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> Intonation Question
Phil66
post Dec 23 2017, 08:50 PM
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Hello folks,

I set up the intonation on my PRS Custom 24 the other day, I go the 12 fret fretted notes to match the open string and the 12th fret harmonic notes to be really close. I have a question though and the issue I have may be normal. Working along the neck, some notes will be spot on, some slightly sharp and some slightly flat. I thought that if the string length was out there would be a gradual change in the same direction, ie getting more and more flat or more and more sharp as you went towards a certain point.

My ears aren't good enough to hear this issue but people with ears like Darius will notice. Is this anything that can be tuned out by a pro or is it the nature of the beast?

Cheers


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klasaine
post Dec 23 2017, 10:21 PM
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Equal temperament isn't perfect or 'just' temperament. Some notes will be a hair sharp or flat.
How are the fretted notes at the 7th fret?
How are you physically fretting?
Fretting notes close to the fret wire towards the top of the neck is the most accurate.
Don't apply any more pressure than is necessary to sound the note clearly.
If you're fretting the notes with the guitar in normal playing position, make sure you're not pushing up or down on the string (towards the ceiling or the floor).


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Phil66
post Dec 23 2017, 11:24 PM
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Thanks Ken,

When I did the test I was very careful. The notes weren't very sharp or flat, they were within the tolerance points on the tuner but I was surprised to see one get sharp and the next flat.

Cheers

Phil



This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 24 2017, 02:39 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 24 2017, 01:08 AM
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Are you saying they are not sharp/flat when played carefully? Only when playing loosely? Or are they sharp/flat not matter what? I'm a bit confused by your response. You mention that "the tones weren't sharp or flat", but then you say "one get sharp and the next flat". ??

I'd say trust your tuner and fret carefully when trying to check intonation. If you are fretting carefully and you see it sharp/flat on the tuner, then you may need to have your guitar intonated by a luthier or perhaps even have the frets leveled. It's not uncommon for guitars to have some degree of intonation issue, even high end models have issues in many cases. As was mentioned, the Tru Temperament process is an attempt to try to fix all of the harmonic/tonal inconsistencies on a fret board after the guitar has been intonated as best as can be. But it's hugely expensive, about a grand or so.

so yeah, if you find it drifting according to the tuner, it's Luthier time for an intonation job.

Todd



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 23 2017, 06:24 PM) *
Thanks Ken,

When I did the test I was very careful. The notes weren't sort sharp or flat, they were within the tolerance points on the tuner but I was surprised to see one get sharp and the next flat.

Cheers

Phil



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Phil66
post Dec 24 2017, 02:45 PM
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Sorry Todd, I've corrected it? I meant they weren't massively out. They were still within the tolerance points on the tuner (Kory TM50) I was just surprised that one would be slightly flat and the next slightly sharp and the next spot on.

It wasn't when playing that I noticed this, I wouldn't notice this degree of error with my current level of hearing skills, I greeted each note along one string pressing just enough to get it to ring out.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers


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Mertay
post Dec 24 2017, 03:40 PM
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Klasaine's 7th fret is a good advice, adjustment can be made in greater detail.


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Rammikin
post Dec 24 2017, 04:20 PM
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It's not unusual for a guitar to be out of tune slightly at other frets after tuning at the 12th fret and open. There are too many variables that affect the pitch for it to be precisely in tune all along the fretboard, even when the frets are perfectly placed. Things like action height, string gauge, fret height, and string material all affect the pitch. Even the pressure you apply when fretting will affect the pitch.

This has nothing to do with temperament. Compared to something like a flute, a guitar is simply not an accurate resonator.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 25 2017, 06:48 AM
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Got it smile.gif As has been mentioned, no guitar will intonate perfectly. Hopefully, one good luthier visit can get it as close as possible.

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2017, 09:45 AM) *
Sorry Todd, I've corrected it? I meant they weren't massively out. They were still within the tolerance points on the tuner (Kory TM50) I was just surprised that one would be slightly flat and the next slightly sharp and the next spot on.

It wasn't when playing that I noticed this, I wouldn't notice this degree of error with my current level of hearing skills, I greeted each note along one string pressing just enough to get it to ring out.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers



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