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DRBguitar09
post Aug 19 2007, 09:33 AM
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Hey Ben I've been wanting to join my schools jazz band for a while on guitar but i really dont have any idea where to start.. i do have some jazz theory becuase ive played jazz trumpet for about four years or so but with guitar i just dont really know where to begin...
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Ben Howell
post Aug 19 2007, 08:46 PM
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Hello DRBguitar09!

This is a tough one.

Jazz is very different to other styles of music. Its is heavily based on chord change and modulation (changing to another key).

When soloing it is standard practice to 'play the changes' i.e. aiming for chord tones. That way people can hear the chords being spelt out in your soloing as the chords go by.

You cant get by by approaching jazz soloing as you would in rock, much of rock music is diatonic (belonging to a key) and thus it is common to use just one scale for soloing-namely minor pentatonic or Aeolian mode (extension of minor pentatonic).

Thus you have to know your scales inside out, in ALL keys.

Jazz harmony (chords and progressions) are based on the ii-V-I sequence. This is the two chord, the 5 chord and the root chord of any key.

So in C major that would be Dmin7-G7-Cmaj7.

Note that the chords are all '7th' (minor major and dominant)-you dont see many triads (3 note chords) in jazz, as a general rule.

For starters i would buy a 'Real book'. This is a book with all the popular standards in and it will show you the chord symbols commonly used-look out for the ii-V-I progression. You will also see liberal use of altered tones-chords with a raised or flat 5 or 9 i.e. Gb9b5, Dmin7b5, G7#9 etc.

Check out my first jazz lesson which will hopefully reinstate some of the info ive given here.

Hope this helps,

-Ben


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DRBguitar09
post Aug 19 2007, 09:46 PM
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ok thanks for the help i will
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Ben Howell
post Aug 19 2007, 11:06 PM
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Hi DRBguitar,

Something ive got to add is to practise chords.
Most of your work in a jazz band will be 'comping' (backing chords to sax etc) so you have to be able to read standard chord changes and know all the: 'd.s. al coda' signs etc.

Good luck with it-jazz is an exciting road to take!

-Ben


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 12:31 AM
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+1 for the need to know I VI II V I.

Also in a big jazz band when you comp on a guitar you often do not play the full voicing for the chord. Because jazz uses extended chords so much comping in a big band often involves accentuating/underlining the extension by comping on the top four/five strings and leaving the root note to the bass player. If you have enough time maybe look in to/brush up in voice leading harmonisation.

For solos as Ben says you really do need to know your scales inside and out. Knowing the arpeggios that relate to particular chords is also a big help. A great example - but one that is bloody hard to pull off (at least I fond it bloody hard) - is Coltraine's Giant Steps - fast and with a lot of movement. A really good example of a great guitar playing here is Mike Stern's version. If you have all this down already then think about chord substitutions, rhythm, chromatics, leading tones, articulation, octaving, Lenny Breau type harmonics, sequencing, playing 'outside' and so on - the list goes on and on.

Cheers,
Tony


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Ben Howell
post Aug 20 2007, 01:18 AM
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Great post Tony, youre absolutely spot on.

Like Tony said, watch out for 'block' chords-the bass players take care of the roots in traditional jazz so you are left to play from the 3rd up, and the extensions.

-Ben


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 01:54 AM
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Thanks Ben - and sorry for butting in.

Here's a link to Giant Steps for any who might not have heard or those who just love listening to it smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Ben Howell
post Aug 20 2007, 01:59 AM
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No problem Tony, some great information you listed smile.gif

I love that youtube video, must have taken a long time to make!

-Ben


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 20 2007, 02:07 AM
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QUOTE (benhowell @ Aug 19 2007, 08:59 PM) *
No problem Tony, some great information you listed smile.gif

I love that youtube video, must have taken a long time to make!

-Ben


Cool song, and amazing video smile.gif I love Jazz, just wish I could play it ... well with a lot of practice I could probably comp ok, but lead? Noooooo!

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Aug 20 2007, 02:08 AM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 02:08 AM
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It's good for practicing your sight reading to wink.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Ben Howell
post Aug 20 2007, 02:12 AM
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Andrew-you could play jazz!

I actually find playing lead lines for jazz way easier than for metal etc in essense, maybe not on the fly!

We will get you doing some burning lines! cool.gif

-Ben


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 02:36 AM
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+1: jazz chordal stuff is muy dificil. And some of the stretches for extended voicings are, well geting the fingers down and in time laugh.gif ...

Solo comes easier I think if you listen to sax lines a bit and maybe practice those. (Or maybe that's because I'm not so much a guitar player as a frustrated sax player wink.gif )

Cheers,
Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 20 2007, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 19 2007, 09:36 PM) *
+1: jazz chordal stuff is muy dificil. And some of the stretches for extended voicings are, well geting the fingers down and in time laugh.gif ...

Solo comes easier I think if you listen to sax lines a bit and maybe practice those. (Or maybe that's because I'm not so much a guitar player as a frustrated sax player wink.gif )

Cheers,
Tony


Well, I'm definstely up for it smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 03:23 AM
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I'll try and put up a I II VI V I chordal progression on the collaborations Andrew. Not sure when though but hopefully not too long. Then any one interested can have a go at blowing over the changes.

Cheers,
Tony


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Muris Varajic
post Aug 20 2007, 03:31 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 20 2007, 04:23 AM) *
I'll try and put up a I II VI V I chordal progression on the collaborations Andrew. Not sure when though but hopefully not too long. Then any one interested can have a go at blowing over the changes.

Cheers,
Tony



Thumbs up for that Tony!!!!!! biggrin.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 20 2007, 03:49 AM
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Just don't hold your breath waiting - I'm notorious for taking my time (ok for procrastinating) tongue.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


Just don't hold your breath waiting - I'm notorious for taking my time (ok for procrastinating) tongue.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 20 2007, 04:01 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 19 2007, 10:23 PM) *
I'll try and put up a I II VI V I chordal progression on the collaborations Andrew. Not sure when though but hopefully not too long. Then any one interested can have a go at blowing over the changes.

Cheers,
Tony


Cool smile.gif


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Live long and prosper ...

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DRBguitar09
post Aug 20 2007, 04:54 AM
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thanks for all the help guys.. any suggestions on what books i could get to help me understand more clearly cuz some of this is overwhelming at times and its still hard for me to get the universal picture of how everything works...
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Ben Howell
post Aug 20 2007, 05:34 AM
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There are some fantastic books on jazz by Jody Fisher, published by the guitar workshop.

Some of the best books i have come across on jazz.

The thing you have to remember is that all of this is based on western music, jazz, fusion (mainly), and rock. The thing that differentiates the styles is:

-Rhythm
-Harmony/Chord progressions
-Chord types
-Dynamics
-Tone
-Soloing/scale choice

These are the things that generally define a genre. The key is just adopting your approach to each genre.

-Ben

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DRBguitar09
post Aug 20 2007, 12:16 PM
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ok thanks i wiil def. check them out smile.gif
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