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Great Demo On Picking Proper And Improper
Todd Simpson
Apr 30 2021, 10:37 PM
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This is from a interview vid with paul gilbert. The interviewer tries his hand at a paul gilbert lick. He doesn't quite do it correctly and so it sounds a bit wrong. i thought it would make a very good illustration on technique. Here is the original interview.



Forgive the poor quality of vid but it's what was in the original. I focused in on Paul's picking hand and on the interviewer. Paul is up first. Notice how his palm mute is solid and doesn't drift or change. Then the interviewer does almost a 'picking from the elbow" thing and doesn't mute properly with the left hand. His entire hand is moving the entire time. At this pace, paul is only moving the pick with his thumb/finger. As a result, the two licks sound very different. Same notes, different approach. Pauls sounds very percussive and shreddy. At the same speed, the other one doesn't sound very shreddy. Can you see/hear the difference?

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Apr 30 2021, 10:37 PM
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Mertay
Apr 30 2021, 10:58 PM
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He does a terrible job on explaining (good example good player but bad teacher) but its camera angles should be helpful

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jstcrsn
May 1 2021, 01:08 AM
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Here is GG picking slightly different and it will be for every different hand with different muscles , Itis up to you to find which style works best for you, which of course means practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51OMFYGG-fs&t=423s

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Todd Simpson
May 1 2021, 06:14 AM
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That's actually NOT Paul Gilbert style picking, but more 'PICKING FROM THE ELBOW" which I honestly suggest that people avoid. still, to each his own.
QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Apr 30 2021, 08:08 PM) *
Here is GG picking slightly different and it will be for every different hand with different muscles , Itis up to you to find which style works best for you, which of course means practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51OMFYGG-fs&t=423s



This is much closer to how I suggest that folks play when trying to increase speed. Good find! He does a bit too much thumb articulation for my taste but it's a very functional approach that is based on planting the palm and using half of hand for most of the pick articulation which is the approach that I suggest as well. It's not really about picking from the wrist forward as it's about picking from the thumb/first finger "back" towards the wrist. One can get quite a bit of speed up in this manner and it doesn't overly tax the hand and barely uses any wrist and zero arm.

As a result, it's possible to keep this up for a very long period of time at speed. That's why I suggest this approach. it's very efficient for the hand and so it won't burn out the hand during long practice sessions. After all, one needs to be able to practice for about an hour without burning out the hand or one can't get enough time in to up serious speed/precision over a series of practice sessions.

Still, I do suggest "burst" speed for getting the hand ready for what is to come. Attacking it from above (faster than one can play) and below (slower than one can play but very precise) is a good way to find speed by meeting in the middle smile.gif


QUOTE (Mertay @ Apr 30 2021, 05:58 PM) *




He does a terrible job on explaining (good example good player but bad teacher) but its camera angles should be helpful

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Mertay
May 1 2021, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 1 2021, 05:14 AM) *
...


I did tried out not long ago the video I shared to get the idea.

It's a bit hard to explain (as he couldn't/wouldn't either) but the thumb movement my conclusion was more like giving the pick an angle rather than pick with it. I mean you do that so the pick sort of slides better on the string to improve speed but the feel is very close to almost trying to pick with it if that makes sense...

But aside his explanations confused me more than being helpful, the pinky placement was a helpful starting point (later ofcourse can be removed if more comfortable).

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jstcrsn
May 1 2021, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 1 2021, 06:14 AM) *
That's actually NOT Paul Gilbert style picking, but more 'PICKING FROM THE ELBOW" which I honestly suggest that people avoid. still, to each his own.


smile.gif

I understand pauls style and for most would agree , but for some they will pick different than others and if they fail cause they can't pick like you and all they needed to do was try a slightly different style , would you rather have them give up cause they can't pick like you or find a style in which they can excel at?

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Todd Simpson
May 3 2021, 03:47 AM
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I never said anything like that of course. I just said I encourage people to avoid picking from the elbow and it's true I do try to show people another way. It's natural to stiffen up and pick from the elbow but I find it actually gets in the way more than it helps.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 1 2021, 09:32 AM) *
I understand pauls style and for most would agree , but for some they will pick different than others and if they fail cause they can't pick like you and all they needed to do was try a slightly different style , would you rather have them give up cause they can't pick like you or find a style in which they can excel at?

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Gabriel Leopardi
May 3 2021, 04:23 PM
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Great thread Todd! Some thoughts...

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Mertay
May 3 2021, 05:23 PM
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Actually I think I'm rather comfortable with this technique. About a month ago explained this to a friend of mine (video wasn't mean't to be shared, sorry for the messy table and cloths, smile.gif ) ;




What I'm saying in Turkish is; I hope you can hear this. You should be able to do this forever (be very relaxed) despite I'm a bit stiffer than normal cause of holding the phone.

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Gabriel Leopardi
May 3 2021, 06:16 PM
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Cool Mertay! I can't see if you are starting it from your wrist or elbow but it really works!

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jstcrsn
May 3 2021, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 3 2021, 05:23 PM) *
Actually I think I'm rather comfortable with this technique. About a month ago explained this to a friend of mine (video wasn't mean't to be shared, sorry for the messy table and cloths, smile.gif ) ;




What I'm saying in Turkish is; I hope you can hear this. You should be able to do this forever (be very relaxed) despite I'm a bit stiffer than normal cause of holding the phone.

so for clarification , you were picking from elbow or not

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Mertay
May 3 2021, 06:38 PM
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We could say shaking wrist (wrist is almost completely loose) from elbow but if done wrong my elbow stiffens rather quickly. To prevent that one must give a little power from the shoulder too.

So while shaking the wrist, if any specific muscle starts stiffening concentrate on relaxing it and distribute any missing power from a different muscle.



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jstcrsn
May 3 2021, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 3 2021, 06:38 PM) *
We could say shaking wrist (wrist is almost completely loose) from elbow but if done wrong my elbow stiffens rather quickly. To prevent that one must give a little power from the shoulder too.

So while shaking the wrist, if any specific muscle starts stiffening concentrate on relaxing it and distribute any missing power from a different muscle.

would you say there would be some situations that this style might be the only way some (not many) may be able to play?

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Mertay
May 3 2021, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 3 2021, 07:44 PM) *
would you say there would be some situations that this style might be the only way some (not many) may be able to play?


I used to play all my speedy stuff using the shoulder as probably everyone did. Any problem wasn't apparent as all the stuff I studied were short exercises or (full or parts of) solo's.

When I had a band at high-school we started working on a solo where I played something fast, after the 3rd repeat of the song I realized my arm had gotten too stiff which made me consider stuff like how do the famous technical guitarists keep-up with this for an entire concert...

So durability concerns were my reason at the time for such experimenting.

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Todd Simpson
May 3 2021, 11:29 PM
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Great stuff thanks gabe!! As for advantage, I think he is doing a bit more finger articulation that I usually do, but I do some finger articulation like his. Have a look at this video. You can see my fingers and my hand moving and even a bit of wrist. For my personal technique, I try to keep the back half of my hand planted on the bridge at all times and and use the front half of my hand for picking. So I don't move the entire hand back and forth.

The advantages are that the mute never slips as the palm never moves. Also, I'm only using half of my hand and some finger movement, so it's very efficient and doesn't take much energy. When I used to pick from the elbow, my arm would get tired when I played near my top speed. I wanted to find a way to be able to practice at full speed for about an hour without my arm burning out. This is what I came up with so it's what I try to share with my students smile.gif

This is entirely clean guitar. No distortion at all so you can hear every single pick strike. Playing totally clean is a good way to see if there are gaps in ones picking imho. There is no gain to help blend notes together. This is just for demonstration purposes.


Here is a vid about how I mute and pick. It illustrates my overall approach. It's what I try to share with students.


Here is a great example from BOOTCAMPER AZUREUS. He's not shredding here but his mute and picking technique are a very good example of the style I try to teach. I borrowed it directly from Paul Gilbert as he always seemed to have no limit in terms of how fast or how long he shred.





QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 3 2021, 11:23 AM) *
Great thread Todd! Some thoughts...

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 4 2021, 12:30 AM
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Gabriel Leopardi
May 5 2021, 01:58 PM
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That's interesting Todd! This confirms the theory that there is not only 1 way to play alternate picking...

Check and compare these right hands:













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Mertay
May 5 2021, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 5 2021, 12:58 PM) *


Rick's video is exactly what I mean't on one of my previous posts, well find!

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Todd Simpson
May 5 2021, 09:06 PM
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BINGO! Rick is a great example of the style of picking that I try to teach. notice his hand seems to barely move and he keeps a constant mute.

of course, there are many ways to shred. I do try to avoid using the "pick from the elbow" as it simply requires too much energy and the arm gets burned out to quickly imho. However, for some people it's the only way they can manage to play fast. By tensing up and using the elbow as a fulcrum.

QUOTE (Mertay @ May 5 2021, 09:06 AM) *
Rick's video is exactly what I mean't on one of my previous posts, well find!

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azureus
May 6 2021, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 5 2021, 09:06 PM) *
BINGO! Rick is a great example of the style of picking that I try to teach. notice his hand seems to barely move and he keeps a constant mute.

of course, there are many ways to shred. I do try to avoid using the "pick from the elbow" as it simply requires too much energy and the arm gets burned out to quickly imho. However, for some people it's the only way they can manage to play fast. By tensing up and using the elbow as a fulcrum.



Cool reactions ... I learn a lot from it! ... especially and what Todd is hammered into me ..RELAX that hand !! stroke the strings very softly! ... and it works and I think it is the ALL most important thing! ... when the hand is under tension it kills! ... which is often the case with me ... but i'm working on it !!! ... thank you gmc for waking me up and keeping me! smile.gif rolleyes.gif biggrin.gif tongue.gif


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 1 2021, 02:32 PM) *
I understand pauls style and for most would agree , but for some they will pick different than others and if they fail cause they can't pick like you and all they needed to do was try a slightly different style , would you rather have them give up cause they can't pick like you or find a style in which they can excel at?




I have to say I always had a very bad picking way that came naturally ... so I thought that's the way! .. but oh so wrong! i got nowhere! .. and when i tried the way suggested i thought i can't !! it's very strange to me! .. but i BELIEVED in it and kept repeating it .. slow and fast and now it starts anyway to come !! .. in other words nothing is impossible! .. keep trying! don't give up and you will be surprised! smile.gif smile.gif

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azureus
May 6 2021, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 5 2021, 09:06 PM) *
BINGO! Rick is a great example of the style of picking that I try to teach. notice his hand seems to barely move and he keeps a constant mute.

of course, there are many ways to shred. I do try to avoid using the "pick from the elbow" as it simply requires too much energy and the arm gets burned out to quickly imho. However, for some people it's the only way they can manage to play fast. By tensing up and using the elbow as a fulcrum.



Never think that it is not possible .. the first time it felt very difficult and strange! .. but I have to listen to my teacher!. I practiced and visualized it all day the way Todd has done it for me! .. and on 1 day I came close I think?! .. then it has not to do with talent that I was so convinced of .. just DO it and PERMANENT! .. I thank the great teachers here and I am very happy that i am here ... i should have done years ago .... biggrin.gif tongue.gif

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This post has been edited by azureus: May 6 2021, 01:39 PM
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