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Can You Read Music?
Phil66
Nov 9 2021, 01:00 PM
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I can't either but then again, I can't play like these people biggrin.gif

https://youtu.be/rZbkY_RRL2A

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MonkeyDAthos
Nov 9 2021, 03:56 PM
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I am very rusty i probably could not do it in real time nowdays biggrin.gif but I could work it out.

A good exercise is to take like 8 bars of music and just practice it daily. Ofc always a diferent set of 8 bars.

ultimately we want to get to a point where we recognize a set of notes as a whole word rather than individual letters.


Alas i suck at it!

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Monica Gheorghev...
Nov 9 2021, 05:08 PM
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Are many known musicians that aren't able to read music.
Eric Clapton tells a story in his biography. He had to play with Aretha Franklin and suddenly he became very nervous and embarrassed when everybody else was playing from a sheet and he didn't know how to read any of it.

I know to read music because was the first thing that I have learned in music school. But constantly I choose a piano sheet and play to be sure that I keep the speed of reading at a high level. A too long pause can gives me troubles (in the bass clef, never in the treble clef). That's why practicing this skill at piano it's perfect because it force me read both clefs in the same time. biggrin.gif
But overall...learning this it's nothing complicated and if you follow the right steps, things are very easy for understanding.


From my point of view, this ability has many benefits:
- the main priceless thing that a music sheet gives you, it's the precise notation of rhythms.

- playing with other musicians - a music sheet help to avoid confusions (musically and rhythmically).

- if you need to play with an orchestra or to record a particular song for someone, the probability to receive a music sheet and have only 2-3 days to learn this, is big.

- it's good when you want to write your compositions

- playing accuracy - I mean....even if you have perfect ears trained, sometimes if you learn a song by ear and check this with the original music sheet, can you find one or two notes that you not noticed or are played different.
Don't get me wrong....I'm totally pro in not using tabs. Learning by ear it's a best way to train your hearing. But....to be sure if your practice have good results, it's always better to verify yourself at the end of work with the original music sheet. This is how I always do things (even for our GMC lessons). I verify myself few times even when I'm more than sure that I not made any mistake. wink.gif

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 9 2021, 05:36 PM
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I'm not gonna make the decision for anyone on whether to learn it or not, but I know what I prefer - and if I was teaching music I'd probably push a bit towards it. It's a good tool to have in the tool box. You don't have to take it to the extremes, but knowing rhythm notation and the basics of clefs and so on is valuable, IMO.

There are also people who run fine without shoes. They still run, right? But you could also run while wearing shoes and if used in the right way maybe it could benefit you smile.gif

That was maybe a bad analogy, but my point is that I think it should be thought of as a "can it benefit me if I learn this?" rather than a "this or that person didn't learn it, so why should I learn it?" smile.gif

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klasaine
Nov 9 2021, 05:47 PM
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The ability to read (or not read) music has zero bearing on one's musicianship. Think of all the great blind musicians in every style.

It's really more about what you want to do in music. If you wanna play classical guitar or piano or violin, etc. - you better know how to read. If you want to be a studio musician you at least need to be able to read a chord chart and understand all the symbols that relate to the key, tempo and form of whatever piece.

I just got this and about 60 more pages similar to it for a musical show I'll be doing next week. Obviously 'reading' is mandatory.

Attached Image

If you just want to write songs, record your songs, maybe have a band ... you don't need to know how to read music.

Even at the remedial level it is really helpful for communication. Let's say you want a real cellist to play some lines in your song - sure, you can sing it to them but if you can at least notate the part, even a little bit you'll 1) make it easier to get done what you need in a timely fashion and 2) get some respect from the cellist.

At the very least, if you can read a little bit, you'll have access to a lot of music that's not available in TAB or as a YT lesson. Especially classical music, jazz and a lot of traditional music.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 9 2021, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 9 2021, 06:47 PM) *
The ability to read (or not read) music has zero bearing on one's musicianship. Think of all the great blind musicians in every style.

It's really more about what you want to do in music. If you wanna play classical guitar or piano or violin, etc. - you better know how to read. If you want to be a studio musician you at least need to be able to read a chord chart and understand all the symbols that relate to the key, tempo and form of whatever piece.

I just got this and about 60 more pages similar to it for a musical show I'll be doing next week. Obviously 'reading' is mandatory.

Attached Image

If you just want to write songs, record your songs, maybe have a band ... you don't need to know how to read music.

Even at the remedial level it is really helpful for communication. Let's say you want a real cellist to play some lines in your song - sure, you can sing it to them but if you can at least notate the part, even a little bit you'll 1) make it easier to get done what you need in a timely fashion and 2) get some respect from the cellist.

At the very least, if you can read a little bit, you'll have access to a lot of music that's not available in TAB or as a YT lesson. Especially classical music, jazz and a lot of traditional music.


Well said. As I said above "you can run without shoes, but you might run better with shoes", and maybe it was kind of a bad analogy, but I agree with your assessment hear.

Of course I'm not well versed in actual sheet, and I mostly use Guitar Pro - but I still think it differs from your standard text-based tabs. It has the sheet music above, and I actively use that in terms of "seeing" melody lines, movement, rhythm and all those things. I.e. tab is more so determining whether I'd play the E on the high e string, 9th from of the G etc. and it can help navigate where to play certain things more effectively perhaps - i.e. instead of 0-2-3-5 on the high e-string, you might want to move that starting note to the B string. Just an example anyway. I think knowing sheet is valuable - depending on the situation you're in. Even in band practice, I think it can be useful and relays information much quicker and effectively allows you to focus elsewhere rather than struggling to get information across.

This is not to say one's ear shouldn't be a focus too, by the way. Notation has taught me a lot though, and while I'm no Beethoven (who went deaf, if I recall correctly) I actually feel comfortable enough that I could go on writing music should I lose my hearing. I know (to some extent) what works and what doesn't. I.e. movement between chords, melody lines and so on. And a lot of that - for me - is down to notation.

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Phil66
Nov 9 2021, 06:12 PM
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Well this has turned into an interesting discussion, which I was hoping for.

I can work out notes if I have to but that's about it.

I guess the good thing about being able to read music is that you don't need to have heard the piece before in order to play it, unlike tab.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 9 2021, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 9 2021, 07:12 PM) *
Well this has turned into an interesting discussion, which I was hoping for.

I can work out notes if I have to but that's about it.

I guess the good thing about being able to read music is that you don't need to have heard the piece before in order to play it, unlike tab.


That's one of the reasons why I like sheet - and the tabs in Guitar Pro format, as GP-file format (tab with sheet) allows you to play it without hearing the piece. cool.gif

I.e.

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Phil66
Nov 9 2021, 08:41 PM
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I couldn't remember how it went so I got this to have a look and follow the music. It helps to understand the note lengths.I know it's cheating but it has helped me understand it a little. It's one of those subjects I'd have to take baby steps with wink.gif

I kinda get it now but those dotted notes are tricky, for me anyway wink.gif

https://youtu.be/wJJGikSD9ho

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Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 9 2021, 08:57 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 9 2021, 09:41 PM) *
I couldn't remember how it went so I got this to have a look and follow the music. It helps to understand the note lengths.I know it's cheating but it has helped me understand it a little. It's one of those subjects I'd have to take baby steps with wink.gif

I kinda get it now but those dotted notes are tricky, for me anyway wink.gif

https://youtu.be/wJJGikSD9ho


There's no cheating. It's a good way to learn, and I think I took the same approach to listen to a song and follow along. I've never heard the song by the way, but I could play it based on the notes. Gonna listen to the song now.

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PosterBoy
Nov 11 2021, 07:51 PM
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I kind of can. Not very well due to not regularly practicing using it but I know the basics and it helps me with the mandolin

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Todd Simpson
Nov 11 2021, 09:52 PM
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Since it's music not poker, I think your spot on, there really isn't any "cheating" wink.gif Guitar pro is a great tool for writing, reading, learning, composing, etc. I learned to read music in college when I was taking classical guitar. it was slow going at first to be sure. I found that I ended up composing using actual guitars rather than composing in software and then translating it but thats just because i got used to doing it that way.


QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 9 2021, 03:57 PM) *
There's no cheating. It's a good way to learn, and I think I took the same approach to listen to a song and follow along. I've never heard the song by the way, but I could play it based on the notes. Gonna listen to the song now.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 13 2021, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 11 2021, 10:52 PM) *
Since it's music not poker, I think your spot on, there really isn't any "cheating" wink.gif Guitar pro is a great tool for writing, reading, learning, composing, etc. I learned to read music in college when I was taking classical guitar. it was slow going at first to be sure. I found that I ended up composing using actual guitars rather than composing in software and then translating it but thats just because i got used to doing it that way.


There's certainly been a shift in technology that makes writing and composing easier for a lot of people, but I think even in the past some composers were writing without being able to play certain instruments. I mean way back in the classical era. I remember reading that about a few composers - just writing on paper of course. But the advancements in technology mean we learn in different ways of course, for better and worse. Maybe less "learning by ear" these days, cause of sheet, tab, programs and so on. It comes with good and bad things, I guess - boundaries are being pushed in different directions (cause of the use of technology), and that's not necesarily bad, as long as we keep using our ears to determine what's good and bad sounding, but that's a very subjective thing. I can listen to electronically created music (on a PC) such as some chillstep (or other similar genres) and like it a lot too - cause of the melodies. I don't really care if a melody was played on an actual instrument. If the melody is good, then the melody is good. However, the development is interesting of course.

I think I remember JC Bryant talking about using Guitar Pro for the writing process in Scale the Summit here:



Around 14 minutes in he talks about it, I think. Was clicking through the video, but have to leave for a party...NOW or I'll be late biggrin.gif

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Todd Simpson
Nov 14 2021, 07:23 PM
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Im with ya smile.gif I think it's a great tool for learning and composing. Of course, I also think learning by ear has it's place as well just in terms of training ones ear and gaining a sense of melody and timing which is a crucial part of becoming a well rounded musician, as we have talked about previously.

Im curious to see what developments A.I. and other tech will bring as we move forward. The only constant being change. smile.gif


QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 13 2021, 02:57 PM) *
There's certainly been a shift in technology that makes writing and composing easier for a lot of people, but I think even in the past some composers were writing without being able to play certain instruments. I mean way back in the classical era. I remember reading that about a few composers - just writing on paper of course. But the advancements in technology mean we learn in different ways of course, for better and worse. Maybe less "learning by ear" these days, cause of sheet, tab, programs and so on. It comes with good and bad things, I guess - boundaries are being pushed in different directions (cause of the use of technology), and that's not necesarily bad, as long as we keep using our ears to determine what's good and bad sounding, but that's a very subjective thing. I can listen to electronically created music (on a PC) such as some chillstep (or other similar genres) and like it a lot too - cause of the melodies. I don't really care if a melody was played on an actual instrument. If the melody is good, then the melody is good. However, the development is interesting of course.

I think I remember JC Bryant talking about using Guitar Pro for the writing process in Scale the Summit here:



Around 14 minutes in he talks about it, I think. Was clicking through the video, but have to leave for a party...NOW or I'll be late biggrin.gif

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 14 2021, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 14 2021, 08:23 PM) *
Im with ya smile.gif I think it's a great tool for learning and composing. Of course, I also think learning by ear has it's place as well just in terms of training ones ear and gaining a sense of melody and timing which is a crucial part of becoming a well rounded musician, as we have talked about previously.

Im curious to see what developments A.I. and other tech will bring as we move forward. The only constant being change. smile.gif


Interestingly enough I was looking at this course recently: https://online.berklee.edu/music-degrees/un...ing#footer-form

It's 60k USD, I think, and there's no way I can afford it, but I was looking through the curriculum too and one of the first lessons states this as an overview:

"You are a songwriter of the twenty-first century, which means you have more options for writing songs than just you and an old acoustic instrument. You’re using your computer to read this course description now, but what you may not realize is that this same computer can be a powerful compositional tool! In Music Production Fundamentals for Songwriters, you will use your computer to compose, produce, refine, and share your music."

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Todd Simpson
Nov 16 2021, 06:30 PM
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Berklee is a great music school of course. The good news is that there are wads of free educational resources as well. Here is one such place.

https://alison.com/tag/music-theory
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 14 2021, 05:30 PM) *
Interestingly enough I was looking at this course recently: https://online.berklee.edu/music-degrees/un...ing#footer-form

It's 60k USD, I think, and there's no way I can afford it, but I was looking through the curriculum too and one of the first lessons states this as an overview:

"You are a songwriter of the twenty-first century, which means you have more options for writing songs than just you and an old acoustic instrument. You’re using your computer to read this course description now, but what you may not realize is that this same computer can be a powerful compositional tool! In Music Production Fundamentals for Songwriters, you will use your computer to compose, produce, refine, and share your music."

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 16 2021, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 16 2021, 07:30 PM) *
Berklee is a great music school of course. The good news is that there are wads of free educational resources as well. Here is one such place.

https://alison.com/tag/music-theory
Attached Image


Of course. There are many resources available online. Having a diploma or document that you've completed a certain education is usually considered more "official" though, much as I think it's not a bad thing to be able to say "I've been a GMC Student for 10+ years", I think most places would consider a degree from Berklee Online School of Music as a more "official" diploma. cool.gif

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klasaine
Nov 17 2021, 02:51 AM
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Here ya go ... a sightreading nightmare.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 17 2021, 03:19 AM
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Yeah, certain sight reading can be a nightmare. First off I'd probably do an 8va to avoid the amount of ledger lines. I might be missing something though, but aren't those "just" D and A notes (key of G) in the first bar, then D# and finally Eb and Bb in the last bars (key of Eb). Gotta stay on your toes though and be comfortable with the sharps/flats and notice the key signature change. I might be missing something though.

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Todd Simpson
Nov 17 2021, 03:22 AM
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to be sure smile.gif Having a degree from an internationally recognized music school has a degree of gravitas that one can't get easily by other less expensive means. It's certainly considered more official. I didn't realize though that this was something you were looking for? Are you wanting to have a music degree for future employment or something else?

Not that long ago, having an "online" degree from a big school was considered "less than" going and doing the degree on campus. That has shifted as well, given how many people are learning remotely these days.



QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 16 2021, 04:12 PM) *
Of course. There are many resources available online. Having a diploma or document that you've completed a certain education is usually considered more "official" though, much as I think it's not a bad thing to be able to say "I've been a GMC Student for 10+ years", I think most places would consider a degree from Berklee Online School of Music as a more "official" diploma. cool.gif

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