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> Mono Or Stereo
MONO OR STEREO
Which do you do?
Mono [ 3 ] ** [50.00%]
Stereo [ 1 ] ** [16.67%]
Depends on project [ 2 ] ** [33.33%]
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Phil66
post Apr 12 2018, 11:02 AM
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Hello folks,

Do you record your guitar in stereo, mono, or both, depending on the project?

Please discuss.

Thanks


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Rammikin
post Apr 12 2018, 06:49 PM
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I don't understand the question. If your guitar sound is mono, you should record mono. But if your guitar sound is stereo due to, for example, effects like reverb or stereo delays, you should record stereo.


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Phil66
post Apr 12 2018, 08:12 PM
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Yeah I guess I should have explained more but I was on a quick break and rushed it rolleyes.gif

Whenever I use my DAW I always just select inputs 1 and 2 which are fed from my Helix LT via the left and right outputs so if I am using a mono patch it still records stereo but just two of the same. That way, with my current setup, if I decide to do something creative I can just select a stereo effect and go whereas if I want to swap from stereo to mono I have to remove the right side cable from the Helix LT, not a major ball ache but it's under my desk and I'm lazy sometimes.

Some people use stereo effects but still sum to mono at the end of the chain too so I was wondering what people did.

I have only dipped my toe into the great ocean of recording and I want to start paddling a bit deeper now so I apologise if the question seems dumb, it may be to someone that knows a lot but to me it makes sense, at the moment anyway.

Thanks

This post has been edited by Phil66: Apr 16 2018, 04:17 PM


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Mertay
post Apr 12 2018, 10:08 PM
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Well, thanks to modern recording there really isn't a right or wrong answer but important thing is there has to be a reason for the preferred method.

A friend of mine for example exclusively uses software at home, more for upgrading gear computer specific. Since the recorded signal is dry I guess he feels safe for easy post editing although my guess is he has figured out his personal presets long ago.

I'm for example shy on modulation fx, at least ones that are in connection with the mixing process (maybe not a flanger but reverb for example...). I always wanted to get the amp character outside the box but lately get the cab. part too at least for the solo's. Preferring a (for example) a reverb to be mono or stereo really to me is more about the mix process. I believe an ideal mix must sound preferably as good as in its mono form so this affects my approach.

But this is about taking the project as serious as possible. If I want to record something on a backing track for any reason I'm not so critical so yeah it can also depend on the project.

Edit; I requested some info for the digitech ir cab. pedal in a forum, the guy from digitech said majority of customers used stereo ir's rather than use out 1 ir and out 2 dry.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 12 2018, 10:19 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 13 2018, 03:36 AM
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Are you running your helix in to another recording interface? It's a stereo recording interface by itself yes? Are you using additional microphones on guitar cabs or something that require additional inputs? If not, why not just connect the helix USB to your computer? I often use my 11 rack which shows 8 inputs mono or 4 stereo inputs inside my daw. One set of those has the processing on it. One is dedicated to the XLR jack on the front so that I can record a guitar cab, plus stereo 11 rack processing, plus an unprocessed mono signal on another track which is quite handy. As far as I know the Helix can do the same thing right?

That way I have a clean/dry signal later if I want to run it through OVERLOUD or something and I've got the processed 11 rack sound and the mono signal from the sm57 on the cab.


Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 12 2018, 03:12 PM) *
Yeah I guess I should have explained more but I was on a quick break and rushed it rolleyes.gif

Whenever I use my DAW I always just select inputs 1 and 2 which are fed from my Helix LT via the left and right outputs so if I am using a mono patch it still records stereo but just two of the same. That way, with my current setup, if I decide to do something creative I can just select a stereo effect and go whereas if I want to swap from mono to stereo I have to remove the right side cable from the Helix LT, not a major ball ache but it's under my desk and I'm lazy sometimes.

Some people use stereo effects but still sum to mono at the end of the chain too so I was wondering what people did.

I have only dipped my toe into the great ocean of recording and I want to start paddling a bit deeper now so I apologise if the question seems dumb, it may be to someone that knows a lot but to me it makes sense, at the moment anyway.

Thanks



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Rammikin
post Apr 13 2018, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 12 2018, 07:12 PM) *
Whenever I use my DAW I always just select inputs 1 and 2 which are fed from my Helix LT via the left and right outputs so if I am using a mono patch it still records stereo but just two of the same. That way, with my current setup, if I decide to do something creative I can just select a stereo effect and go whereas if I want to swap from mono to stereo I have to remove the right side cable from the Helix LT, not a major ball ache but it's under my desk and I'm lazy sometimes.




There are definitely better ways to do it than that. Just create a mono track. There's no need to crawl around and pull cables. And why are you recording the analog output? Wouldn't it be better to use digital?


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Phil66
post Apr 13 2018, 07:54 AM
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Thanks everyone, I knew this would raise questions wink.gif

Ok, this is probably all arse about face but here goes, my Scarlet is my soundcard with my monitors plugged into it. I go from my L/R 1/4 into inputs 1 & 2 on the front. I'm thinking of running the 2 xlr outs into those same two inputs and for those times I want to feel the air move I'm thinking of running the 1/4 L out into my amp's return, this will automatically sum to mono as the right hand cable won't be plugged in. The xlr and 1/4 jacks are completely independent from each other so each can be set differently.

I've just tried to record from the USB, Reaper sees the signal and actually records it but I can't hear anything, even on playback but I can hear YouTube vids etc. I've tried messing with the ASIO settings and the computer record/playback devices but I couldn't get it to work. As I've said in previous posts, cable routing frazzles my brain, I can just about hook up a dvd player to a tv smile.gif

Ideally I'd like to record my wet sound and a dry sound. Mertay helped me with this before when I asked about re-amping but this is a bit different now, I think huh.gif I struggle to record dry and add effects later as I find the effected sound is what inspires they way you play a certain piece.

I hope this enlightens everyone. Apologies for my lack of knowledge in this area.

Thanks for your time everyone wink.gif



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Mertay
post Apr 13 2018, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 13 2018, 06:54 AM) *
...


The moment you use the helix with USB it will replace your soundcards role, so you have to select helix as the soundcard from reaper, maybe you didn't install its driver thats why you couldn't see that in the asio menu? but before this lets solve your chain request as I suspect the soundcard is needed and I'd like to avoid loading an extra driver to a system thats currently working fine.

Could you simplify your target chain? I'm guess you would like;

1+2 (stereo) from helix to soundcard
3 mono from Helix to mono amp line out to soundcard
4 dry guitar signal

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 13 2018, 09:46 AM


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Phil66
post Apr 13 2018, 10:07 AM
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Thanks Mertay,

I can see Helix in asio4all. I've recorded via USB before when e looked at re-amping.

Anyway,
1 + 2 stereo (XLR or USB)
3 mono 1/4 to amp return, probably won't record from the emulated out.
4 dry signal

I also want to put my Digitech Trio + into the Helix LT fx loop as at the moment it has to always be switched on as my guitar signal goes through it. I can't remember how it's hooked up right now but I think the guitar goes in and then from Trio to Helix input. Also a cable goes to the Scarlett to hear the drums and bass. We can do that last though.

Cheers


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Rammikin
post Apr 13 2018, 02:24 PM
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The reason you can't hear the hellix is because you don't have monitoring turned on in your DAW. Just do that and you'll be able to both record and monitor. Alternatively you can route USB to your DAW for recording and a different Helix output to your monitors. That way you'll be able to hear the Helix without monitoring through your DAW.


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Mertay
post Apr 13 2018, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 13 2018, 09:07 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

I can see Helix in asio4all. I've recorded via USB before when e looked at re-amping.

Anyway,
1 + 2 stereo (XLR or USB)
3 mono 1/4 to amp return, probably won't record from the emulated out.
4 dry signal

I also want to put my Digitech Trio + into the Helix LT fx loop as at the moment it has to always be switched on as my guitar signal goes through it. I can't remember how it's hooked up right now but I think the guitar goes in and then from Trio to Helix input. Also a cable goes to the Scarlett to hear the drums and bass. We can do that last though.

Cheers


Cool, as I see it we'll need to use the soundcard anyway (it had 4 inputs as far as I remember);

-helix XLR outs to soundcard 1+2 is ok

-Could you explain me why the helix 1/4 L out is going to the amp return then to the soundcard? Maybe we could integrate the preamp of peavey (L out to amp input)?

-As far as I remember you had a signal splitter (radial?) you could split the guitars signal with that and use the soundcards input 4 for direct recording.

-As for the trio, since the helix has 2 fx loops we'll connect it to the unused one...let me know if I've missed anything...

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 13 2018, 02:55 PM


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Phil66
post Apr 13 2018, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Apr 13 2018, 02:24 PM) *
The reason you can't hear the hellix is because you don't have monitoring turned on in your DAW. Just do that and you'll be able to both record and monitor. Alternatively you can route USB to your DAW for recording and a different Helix output to your monitors. That way you'll be able to hear the Helix without monitoring through your DAW.


I tried switching monitoring on and off to no avail. I'll try again though. Must be me rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 13 2018, 02:35 PM) *
-Could you explain me why the helix 1/4 L out is going to the amp return then to the soundcard?


It isn't, I just want to use the amp. I won't use the emulated out for recording.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 13 2018, 02:35 PM) *
-As far as I remember you had a signal splitter (radial?) you could split the guitars signal with that and use the soundcards input 4 for direct recording.


Yeah, at the moment it's sending the guitar to the Trio and to the #4 input on the soundcard, I had forgotten this until now huh.gif

QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 13 2018, 02:35 PM) *
-As for the trio, since the helix has 2 fx loops we'll connect it to the unused one...let me know if I've missed anything...


Yeah, I'm not using any of the fx loops at the moment.

Cheers





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Mertay
post Apr 13 2018, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 13 2018, 01:58 PM) *
...


Ok lets see how things go when you try the advices, then we can try integrating the Peavey to the helix (with a setup where you won't need to deal with cables too much).


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Phil66
post Apr 13 2018, 08:57 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I can't see the Peavey being a problem. When I want to play through my amp alone, I'll just switch off the cab sim or IR.

My main worry is that I can't see how to get a dry sound going in, I think I'll need to use the Helix USB for that but it messes everything else up sad.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: Apr 13 2018, 09:11 PM


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Mertay
post Apr 13 2018, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 13 2018, 07:57 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I can't see the Peavey being a problem. When I want to play through my amp alone, I'll just switch off the cab sim or IR.

My main worry is that I can't see how to get a dry sound going in, I think I'll need to use the Helix USB for that but it messes everything else up sad.gif


Well you could make a preset in the helix where instead of helix amps the peavey is the amp (with helix stereo fx ir cab.s), with the extra 1/4 line out and helix extra fx return this should be possible but then it will be either helix amps or peavey not both for stereo fx.

I'm not sure if the helix can manage more than 2 outputs to computer from USB thats why we'll need the soundcard. But we'll need something to split the signal of the dry guitar out.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Apr 13 2018, 10:05 PM


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Phil66
post Apr 14 2018, 09:28 AM
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Helix has 8 channels of USB. I want to keep the interface anyway because it's handy for volume control for both speakers and headphones.

There is a way to put a split in the chain, a,/b or Y and another I think but I haven't used it, I think you can send from the split to the different outputs including the computer but I need to check that out. If I can get the Trio into the fx loop I can use the Twin City to send the dry signal.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Apr 14 2018, 09:41 AM


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Phil66
post Apr 14 2018, 09:05 PM
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Grrrrr, got to get some more cables, I let someone borrow my XLRs and I haven't seen them (the person or the cables) for a long long time.

Oh well, a few days delay it will have to be sad.gif


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Mertay
post Apr 14 2018, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 14 2018, 08:05 PM) *
Grrrrr, got to get some more cables, I let someone borrow my XLRs and I haven't seen them (the person or the cables) for a long long time.

Oh well, a few days delay it will have to be sad.gif


No need to rush smile.gif Your system works fine for your current needs so bump the topic whenever things are comfortable for you.


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 15 2018, 04:30 AM
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it sounds like you are just using the focusrite as a volume knob correct? You can get a USB volume knob for $20 and then let your HELIX be the center of your home studio as it's a bit better piece of kit to be the core of your setup as compared to the scarlett. Here is the knob

https://www.ebay.com/i/162951316341?chn=ps
Attached Image

As for the Helix, you can use it to record digitally via USB and get a stereo FX track of your HELIX patch, then record a dry/clean mono output assigned to another track, put your trio in the fx loop of the helix like you mentioned, The only thing you can't do is use a mic on your guitar cab and run that in to the helix lt as it doesn't have xlr inputs as far as I'm aware? But honestly, at bedroom volume, and having the amp in the same room as the monitors, you are better off not recording an actual amp but instead using a helix patch and then recording a dry as well so that you can reamp with either plugins or the helix at any point during the mix.

This is the typical all digital/usb multi track approach that is commonly used by folks with nice processors that can handle this type of thing.

it sounds like you are just having a configuration problem inside reaper that is preventing you from hearing what is going on. I don't have an LT and dont run windows/asio, but I'm sure someone here can help sort that out so that you can use the better audio engine in the helix instead of running out to analogue into a lesser bit of kit just to get the signal to the computer. Of course, this is all just one way of doing it. If the way you are doing it is working for you then, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" smile.gif

i use my 11r in much the same way. Stereo processed signal goes to a stereo track, dry clean signal goes to a separate mono track in the daw, and the 4x12 cab / SM57 mic goes to the XLR on the front of the 11r and to another mono track in the daw. This yields one stereo and two mono tracks and gives wads of flexibility during mixdown. It helps to put the cab in another room of course, but once I sharpie the setttings on the amp driving the cab, I can move it back to the mix position.

I am using a separate audio interface for output to my monitors though. The iconnectivity 4+ is connected to my KRK monitors and LOGICX lets me use 11r for input and Iconnectivity4+ for output which is very handy.

I just read all this back and I even confused myself. I hope I didn't make things worse for ya smile.gif

Todd

Todd




QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 14 2018, 04:28 AM) *
Helix has 8 channels of USB. I want to keep the interface anyway because it's handy for volume control for both speakers and headphones.

There is a way to put a split in the chain, a,/b or Y and another I think but I haven't used it, I think you can send from the split to the different outputs including the computer but I need to check that out. If I can get the Trio into the fx loop I can use the Twin City to send the dry signal.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Apr 15 2018, 04:31 AM


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Phil66
post Apr 15 2018, 05:41 PM
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Thanks Todd,

I don't see how to control input levels etc just using the Helix. I have knobs with halo lights around them on the Scarlett. I also like the Scarlett mic control to balance output when playing along with backing etc.

The Scarlett has independent headphone level control with mute for the speakers so it's handy.

Occasionally I dabble with recording one of my acoustic guitars so I need a mic input (I guess I could swap the LT for the big brother).

Maybe I'm just going about it all wrong or maybe I should start again from scratch.

I think for now, I'd like the best of both worlds if it's possible, to be able to use Helix LT and/or Scarlett until I decide to go all Helix in which case I'll upgrade to the full blown Helix.

Cheers

Phil

UPDATE:

I just don't know how I have this set up huh.gif I don't have time this evening and still have to get another XLR cable but, Guitar into Boss TU-3, into Twin-City then two cables out of Twin City A & B, the Trio has a cable in the FX Return and one in the FX send. Out of the "amp" socket on the Trio goes into Scarlett 1, a cable from somewhere goes into Scarlett 2, Scarlett 1 & 2 work in perfect stereo from the Helix which I don't understand as the cable into Scarlett 1 comes straight from the Trio. A cable goes into Scarlett 3 and gives a completely dry sound, I think this must come from the Twin City. Mixer out of Trio goes into Scarlett 4 (this is the drum and bass). The cables are all behind a board at the back of my desk so I really need to pull them all out and start again so this project, unless I can just modify settings on my computer, will take a while and might be one of those things I keep putting off, unless, as I said, I can just modify settings on the computer.

My brain is as scrambled as the cables are wacko.gif . I must have set it up right as I am getting full stereo effects from the Helix but I just can't see how when the left channel (Scarlett 1) is direct from the Trio+


UPDATE 2:

I can record from the Helix, I can't see what I've done differently as I haven't messed with settings. I can play back too but the playback goes through the Scarlett 1+2 as well as the normal route, whatever that is. When I play back, I can turn the Scarlettt 1+2 right down and hear the track perfectly, if I turn up 1+2, I can increase it until it is clipping, it's like it is re-routing the signal back through the Scarlett.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Apr 15 2018, 09:08 PM


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