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> What Do You Consider Minimum Shredding Speed?
fkalich
post Aug 22 2007, 04:26 AM
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I feel that 170bpm. It seems to me that at 170 things change. I mean 16th notes at 170.

I really think that is fast enough. I am going to try and perfect that speed before I move on. It seems to me if you play at 170, well that is fast, and at that point, you should focus on perfect playing, rather than pushing more speed.
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Pavel
post Aug 22 2007, 04:44 AM
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Yeah that speed is pretty good for start!

I keep to lower tempo as i always play stuff in 6-tuplets which actually makes things sound faster...well, not only sound - it's actually faster biggrin.gif


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The Uncreator
post Aug 22 2007, 04:44 AM
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Thats hard to say, because imagine 32nd notes at 150 bpm, thats still fast, so i guess it depends on what notes your playing, 16th or 32nd, and at what tempo. like for 16th notes, at "X" Tempo, its shred, and for 32nd notes at "Y" tempo its shred, if that makes any sense.

I think you just know it when you hear it.
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Smikey2006
post Aug 22 2007, 06:48 AM
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Yea its pritty Simple, I think the tempo matters more than the notes.. a song at like an 80 tempo.. even 32nd notes aren't that fast.. so i think playing a song at like a 200+ tempo even playing like quarternotes is still 800bpm which is still fast.


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Hemlok
post Aug 22 2007, 07:01 AM
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would chromatic scale be good for trying to speed up 16ths all way up and down neck?


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browq
post Aug 22 2007, 07:58 AM
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Absolutely Hemlok


I also use the cromatic scale as a part of my daily exercise on speedpicking. I use the exercises from the John Petrucci "rock dicipline" dvd. It's great for synchronizing both your right and left hand and your accuracy as well as speed
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Muris Varajic
post Aug 22 2007, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 22 2007, 05:26 AM) *
I feel that 170bpm. It seems to me that at 170 things change. I mean 16th notes at 170.

I really think that is fast enough. I am going to try and perfect that speed before I move on. It seems to me if you play at 170, well that is fast, and at that point, you should focus on perfect playing, rather than pushing more speed.



Mate,are you serious with this???


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fkalich
post Aug 22 2007, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (muris @ Aug 22 2007, 05:50 AM) *
Mate,are you serious with this???


Well yes, I don't understand why it would not seem that way. I have moved it up to 180 anyway as my practicing speed. I have been sort of obsessed with being able to play Canon Rock as well as JerryC by Sep 11, which is the one year anniversary of my starting guitar. Also 911 coincidentally. That is at 200bpm. My saving grace is that JerryC is a bit sloppy. I was trying to talk myself into feeling that playing it well at 170 or 180 was sufficient, but no, that would make me a total weenie. No, it must be 200, and I must have it by 911, or I am a total loser. There, the die is cast, either I do it, or I become an object of ridicule to anyone who reads this thread.
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Muris Varajic
post Aug 22 2007, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 22 2007, 01:39 PM) *
Well yes, I don't understand why it would not seem that way. I have moved it up to 180 anyway as my practicing speed. I have been sort of obsessed with being able to play Canon Rock as well as JerryC by Sep 11, which is the one year anniversary of my starting guitar. Also 911 coincidentally. That is at 200bpm. My saving grace is that JerryC is a bit sloppy. I was trying to talk myself into feeling that playing it well at 170 or 180 was sufficient, but no, that would make me a total weenie. No, it must be 200, and I must have it by 911, or I am a total loser. There, the die is cast, either I do it, or I become an object of ridicule to anyone who reads this thread.


I see smile.gif
Just wanted to say that counting the notes this way is not about music,
it's not even about shred imo.
I would call shred a matter of difficulty,not only of speed.


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lespaulrocker
post Aug 23 2007, 05:35 AM
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well, like most of us have said, it is more a matter of what kind of notes you are playing that sets if a song is fast or not. 200 BPM with all half notes is the same as 100 BPM with quarter notes (i think smile.gif)
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shredmandan
post Aug 23 2007, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (muris @ Aug 22 2007, 02:20 PM) *
I see smile.gif
Just wanted to say that counting the notes this way is not about music,
it's not even about shred imo.
I would call shred a matter of difficulty,not only of speed.



Well said smile.gif
Thats exactly why i love most shred,because the difficulty of technique,speed ,acuracy,picking ,finger movment everything.Thats what makes it great to me because i feel if you can play shred you have the ability to do it all. smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 23 2007, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (muris @ Aug 22 2007, 12:20 PM) *
I see smile.gif
Just wanted to say that counting the notes this way is not about music,
it's not even about shred imo.
I would call shred a matter of difficulty,not only of speed.


There's hope for me yet then smile.gif . I find everything difficult and so play as slowly as possible biggrin.gif .

More seriously - didn't someone like Miles Davis once say that it's not how many notes you play, not even what notes you play but the ones you miss out that count?

Cheers,
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Muris Varajic
post Aug 23 2007, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 23 2007, 08:57 AM) *
There's hope for me yet then smile.gif . I find everything difficult and so play as slowly as possible biggrin.gif .

More seriously - didn't someone like Miles Davis once say that it's not how many notes you play, not even what notes you play but the ones you miss out that count?

Cheers,
Tony




Ahhh...golden words of Miles Tony,thanks for bringing it up again!!! smile.gif
Big true,hardest task is to choose notes NOT to be played wink.gif


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Rawk on
post Aug 30 2007, 06:58 AM
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Rather than just sheer speed, remember to work on your phrasing and pacing as well.
A computer can pump out fast and accurate notes if you program it to, but where's the personality in that?
It just comes off forced and emotionless.

I dig players like Muris because he can kick out the speed when he wants to, but he's multi-dimensional in his playing, it's not all about tricks and technique. He actually has something to say with his solo.

B.B. King can say more with 2 well-placed notes than a lot of shredders can with 200.

BTW, I am not anti-shred, I just get a little bored with technique for technique's sake.
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Josiah
post Nov 6 2007, 04:34 AM
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Some consider shred a style, I rather think of it as a technique instead. The technique of playing a passage so fast that the ear/brain starts to perceive it as an "aural blur" of notes. There does seem to be a threshold speed at which this effect is perceived by most people.

However, you can not really quantify "120 bpm" or "200 bpm" unless you also include the note size you are playing.

Therefore, I suggest we use NPS (notes per second) instead of BPM.

For instance, I feel that at about 10 NPS fast playing starts to become shredding. Very fast players can achieve a speeds of 16 NPS! (playing sixteenth note triplets at 160 bpm)

You can find your own NPS with this formula;

(beats per minute x notes per beat) / 60 = notes per second

Another easy way to determine your NPS, is to play sixteenth note triplets , notice the bpm your playing at, and then divide the bpm by 10 (this only works when playing sixteenth note triplets).


Also, the speed you measure will vary with the technique used and the pattern played.
For instance most people can alternate pick a 3 note per string pattern scale faster than a 2 note per string scale pattern. And whether you are using legato, alternate picking, economy picking or sweep picking will have a big impact on how fast you can play a certain passage also.

So if I say I can alternate pick a 3 note per string major scale at 10 NPS, and I can alternate pick a 2 note per string pentatonic scale at 9 NPS, you could compare your own speed with this easily.

This post has been edited by Josiah: Nov 6 2007, 04:35 AM


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Ryan
post Nov 6 2007, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (Josiah @ Nov 5 2007, 09:34 PM) *
Some consider shred a style, I rather think of it as a technique instead. The technique of playing a passage so fast that the ear/brain starts to perceive it as an "aural blur" of notes. There does seem to be a threshold speed at which this effect is perceived by most people.

However, you can not really quantify "120 bpm" or "200 bpm" unless you also include the note size you are playing.

Therefore, I suggest we use NPS (notes per second) instead of BPM.

For instance, I feel that at about 10 NPS fast playing starts to become shredding. Very fast players can achieve a speeds of 16 NPS! (playing sixteenth note triplets at 160 bpm)

You can find your own NPS with this formula;

(beats per minute x notes per beat) / 60 = notes per second

Another easy way to determine your NPS, is to play sixteenth note triplets , notice the bpm your playing at, and then divide the bpm by 10 (this only works when playing sixteenth note triplets).
Also, the speed you measure will vary with the technique used and the pattern played.
For instance most people can alternate pick a 3 note per string pattern scale faster than a 2 note per string scale pattern. And whether you are using legato, alternate picking, economy picking or sweep picking will have a big impact on how fast you can play a certain passage also.

So if I say I can alternate pick a 3 note per string major scale at 10 NPS, and I can alternate pick a 2 note per string pentatonic scale at 9 NPS, you could compare your own speed with this easily.

wow, I did that little formula you did. I just found out. That I have played 12nps before!!


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Man0waR
post Nov 13 2007, 12:43 PM
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I told myself I won't barge in this thread , but even thought momentarily I'm not interested in building speed yet [given I'm still an almost complete beginner] - I've bothered to practice some simple shapes and player-friendly scales like minor pentatonic with the metronome lately. Indeed [and it's pretty obvious] at least for beginners and intermediate players - some shapes are twice as difficult to play at half the speed you can play the easy parts.

I'm managing the really easy stuff at 7nps at the moment. I suppose that's ok right now , given I still have some time before I can get to an intermediate level of playing.
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Zephyr
post Nov 13 2007, 01:12 PM
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Psh, 16 NPS is nothing. Shred starts at 732.12 NPS.
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jammer91
post Nov 14 2007, 10:25 PM
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Woah! 16th notes at 170 bpm? A minimum?

I must really suck bad. I can play triplets at 160 bpm (truplets at 100) even after practicing hard. I think thats enough speed to shred.

I use this metronome:
http://www.metronomeonline.com/

Please tell me its rigged.

How long did it take you to jump into that speed?
.


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Tomy Jeon
post Dec 22 2007, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE (Josiah @ Nov 6 2007, 04:34 PM) *
(beats per minute x notes per beat) / 60 = notes per second


This helped a lot. Thanks man. Right now I can play 16th chromatic notes at 100 BPM which is 6 2/3 NPS. dry.gif My goal is 140 BPM.


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