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> Entire Digitech/dod Team Are Reportedly Fired
Mertay
post May 11 2018, 01:26 PM
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https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarpedals/comme...utm_term=8idu0y


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Todd Simpson
post May 12 2018, 01:37 AM
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The last thing I liked was the GNX3 which started as the JSTATION then GENESIS 1/2/3 then 2101/2120 and GNX1/2/3/4. After that they changed algos and all of their stuff (Whammy not included) started sounding cheap imho.

Nail in the coffin was the lack of software support. While Line6 and others have full software apps mac/pc to control most devices, digitech not so much. They had a PC app or two. Nothing really mac and nothing software only!! Line 6 at least had pod farm. So an unwillingness to change with the times, and cheaper sounding units, just killed em imho.

Maybe someone will buy up the bits and make it part of some other company? I still have my gnx3 and it still sounds better than the POD XT I had for a while and the pod HD, in terms of high gain amps. The gnx still sound good. You can pick up one for about a hundred bucks and it's a pedal board unit so you dont have to buy a midi controller.

Todd
QUOTE (Mertay @ May 11 2018, 08:26 AM) *


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Rammikin
post May 12 2018, 02:47 AM
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I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with how successful their products have been recently. They're on a roll lately with some awesome pedals. In other words, I don't think this is because they underperformed. It must have something to do with a strategic decision by Harman that they simply do not want to be in the digital processor business.


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Mertay
post May 12 2018, 09:38 AM
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+1, the pedals they released may not be best sellers but nothing less than awesome.

As for processors, yeah they lost their edge sometime ago. The cheap stuff I never and still don't like but the upper units (rp1000 and specially GSP1101) me sounded great but had problems on other aspects.

Here's a demo of my rp12 which basically thought me almost everything I needed, thanks to this device I was a quick learner when studying audio engineering (and I still have it);



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klasaine
post May 12 2018, 02:50 PM
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Harmon International (formerly in the US, Harmon/Kardon, owner of Digitech/DOD) is a subsidiary of Samsung. That should tell you all you need to know.


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Todd Simpson
post May 12 2018, 08:38 PM
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Can you please elucidate on your thoughts? Particularly as to why the ownership should tell us all we need to know? I"m not sure what you are trying to say?

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 12 2018, 09:50 AM) *
Harmon International (formerly in the US, Harmon/Kardon, owner of Digitech/DOD) is a subsidiary of Samsung. That should tell you all you need to know.


Gibson was really slow to enter the software space as a compliment to it's guitar business. I think this really hurt them. As the industry moved towards software/plugins, they sorta didn't. BTW what were these killer pedals? They still have their flagship guitar product, the les paul. They should emerge from bankruptcy with cash in hand and in better shape. financially. So it's honestly probably for the best. They are going back to being a guitar company. They have a storied history and they had spread themselves a little thin before now.

This quote sums it up pretty well

"While there are secular trends affecting guitar sales, some of Gibson’s financial problems have been self-inflicted. The decision to place its G FORCE automatic string tuner in its 2015 electric guitars was widely believed to be a failure with long-lasting implications."
https://www.pollstar.com/article/while-my-g...nkruptcy-134620
The "secular trends affecting sales" did not help matters. Then the enforced "G Force" didn't help either.

Still, I do think it's all for the best. They are going to finally get rid of all their baggage in areas they don't compete well in, hopefully kill of G FORCE and get back to making good instruments. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 12 2018, 08:40 PM


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klasaine
post May 12 2018, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 12 2018, 12:38 PM) *
Can you please elucidate on your thoughts? Particularly as to why the ownership should tell us all we need to know? I"m not sure what you are trying to say?


Electric guitar effects are probably one of the smallest niche markets there is.
Samsung makes phones, appliances and TVs and has world market share somewhere in the top 3 in all of those categories. Digitech/DOD is probably more of an annoyance and waste of space and resources from their perspective.

This post has been edited by klasaine: May 13 2018, 12:04 AM


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Mertay
post May 13 2018, 12:40 AM
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They bought Harmon specially for car sound solutions in mind.


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klasaine
post May 13 2018, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 12 2018, 04:40 PM) *
They bought Harmon specially for car sound solutions in mind.


Exactly.
Not 'guitar' sound solutions.


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Todd Simpson
post May 13 2018, 02:51 AM
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Ahh! Now I get you smile.gif Yup. Well said.


QUOTE (klasaine @ May 12 2018, 06:24 PM) *
Electric guitar effects are probably one of the smallest niche markets there is.
Samsung makes phones, appliances and TVs and has world market share somewhere in the top 3 in all of those categories. Digitech/DOD is probably more of an annoyance and waste of space and resources from their perspective.



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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 16 2018, 12:20 AM
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My worst device ever was from this brand. It was my first multiFX, Digitech RP6, it was more time being repaired than sounding...

If I'm not wrong, they were pionners with the "amp emulator" effect. My pedalboard had Amp Emulator option. It's curious to see how they couldn't adapt to new technologies...



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Todd Simpson
post May 17 2018, 01:23 AM
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They made some really awful stuff along the way. Just found out the guy who started Digitech is John Johnson and he sold it in 1991. They branded some gear "Johnson Amplification" to make it seem more boutique as the prices on the millenium amp were steep. That company folded, and the guts of those amps became the entire digitech line. Johnson came back in 2013 with the RP series which IMHO sounded AWFUL and killed digtech. All their multi fx stuff by then was terrible.

From the Millenium amp (First modelling amp combo) Eventually, the GNX1/2/3/4 came along and that was the peak of their gear IMHO. Everything after has been pretty horrible in terms of multi fx pedals. They got cheap and started using cheaper chips, crappy algos, etc. It's not hard to tell when a pedal sounds terrible and sales went down. They sorta did it to themselves.

People still seek out the rack mount 2120 and 2112 on ebay, great tube EQ and other fx built in. But yeah, you mention some of the worst ones out of a line that was mostly bad after the GNX4.

This is the control section of the johnson Millenium which one of the first multi fx amps (no cab modelling)

Attached Image

Digitech bought them and made that in to their rack mount unit which was in wads of touring racks back in the day.
Attached Image

Even the GNX3 had a similar control layout. It was the gnx series that was their last good products.
Attached Image

This is a vid of the very old GENESIS 3 series from digitech, desktop version of the gnx line. Same "Amp warp (morph two amps)" which what made it spiff. I still like trying old processors. smile.gif




I really think it was their complete lack of software options that helped kill them. Line 6 had the pod farm, digitech had NOTHING stand alone at all in terms of software. Market shift to software was just ignored.

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 15 2018, 07:20 PM) *
My worst device ever was from this brand. It was my first multiFX, Digitech RP6, it was more time being repaired than sounding...

If I'm not wrong, they were pionners with the "amp emulator" effect. My pedalboard had Amp Emulator option. It's curious to see how they couldn't adapt to new technologies...


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 17 2018, 02:07 AM


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klasaine
post May 17 2018, 02:12 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 16 2018, 05:23 PM) *
They made some really awful stuff along the way.


Very true.
But they also made this ...

Attached Image

Arguably one the most innovative and influential effects since the wah-wah pedal.


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Rammikin
post May 17 2018, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 12 2018, 08:38 AM) *
+1, the pedals they released may not be best sellers but nothing less than awesome.


I think their recent awesome products have been best sellers. They've put out digital processing gear that nobody else can touch, like the Mosaic, Drop, and Freqout which have been very popular. Sometimes it isn't enough to be successful.


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Mertay
post May 17 2018, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ May 17 2018, 05:03 AM) *
I think their recent awesome products have been best sellers. They've put out digital processing gear that nobody else can touch, like the Mosaic, Drop, and Freqout which have been very popular. Sometimes it isn't enough to be successful.


Oh category-wise I agree, they took good care on that department. What I meant more was like they never had a ds1 or ts9 type best seller product.

Thinking of the past from what I remember the bad monkey was the only real hit they came up with, I didn't see many dod250's (maybe they should have modded it too) although its a legendary pedal. I also liked their hardwire pedals but probably they didn't market it well and got discontinued too soon, great pedals in the used market today.

To me the problem was they focused too much on low-end gear and specially when brands from China started taking over they couldn't compete. I also see this today with Joyo, they were everywhere 1-2 years ago but I don't hear anything new from them. This teels me every brand eventually must have high to low-end options on their product line.

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 17 2018, 02:18 PM


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Rammikin
post May 17 2018, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 17 2018, 01:13 PM) *
Oh category-wise I agree, they took good care on that department. What I meant more was like they never had a ds1 or ts9 type best seller product.


These days, nobody does, not even Boss or Ibanez smile.gif.


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Todd Simpson
post May 18 2018, 01:55 AM
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Very true! I think I mentioned that along the way as a great piece. May have been another thread though, mostly been talking about multi fx here. But yeah, that's a great bit of gear.
QUOTE (klasaine @ May 16 2018, 09:12 PM) *
Very true.
But they also made this ...

Attached Image

Arguably one the most innovative and influential effects since the wah-wah pedal.


The multi fx thing was the bread and butter of the company for years. The RP line came in and sucked so bad that it killed off that market segment for them. Then, to add insult to injury, they ignored the software space entirely. No such thing as POD FARM in the digitech universe. So the main revenue stream dries up from sucky product, no software plugins/stand alones to keep up with other vendors, equals, DEATH. sad.gif
QUOTE (Mertay @ May 17 2018, 09:13 AM) *
Oh category-wise I agree, they took good care on that department. What I meant more was like they never had a ds1 or ts9 type best seller product.

Thinking of the past from what I remember the bad monkey was the only real hit they came up with, I didn't see many dod250's (maybe they should have modded it too) although its a legendary pedal. I also liked their hardwire pedals but probably they didn't market it well and got discontinued too soon, great pedals in the used market today.

To me the problem was they focused too much on low-end gear and specially when brands from China started taking over they couldn't compete. I also see this today with Joyo, they were everywhere 1-2 years ago but I don't hear anything new from them. This teels me every brand eventually must have high to low-end options on their product line.


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Mertay
post May 18 2018, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 18 2018, 12:55 AM) *
The multi fx thing was the bread and butter of the company for years. The RP line came in and sucked so bad that it killed off that market segment for them. Then, to add insult to injury, they ignored the software space entirely. No such thing as POD FARM in the digitech universe. So the main revenue stream dries up from sucky product, no software plugins/stand alones to keep up with other vendors, equals, DEATH. sad.gif


The first rp was released in 1991 or 92, POD and ampfarm (protools only) was released in 1998. I think the GNX series came out to compete with the POD (till then only Boss and Zoom were competitors). Then came the new Gen RP's you mention but to my knowledge Line6 is unique to give plug-in versions of their emulations even today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ipl0RATqBs&t=39s

This product to me sums-up what went wrong, if they adapted ir cab. loading back then it would be the Helix of today. They weren't totally clueless on what the market wanted but adapted badly.


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Rammikin
post May 18 2018, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 18 2018, 09:47 AM) *
to my knowledge Line6 is unique to give plug-in versions of their emulations even today.


Positive Grid does something similar, but the idea of having a software version of a hardware amp modeler is a risky experiment by Line6, and most hardware modeler makers are firmly convinced that offering a software version would kill their business.




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Todd Simpson
post May 18 2018, 06:18 PM
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There are wads of guitar plugins. I mention pod farm just as an example, there has been Guitar Rig for quite some time and Amplitube. Digitech never really tried anything like that which really cost them imho.

The first RP was somewhat ground breaking as it was early to be a multi fx floor pedal. IT's the later RP I"m talking about that killed it for them as they changed chips, changed algos and the sound was just bad. So combine never making a software product, (guitar rig/amplitube/pod farm/etc) and replacing the good sounding GNX line with the new crap RP line, together, those things are what I think really killed it.Here is a demo of one of the new RP. Notice the high gain tone. Uggh.


QUOTE (Mertay @ May 18 2018, 05:47 AM) *
The first rp was released in 1991 or 92, POD and ampfarm (protools only) was released in 1998. I think the GNX series came out to compete with the POD (till then only Boss and Zoom were competitors). Then came the new Gen RP's you mention but to my knowledge Line6 is unique to give plug-in versions of their emulations even today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ipl0RATqBs&t=39s

This product to me sums-up what went wrong, if they adapted ir cab. loading back then it would be the Helix of today. They weren't totally clueless on what the market wanted but adapted badly.


It didn't seem to kill line 6 helix sales just because they made a plugin version of it. More boutique vendors have stayed away, (axe fx/kemper). I think they are giving up a huge market share by not making software plugin versions personally. It sure hasn't killed line 6, but seems to have provided them with dual revenue streams. They sell plenty of helix machines and sell plenty of plugins. I have heard that argument though for years and it must have some basis in the minds of the axe/kemper companies as they sure have stayed away from software. But they are much smaller than line 6 just in terms of scale.

Still, even Friedman has licensed their tone and Engl and Orange, to be made in to native plugins. I honestly think if axe/kemper would make some plugin version of theirs that it could expand their market share greatly, but they don't think so or they would have done it already smile.gif

QUOTE (Rammikin @ May 18 2018, 08:42 AM) *
Positive Grid does something similar, but the idea of having a software version of a hardware amp modeler is a risky experiment by Line6, and most hardware modeler makers are firmly convinced that offering a software version would kill their business.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 18 2018, 06:18 PM


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