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Rammikin
post Jan 29 2018, 03:54 PM
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http://www.fractalaudio.com/iii/

Looks pretty awesome.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 29 2018, 04:37 PM
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That looks lovely!!!!!


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AK Rich
post Jan 29 2018, 06:32 PM
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Good grief. Here we go with the wait list again.

"The Axe-Fx III is expected to begin shipping in the USA and Canada on March 1, 2018 priced at $2499.99." ohmy.gif

"Due to the overwhelming response of this offer we cannot tell you your position in line or estimate when you will receive the purchase invitation." dry.gif

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Jan 29 2018, 06:39 PM
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klasaine
post Jan 29 2018, 07:52 PM
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Well, you know what NAMM stands for? ...

Not available, maybe March.


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AK Rich
post Jan 30 2018, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 29 2018, 10:52 AM) *
Well, you know what NAMM stands for? ...

Not available, maybe March.


biggrin.gif Good one. Yeah maybe March 2019. I guess we will see what the demand is and how well Fractal can keep up. I am not a big fan of Fractals business model of exclusiveness and waiting around to see how many are ordered before they actually start building anything and where try before you buy is basically out the window unless you want to put up the money up front. The new unit does seem to have some major improvements especially in the CPU performance. We will see I guess.
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Rammikin
post Jan 30 2018, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jan 30 2018, 05:20 PM) *
I am not a big fan of Fractals business model of exclusiveness and waiting around to see how many are ordered before they actually start building anything


That isn't quite accurate. They don't wait for orders to come in before building. And the exclusiveness isn't by choice. But they are a small outfit. With their production running at full speed, they build relatively few units, so that means the spike in demand that naturally accompanies the release of a new product will mean a wait. With the popularity Fractal enjoys among prominent guitarists, it's easy to get the mistaken impression that they are a large company.





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Darius Wave
post Jan 30 2018, 10:12 PM
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Just having a loose thought....When we slowly switch to a digital gear platform, we will soon experience what guys from Computer market or Keabords market experience for years. Looks how fast electronics loose their price because of something new being released and technology going forward. Accidentaly though of this today when I saw somebody tryign to sell older AXE model - Ultra and how much did the price go off. This doesn't happen with used amps or guitars that much. It's a risky thing once you switch to this platform and try to be up to date tongue.gif...financially risky of course tongue.gif


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Rammikin
post Jan 30 2018, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 30 2018, 09:12 PM) *
Accidentaly though of this today when I saw somebody tryign to sell older AXE model - Ultra and how much did the price go off. This doesn't happen with used amps or guitars that much.


I think you'd be surprised. An AxeFX Ultra is a ten-year old model, and sells used for around $700 to $1000 US. Some amps and guitars are especially prized and keep their value of course, but the Ultra has kept its value in the same way most 10-year old amps or guitars have.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 31 2018, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jan 30 2018, 06:56 PM) *
I think you'd be surprised. An AxeFX Ultra is a ten-year old model, and sells used for around $700 to $1000 US. Some amps and guitars are especially prized and keep their value of course, but the Ultra has kept its value in the same way most 10-year old amps or guitars have.



Interesting discussion! I can see how many guitarists at my country are selling their Dual Rectifiers at low prices to go for a Fractal. For this reason the reselling price of a Mesa is low nowadays.

I wonder what about Kemper... are there any news about the more direct Fractal competitor?



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Rammikin
post Jan 31 2018, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 31 2018, 12:50 AM) *
I wonder what about Kemper... are there any news about the more direct Fractal competitor?


As I mentioned in the NAMM thread, there was no news from Kemper this year. It's hard to say who Kemper's competition is these days. Years ago, Fractal and Kemper were competitors, but Kemper has stood still while Fractal has progressed with ever more capable products. In the US you can currently get an AxeFX XL+ for the same price as a Kemper! But if you look at the AxeFX III and the AX8, you can see the competition Fractal is worried about is Line6. That's good news for all of us. Fractal and Line6 will push each to be better.




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Todd Simpson
post Jan 31 2018, 06:58 PM
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It's about darn time IMHO they caught up with line 6 and offered a large color screen instead of of small green and black one.
Not to mention only the later revisions even had a head phone jack and or usb recording. Basic bits that should have been a part of such a pricy unit since day one IMHO. Just mine thought, but yeah, they could have spared the 10 cents for a headphone jack and a way to record usb on the first rev. They know they have a huge hunk of the market cornered and a loyal fan base so they seem free to lag behind on features and let their fans defend them. Personally I think it's sorta pure crap to treat loyal users that way.

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jan 29 2018, 10:54 AM) *


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jan 31 2018, 07:02 PM


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Rammikin
post Jan 31 2018, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 31 2018, 05:58 PM) *
It's about darn time IMHO they caught up with line 6 and offered a large color screen instead of of small green and black one.
Not to mention only the later revisions even had a head phone jack and or usb recording. Basic bits that should have been a part of such a pricy unit since day one IMHO. Just mine thought, but yeah, they could have spared the 10 cents for a headphone jack and a way to record usb on the first rev. They know they have a huge hunk of the market cornered and a loyal fan base so they seem free to lag behind on features and let their fans defend them. Personally I think it's sorta pure crap to treat loyal users that way.


Only the original Ultra/Std from 10 years ago lacked a headphone jack and USB. Starting with the AxeFX II, all AxeFX models have had a headphone jack and USB. That was several years before the Line6 Helix even existed. Lagging behind competition that doesn't even exist yet would require time travel skills that I'm quite certain are beyond the capabilities of Fractal Audio smile.gif. Kemper on the other hand, in 2018 still does not have USB output.

Personally, I consider the large screen on a rackmount unit to be a waste. The interface I use on a rackmount unit is the editor app, not the device's front panel. And indeed, some people are complaining that the AxeFX III is 3 units high because of a display they consider unnecessarily large. I can see how the large display is important on a floor unit though.




In any case, that's the nature of competition in technology. Competitors don't progress in lock step. Instead, they move forward in a series of leap frog maneuvers.



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AK Rich
post Jan 31 2018, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jan 30 2018, 09:48 AM) *
That isn't quite accurate. They don't wait for orders to come in before building. And the exclusiveness isn't by choice. But they are a small outfit. With their production running at full speed, they build relatively few units, so that means the spike in demand that naturally accompanies the release of a new product will mean a wait. With the popularity Fractal enjoys among prominent guitarists, it's easy to get the mistaken impression that they are a large company.

It may not be quite accurate but it certainly isn't far from the truth the way I see it. Being a small outfit in the beginning was maybe an excuse but Fractal has been around and successful long enough now (about 12 years) to be able to determine how many units they may sell in a year and get them produced quick enough ahead of time so folks don't have to wait 6 months to a year after the initial release date to get theirs. They are also big enough now to where they should be able to have some licensed dealers that can carry a few units or at least one for folks to try out even if they are only there for demo purposes and not for sale.

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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 1 2018, 02:33 PM
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It's curious to see that this is the first thing that appears when you go to Kemper amps site:

Attached Image


Is this a bad or a good signal? biggrin.gif


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Grappa
post Feb 1 2018, 03:59 PM
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Kemper are hiring developers at the moment - hard to say whether that's good or bad tbh. If it's because they have lost some then maybe bad. If it's because they are expanding it maybe good? Who knows..

As a Kemper user (and active member of their forum) we had the usual NAMM excitement by many and then ultimately disappointment as no new products/free updates were announced.

I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy as a great product is a great product and I bought mine based on it's current capability. As it's digital their seems to be a perception that it will be updated forever (for free) and that it has the capacity (processor wise) to allow this to happen. Despite the fact that the competition is moving on this doesn't worry me but it may well worry others. Moving on doesn't necessarily mean getting better. We have become used to the treadmill of upgrades and product obsolesense - it's a strategy to ensure we continue to buy stuff even if we don't really need it..

Last time I checked I'm still waiting for my real Tweed Deluxe, Marshall 1959 and Boogie Mk2 to be 'upgraded' for free. Actually no I'm not - they all sound darn amazing as does my Kemper!

Regards,

Si



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klasaine
post Feb 1 2018, 04:07 PM
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Slightly OT but I think its important to remember that a lot of if not all of these high tech music gear companies are started by a musician (not a business man) with an idea about how to fill a niche that has up to that point gone unfilled. They start small, maybe one or two folks building it and voila they have a 'hit'. Many (most) times the quick success gets away from them and then they have quickly figure out a 'real' business model and plan on the fly while they're still building stuff. It can be tough to say the least. Many just fold or sell.


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Mertay
post Feb 1 2018, 07:55 PM
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Maybe the question is when will they stop updating the current Axefx.

If their current software is going to evolve on the new one at least for a while nothing drastic might appear. But If they intend to change the whole algo (like boss ditching cosm) then it might be a considerable upgrade. I curious how they'll use such power.


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Darius Wave
post Feb 1 2018, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jan 30 2018, 09:56 PM) *
I think you'd be surprised. An AxeFX Ultra is a ten-year old model, and sells used for around $700 to $1000 US. Some amps and guitars are especially prized and keep their value of course, but the Ultra has kept its value in the same way most 10-year old amps or guitars have.



Sure but these days we have so called "revolution" - tons of players switching from regular gear to digital complex devices. It's the hype, it's the new and better, it's "everbody switches to it so I have to as well". No hard feelings on this, just giving examples taken from my firends conversations smile.gif Ultra model is kind of "cutting the coupons" of the major success of next models. I think that once they'll start to push the market with regular new models, they will not keep the price as long as the exmaple you just gave. Look at G-major 1 and 2 or....G-Force by T.C. In general I thikn that AXE is not an expensive thing. It' reasonable priced for a top quality product. Trying to collect all it has inside, in a form of stomp devices would probably cost even more money. I'm no AXE enemy, just wondering where all this is going to...smile.gif Tryign to guess if same will happen as in computers and keybaords market smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Feb 1 2018, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 1 2018, 06:55 PM) *
I curious how they'll use such power.


The amp modeling only received slight modifications. Some effects, for example pitch shifting, were enhanced significantly to take advantage of the greater cpu power. The biggest change regarding the cpu is the number of processing modules you can have in a preset. Plus of course there are many changes unrelated to cpu power, for example the ability to name scenes or fading in/out to avoid a silence gap when switching amp channels.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 2 2018, 03:52 AM
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The Line Six product line (pre helix) always had headphone and usb from day one. When the Helix came, it had it too. When the original AXE fx was released, it was a big complaint that it lacked the basic features. But I get that it's a very small shop not a huge company so they have to do what they can with limited staff. They got by with the green screen for far too long imho.
it does seem they want to charge a bit of a crazy premium for now having a color screen. But they can charge whatever the market will bear and as there are more folks that want one than are available, they can pretty much name their price.
It's what many pros use so of course many semi and non pros want one as well and it's a great piece of kit. Did have a bit of sticker shock. But it's supply and demand. However, it's their biz they can run it however they like wink.gif They will sell every single unit they build, can't say that for line 6.

I,m still shocked that the KEMPER has no usb out. Just no excuse for that imho. It's been what, more than 10 years that folks have been waiting for a usb jack? Something even old LIne 6 pod Bean had. But again, they can do whatever they want as they have a HUGE demand for a fairly small amount of produced products. So folks just deal with it. I'm sure they will eventually add one one at some point. Just no excuse not to imho.

I'm not sure why you'd consider a large color screen a waste but to each his own smile.gif I'd consider it a standard bit of kit that any processor over a grand should have. The head rush has a great one ( even though it's a floor unit) the helix has one as well. Being able to see what's happening at a glance seems like a great idea to me. But again to each his own. Some folks love the tiny green display. I hate my tine orange display on the 11 rack, which is why I always use a laptop for the editor.

Todd




QUOTE (Rammikin @ Jan 31 2018, 02:51 PM) *
Only the original Ultra/Std from 10 years ago lacked a headphone jack and USB. Starting with the AxeFX II, all AxeFX models have had a headphone jack and USB. That was several years before the Line6 Helix even existed. Lagging behind competition that doesn't even exist yet would require time travel skills that I'm quite certain are beyond the capabilities of Fractal Audio smile.gif. Kemper on the other hand, in 2018 still does not have USB output.

Personally, I consider the large screen on a rackmount unit to be a waste. The interface I use on a rackmount unit is the editor app, not the device's front panel. And indeed, some people are complaining that the AxeFX III is 3 units high because of a display they consider unnecessarily large. I can see how the large display is important on a floor unit though.




In any case, that's the nature of competition in technology. Competitors don't progress in lock step. Instead, they move forward in a series of leap frog maneuvers.



That is the best feature yet imho. Getting rid of the patch change gap is a think of beauty and I'm sure folks will love it. Smooth patch changes is just awesome.

QUOTE (Rammikin @ Feb 1 2018, 06:28 PM) *
The amp modeling only received slight modifications. Some effects, for example pitch shifting, were enhanced significantly to take advantage of the greater cpu power. The biggest change regarding the cpu is the number of processing modules you can have in a preset. Plus of course there are many changes unrelated to cpu power, for example the ability to name scenes or fading in/out to avoid a silence gap when switching amp channels.



NEVER. As long as they are a company, they will need to refresh their product cycle. Just basic business. I just hope they finally figure out that they are a software company that makes hardware and not a hardware company that uses prorpietary software Sure, there will be piracy. Of course. However, using an ilock will keep a vast amount of folks honest imho and will allow them to increase sales dramatically with very little cost. Once the plugin exists, your hardware costs for the vendor are ZERO. Distributions costs are very small as its' digital and can be dowloaded. The number of folks that would pay vs steal would pack their coffers with cash. With 8 core processors becoming coming, there is plenty of horse power available. or using the Universal audioplatform which uses the same chiips asa the axe fx. They are keeping themself limited by not making a plugin imho. But that just me smile.gif I'm sure other folks think the exact opposite which is fine, feel freel


QUOTE (Mertay @ Feb 1 2018, 02:55 PM) *
Maybe the question is when will they stop updating the current Axefx.

If their current software is going to evolve on the new one at least for a while nothing drastic might appear. But If they intend to change the whole algo (like boss ditching cosm) then it might be a considerable upgrade. I curious how they'll use such power.



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