow that is non-computer. I see no reason why playing over backing tracks could harm our sense of timing. Generally playing over anything that has a precise and even tempo value, boosts our sense of timming when we play without a "click" with real people. I have never found this could be an issue.

On my own example I can say it's a good workout because even with a real band with some licks we may have a tendency to rush or get behind the beat/laid back which is not exactly the same kind of feel that is warm welcome in jazz kind of playing. As usual all depends on perspective but some timing slips can affect all the band while we play. It's not always a good thing.

For example:
Part A - tempo 140 bpm, dense lyrics
Part B - guitar solo that we affected the band the way tempo increased to 150 bmp
Part A again - with new tempo vocals tend to loose the grrove and clarity. Vocalist literally can't breath inbetween text lines

Of course it's a dramatic example but sometimes it happens.


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Arpeggio
post Oct 31 2017, 12:38 AM
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Now and then I make sure to use backing track styles outside of my comfort zone / not common / styles I don't particularly like Ice Cream Van Pulp Fiction Disco Jazz.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 31 2017, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Oct 30 2017, 08:38 PM) *
Now and then I make sure to use backing track styles outside of my comfort zone / not common / styles I don't particularly like Ice Cream Van Pulp Fiction Disco Jazz.


That's a good method! On a similar approach I think that playing with many different musicians can also be a good study, don't you think so? The way to make it possible is going to live jams. There are a lot of jazz jams at my country, but a few blues and rock ones.


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Arpeggio
post Nov 1 2017, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 31 2017, 03:45 AM) *
That's a good method! On a similar approach I think that playing with many different musicians can also be a good study, don't you think so? The way to make it possible is going to live jams. There are a lot of jazz jams at my country, but a few blues and rock ones.


Thanks. Yes it can be a challenge to play appropriately to the style. I find if you are good at Blues but then try to play over, say, a fast Ska music backing track you'll need to do something quite different and be out of comfort zone. Playing with others is good. Maybe Rock and Blues are not as popular in South America? Another style that I find fun to play over is Latin like Bossa etc. Tango being from Argentina although I've not tried playing Tango Guitar yet.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 1 2017, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Oct 31 2017, 08:00 PM) *
Thanks. Yes it can be a challenge to play appropriately to the style. I find if you are good at Blues but then try to play over, say, a fast Ska music backing track you'll need to do something quite different and be out of comfort zone. Playing with others is good. Maybe Rock and Blues are not as popular in South America? Another style that I find fun to play over is Latin like Bossa etc. Tango being from Argentina although I've not tried playing Tango Guitar yet.



Rock is definitely more popular than Jazz and Blues in Argentina. However, the most popular styles here are Pop, Folk, and Reggeaton.

However, when talking about jam sessions, you'll find more based on jazz, being blues on the second place.

Tango is also part of our folk, but it's not popular or mainstream, but it's part of our culture and everybody respects it.



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