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> Monkeydathos' Composition Workout, Let's create some songs!
Caelumamittendum
post Jan 4 2018, 04:41 PM
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Hey MonkeyDAthos!

First of all I would like to thank you for being the first to bite, if we don't count Todd asking for a bit of sweep/arpeggio mentoring/guidance.

As I said in the other thread, I don't expect you to answer daily, weekly or any other time, just whenever you feel like it and have the time.

I know you asked for some composition advice and advice on writing songs, so I want to go ahead and ask you a few questions regarding this:

- What kind of music are you into? You can give example of bands and songs.
- What kind of music do you want to write?
- Have you written songs before? And if you have, do you feel like sharing some of your work? It can be here or private message, that's okay too! And if you haven't written anything, here's a cheers to starting something new!

And on a final question: Do you own any programs that can help you create compositions? DAW, Guitar Pro, VSTs... if you have programs like this, let me know, as I will try and work something with those programs for you smile.gif

I know you go to music school from reading your posts, so you probably already know a bit of theory and such that can help you and us get the best of this smile.gif

I'm looking really forward to this!


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 12:49 AM
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Hi Cael!

Ye I am currently attending a Jazz music school I am on my first year, so I know a few of theory and what not. But nothing to impressive. Quite the rookie tbh.

What kind of music are you into?
: - Well, to summarize....a lot of stuff.
Really dig Prog from early ages to the more modern ones. Opeth's Ghost Reveries and In the Court of Crimson King by King Crimson are albums I can jam any time.
The other side I am also a big Math Rock and Post-Rock Fan ( Katsuhiko Maeda who mix post rock with a lot of genres is a big role model to me).

- What kind of music do you want to write?
I dunno, From just a solo guitar piece (like chord melody) to a full band arrangement. I really just want to start something and finish.

-Have you written songs before?{b]
Well I have tons riffs and ideas....buts that's it. And that's the issue..they are just riffs and ideas.

[b]Do you own any programs that can help you create compositions?


I used to had, but my old pc dead, my interface also dead. So right now being able store the ideas in guitar pro is fine. (plus It gives me practice to write music notation for music school)


One of my main issues with guitar pro is that I have no idea how to write drums and by that I mean I suck at tabbing out drums.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Sky_Quakes_1.gp5 ( 24.01K ) Number of downloads: 19
Attached File  Tap_Water.gpx ( 71.86K ) Number of downloads: 22
 


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 5 2018, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 5 2018, 12:49 AM) *
Hi Cael!

Ye I am currently attending a Jazz music school I am on my first year, so I know a few of theory and what not. But nothing to impressive. Quite the rookie tbh.

What kind of music are you into?
: - Well, to summarize....a lot of stuff.
Really dig Prog from early ages to the more modern ones. Opeth's Ghost Reveries and In the Court of Crimson King by King Crimson are albums I can jam any time.
The other side I am also a big Math Rock and Post-Rock Fan ( Katsuhiko Maeda who mix post rock with a lot of genres is a big role model to me).

- What kind of music do you want to write?
I dunno, From just a solo guitar piece (like chord melody) to a full band arrangement. I really just want to start something and finish.

-Have you written songs before?{b]
Well I have tons riffs and ideas....buts that's it. And that's the issue..they are just riffs and ideas.

[b]Do you own any programs that can help you create compositions?


I used to had, but my old pc dead, my interface also dead. So right now being able store the ideas in guitar pro is fine. (plus It gives me practice to write music notation for music school)


One of my main issues with guitar pro is that I have no idea how to write drums and by that I mean I suck at tabbing out drums.


It's great that you are attending music school. I wish I had done the same! I'm sure you will learn a lot through the years. How many years is it?

Now, on to the questions. It's great that you are into prog. As you know, so am I. Post-rock and math-rock is very cool too!
And I like that fact that you just want to finish something. The two guitar pro files you sent me were great! Some great ideas there that could be worked with! I'm sure your other ideas are just as good and useful!

I'm sorry to hear about your interface, old PC and such, but at least you can still work with Guitar Pro. Then when one day you have those things again, we can work on recording if you want to smile.gif

Drums are fairly simple to write in Guitar Pro 5 and in Guitar Pro 7. In Guitar Pro 6, they're annoyingly tricky, and I don't think it's worth bothering too much with writing drums in that. What I do if I need something to be in Guitar Pro 6 file format, is to write the drums in GP5 or GP7 and export it to GP6.

I will make a little tutorial and lesson for you on drums today. Then you will maybe see a way that you can add drums to your songs, which will give much more of a foundation to the ideas. smile.gif

EDIT:

Quick question: Do you have Guitar Pro 7 or only GP5 and GP6? I will make the tutorial for what you have smile.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 12:25 PM
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Have both Guitar 5 and 6


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 5 2018, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 5 2018, 12:25 PM) *
Have both Guitar 5 and 6


Thanks smile.gif I will make a video for you today on drums, then we can talk more about writing songs smile.gif Or if you have any other ideas, just let me know. I don't want to pressure you into anything laugh.gif

For me it was just a natural step learning to write drum parts smile.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jan 5 2018, 11:28 AM) *
Thanks smile.gif I will make a video for you today on drums, then we can talk more about writing songs smile.gif Or if you have any other ideas, just let me know. I don't want to pressure you into anything laugh.gif

For me it was just a natural step learning to write drum parts smile.gif



Sounds great to me, writing drums is something that I've been wanting to get my head around for a big while.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 5 2018, 02:58 PM
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So I've made a small video for you and anyone else starting out with writing drums:



You can google more beginner drum beats, or crazy ones if you want, here's a few to get you started:



Of course there are way more complex drum patterns out there, in odd time signatures, like this:



Or this in 7/4:



Now what I would like to see is you adding some drum groove (you can start simple) to one of your ideas in Guitar Pro. You can make one bar and just copy/paste it if you want. All I want is to see you get going with writing drums smile.gif


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For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 03:46 PM
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Wow! biggrin.gif Awesome post!
Think I will spend the rest of the day messing around with it and post something as soon as I can.
Thank you for taking your time making this! For real.

Edit
PS: I totally miss the question, the school is a 4 year program.

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jan 5 2018, 03:46 PM


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 5 2018, 03:48 PM
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It's my pleasure! smile.gif

4 years! That's awesome! You will learn A LOT I bet!


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For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/storm-linnebjerg-a-celestial-voyage-full-demo

And subscribe to my Youtube Channel and Instagram here! and here!
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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 05:12 PM
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I suck at this but here an first attempt (fairly simple and boring)
One of my main fear is that I end up writing something that takes like 4 legs and 5 arms to play huh.gif and I am unsure which drum part is usually played where. I tend to just follow my ears.
I wrote in GP 5 then into GP6 for well, nicer sound.

The voice layer thing was really useful. Had no idea of its function.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Sky_Quakes_drum_learning1.gpx ( 39.22K ) Number of downloads: 23
 


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 5 2018, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 5 2018, 05:12 PM) *
I suck at this but here an first attempt (fairly simple and boring)
One of my main fear is that I end up writing something that takes like 4 legs and 5 arms to play huh.gif and I am unsure which drum part is usually played where. I tend to just follow my ears.
I wrote in GP 5 then into GP6 for well, nicer sound.

The voice layer thing was really useful. Had no idea of its function.


That's a good concern to have, cause you don't want to write something that requires 8 arms and 7 legs. But checking this, you did very well! Sure there are things that a drummer might do different, but this is a VERY GOOD start. I feel really proud of you for writing this so far!

What I usually do is exactly imagine myself behind a drumset, even if I'm not a drummer. You have 2 feet and 2 arms, but of course playing something with all of those at once doesn't happen often, usually AT MOST you will have a kick drum, snare and one more on the same place, or maybe if you're ending something I typically use a kick drum and a hit on both the crashes.

For a first attempt you did way better than I ever did with my first experimentations smile.gif It's also good that you experimented with slower feel, half time feel, with the snare om the 3rd beat (and other places). I didn't even tell you above this, but it's a thing I do too at times, and it can have a nice effect.



--------------------
For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/storm-linnebjerg-a-celestial-voyage-full-demo

And subscribe to my Youtube Channel and Instagram here! and here!
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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 5 2018, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jan 5 2018, 04:20 PM) *
That's a good concern to have, cause you don't want to write something that requires 8 arms and 7 legs. But checking this, you did very well! Sure there are things that a drummer might do different, but this is a VERY GOOD start. I feel really proud of you for writing this so far!


Thx! You made it easy to understand.

QUOTE
For a first attempt you did way better than I ever did with my first experimentations smile.gif It's also good that you experimented with slower feel, half time feel, with the snare om the 3rd beat (and other places). I didn't even tell you above this, but it's a thing I do too at times, and it can have a nice effect.


Ye, tbh I have no idea what those terms mean! laugh.gif Was kinda trying to lock the drum beats with the guitar beats, trying to make them work as one. Got to take some days to study it out.

I will keep messing around with it!


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It's a proven fact that guitar faces have a bigger impact on tone than wood does.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 6 2018, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 5 2018, 05:58 PM) *
Thx! You made it easy to understand.



Ye, tbh I have no idea what those terms mean! laugh.gif Was kinda trying to lock the drum beats with the guitar beats, trying to make them work as one. Got to take some days to study it out.

I will keep messing around with it!


It's kind of common to have the snare on the 2nd and 4th beat of the measure, but if you only play it on the 3rd beat instead, thus halving the times the snare is played, you get a different feel.

To add the snare on different places give a different feeling of course. Most drummers will probably want to play on those beats that I mentioned, but in more proggy arrangements you can find different use of the snare, for sure. Like combining it with the guitar rythm in some way as you did. smile.gif

I'm glad you found it easy to understand. Have you been working more on it? smile.gif


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For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/storm-linnebjerg-a-celestial-voyage-full-demo

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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 8 2018, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jan 6 2018, 05:29 PM) *
I'm glad you found it easy to understand. Have you been working more on it? smile.gif


Unfortunately no, the music school is pretty far away from home and all I have on me is my phone and a coach to sleep.

I will give you an update whenever I can.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 8 2018, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 8 2018, 04:31 PM) *
Unfortunately no, the music school is pretty far away from home and all I have on me is my phone and a coach to sleep.

I will give you an update whenever I can.


No worries, take your time and enjoy school! smile.gif


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For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 19 2018, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jan 8 2018, 03:43 PM) *
No worries, take your time and enjoy school! smile.gif


I dunno if enjoy is the right word biggrin.gif more often than not I feel like burning my guitar.

But resuming me failing at drums writing.
So decided to tackle it today for a few minutes, but got stuck.
Around bar 4 I can hear in my head like a drum fill that leads into the feel rhythm change. But no idea what! laugh.gif What would you recommend.

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jan 19 2018, 10:39 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Skyqks.gpx ( 54.7K ) Number of downloads: 22
 


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 26 2018, 10:42 AM
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Sorry for not returning earlier. I've had some busy time with my family being on visit and then completely lost track of time afterwards.

I'm writing to let you know I will reply later today, also as a reminder for myself smile.gif

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Jan 26 2018, 10:43 AM


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 26 2018, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jan 26 2018, 09:42 AM) *
Sorry for not returning earlier. I've had some busy time with my family being on visit and then completely lost track of time afterwards.

I'm writing to let you know I will reply later today, also as a reminder for myself smile.gif


No problem at all! Take whatever time you need. tongue.gif
Tbh I'vnt wrote or practiced anything since I last posted here. Been a bit on the down side myself.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jan 27 2018, 08:01 AM
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One thing I noticed in the file was that it seemed to have switched the upper layer and lower layer around. That made it a bit confusing to look at, with the notes overlapping. I don't know if this was the program or on your end though smile.gif

That said, I liked the drums! I can see it needed a fill. My best advice is either to look up drum fills on google to get an idea of what you can do or try and air drum a fill. That's what I sometimes do. I imagine I have 2 to 3 toms and a snare drum.

I did a little edit of it all, but unfortunately when I export from GP7 to GP5 it alters some things in the tab making it very hard to read. GP7 and GP6 seems alright, though I don't like to edit drums in GP6, as there's no tablature as far as I'm aware?

I've included GP7, GP6 and GP5 file to show you an example smile.gif The GP7 file had to be in a zip folder or GMC wouldn't allow the upload.

Attached File(s)
Attached File  Skyqks_Cael_Edit.gp5 ( 21.03K ) Number of downloads: 14
Attached File  Skyqks_Cael_Edit.gpx ( 58.84K ) Number of downloads: 14
Attached File  Skyqks_Cael_Edit.zip ( 36.63K ) Number of downloads: 12
 


--------------------
For some prog metal made by yours truly, check out:

https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/storm-linnebjerg-a-celestial-voyage-full-demo

And subscribe to my Youtube Channel and Instagram here! and here!
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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 27 2018, 08:22 AM
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Ye I used GP6 to edit the drums, just to get the feel of it in contrast to GP5.
And thanks for your time edit it, I kind got some ideas out of it!
I will spend this weekend writing stuff, feeling like focus on my own stuff for a few days rather than grinding for music school.
Was jamming yesterday and came up with something new as well.

Will post up whenever is somehow, hm. less crappy tongue.gif

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jan 27 2018, 08:24 AM


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