Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Metronome, couple questions.
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 03:39 AM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



Ok honestly Ive never been really serious with the metronome dry.gif *Sigh*, I just get lost in the beats when different things are played at higher speeds and I dont quite now how to piece it together so what im playing is still musical but then again is still simple enough that I can play to the sync. of the beat. Does that make sense ?

Ok so im going to make this post pretty organized so hopefully I can get some help and start to develop some demon speed smile.gif Suprisingly I do have fairly good speed without using the metronome ! Yet I never quite know how fast im playing.

Heres my first and pretty much main problem. Staying in Sync
Now dont be fouled but all my lack of information. I do know about the metronome, what it does and etc. I understand that most pieces are in 4/4 time signature and each measure has 4 beats. I understand the triplets are 3npb and 6tuplets are 6npb. And how to apply that to the piece of music im trying to play.

This is a tab from Pavels " Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson found in the2nd video


|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
E||--20-19-17----------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-----------20-18-17-20-18-17----------------------------------------------|
G||-----------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------------------------|
D||-----------------------------------------------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
A||-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|


|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--19-17-16----------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------19-17-15----------------------------|
|-----------------------------19-17-15----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|


The piece itself is in 6-tuplets ( very fast) and I dont have much trouble with the sequence its just playing it to the beat thats the hard part. At around 40bpm I can stay pretty well with 6-tuplets but as I started to go higher, lets say 70bpm, the beat itself is so fast I cant count " 1-2-3-4-5-6" at that rate and eventually just am totally lost . Im using this Metronome and I dont believe theres any problem there I just want to be able to use the metronome effectly and continue my practicing without having to make topics like this. Its very easy for me to apply the metronome to sweeping picking, just not alternate picking.


Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank tongue.gif If you know what I mean.


- John smile.gif


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shredmandan
post Aug 26 2007, 04:16 AM
Post #2


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.311
Joined: 26-February 07
From: Tennessee , USA
Member No.: 1.260



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 25 2007, 10:39 PM) *
Ok honestly Ive never been really serious with the metronome dry.gif *Sigh*, I just get lost in the beats when different things are played at higher speeds and I dont quite now how to piece it together so what im playing is still musical but then again is still simple enough that I can play to the sync. of the beat. Does that make sense ?

Ok so im going to make this post pretty organized so hopefully I can get some help and start to develop some demon speed smile.gif Suprisingly I do have fairly good speed without using the metronome ! Yet I never quite know how fast im playing.

Heres my first and pretty much main problem. Staying in Sync
Now dont be fouled but all my lack of information. I do know about the metronome, what it does and etc. I understand that most pieces are in 4/4 time signature and each measure has 4 beats. I understand the triplets are 3npb and 6tuplets are 6npb. And how to apply that to the piece of music im trying to play.

This is a tab from Pavels " Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson found in the2nd video


|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
E||--20-19-17----------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-----------20-18-17-20-18-17----------------------------------------------|
G||-----------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------------------------|
D||-----------------------------------------------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
A||-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--19-17-16----------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------19-17-15----------------------------|
|-----------------------------19-17-15----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|


The piece itself is in 6-tuplets ( very fast) and I dont have much trouble with the sequence its just playing it to the beat thats the hard part. At around 40bpm I can stay pretty well with 6-tuplets but as I started to go higher, lets say 70bpm, the beat itself is so fast I cant count " 1-2-3-4-5-6" at that rate and eventually just am totally lost . Im using this Metronome and I dont believe theres any problem there I just want to be able to use the metronome effectly and continue my practicing without having to make topics like this. Its very easy for me to apply the metronome to sweeping picking, just not alternate picking.
Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank tongue.gif If you know what I mean.
- John smile.gif



Hey dude
Wish i could help you but i dont even know what any tuplets are?? tongue.gif I did want to ask though is that correct on the tabs were it says you play two strings together blink.gif Just sounds really weird and i didnt know if it was a typo.


--------------------
My Gear
Cort X-2 electric with 24 frets and 2 humbucker's dark Blue
Kustom DFX100 With Celestion Speakers,and thats it now (lol)

My Advice
Figure out what you want in life early.Wether it's the girl,the partying
or mastering the guitar.Adding any 2 together will get in your way.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Aug 26 2007, 04:40 AM
Post #3


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 25 2007, 09:39 PM) *
The piece itself is in 6-tuplets ( very fast) and I dont have much trouble with the sequence its just playing it to the beat thats the hard part. At around 40bpm I can stay pretty well with 6-tuplets but as I started to go higher, lets say 70bpm, the beat itself is so fast I cant count " 1-2-3-4-5-6" at that rate and eventually just am totally lost . Im using this Metronome and I dont believe theres any problem there I just want to be able to use the metronome effectly and continue my practicing without having to make topics like this. Its very easy for me to apply the metronome to sweeping picking, just not alternate picking.
Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank tongue.gif If you know what I mean.
- John smile.gif


You are looking at this in the wrong way. Metronomes are for your basic tempo. But the granular rhythms, such as a 6 tuplet rhythm, are not simple like that, you have to learn them by ear, they have accents and subtleties which cannot be reduced to anything that simple. you have to listen to someone playing them, and work for that rhythm. The metronome tells you where to play the 6 tuplet unit, but the rhythm and accenting of the 6 tuplet itself must be learn by ear.

edit: well, I can sort of describe it, at least the rhythm and accenting that I use. it is sort of like

be-de da ba-da-da

say that fast repetitively.

no, I take it back, it is more like...

be-de-de ba-da-da

but you get the idea, learn this by ear, listening to others play them. sometimes you have to listen fast, the teachers sometimes lose the rhythm and accenting when they show you how to do it slow.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Aug 26 2007, 04:58 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 05:06 AM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 25 2007, 07:40 PM) *
You are looking at this in the wrong way. Metronomes are for your basic tempo. But the granular rhythms, such as a 6 tuplet rhythm, are not simple like that, you have to learn them by ear, they have accents and subtleties which cannot be reduced to anything that simple. you have to listen to someone playing them, and work for that rhythm. The metronome tells you where to play the 6 tuplet unit, but the rhythm and accenting of the 6 tuplet itself must be learn by ear.

edit: well, I can sort of describe it, at least the rhythm and accenting that I use. it is sort of like

be-de da ba-da-da

say that fast repetitively.

no, I take it back, it is more like...

be-de-de ba-da-da

but you get the idea, learn this by ear, listening to others play them. sometimes you have to listen fast, the teachers sometimes lose the rhythm and accenting when they show you how to do it slow.



Ok so what your saying is 6-tuplets cant be applied to the metronome ? I just need to try and mimic and work my way up to the speed of the instructor well still preserving the accentation ?


- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Aug 26 2007, 05:19 AM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 25 2007, 11:06 PM) *
Ok so what your saying is 6-tuplets cant be applied to the metronome ? I just need to try and mimic and work my way up to the speed of the instructor well still preserving the accentation ?
- John


yeah, I think so. the metronome tells you WHERE to play the 6 tuplet, but the 6 tuplet itself is a unit with it's own rhythm and accent, and that just has to be in your ear, how to play it.

I would work on them, just play one repetitively, and get to where you feel you have a nice sound to it, where it is real bouncy, you know, where it sounds neat to play one repetitively, where it it has a nice bounce and flow.

then you put that into the music, at the right spot, according to where the metronome did it's beat. think of the tuplet as a unit, and insert it as a unit.

great rhythm and accenting is very subtle, can't be reduced to paper, but you know it when you have it. and then you just put it into muscle memory, and it becomes like walking, you don't have to think about it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Aug 26 2007, 05:24 AM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



Well said.
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 05:36 AM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



QUOTE (muris @ Aug 25 2007, 08:24 PM) *
Well said.
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.smile.gif



Im finally starting to get the idea, I wish I had posts like this months ago smile.gif Thanks guys smile.gif
Now are triplets more do-able ? Could I play those to a metronome or what ?


- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Aug 26 2007, 05:41 AM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 26 2007, 06:36 AM) *
Im finally starting to get the idea, I wish I had posts like this months ago smile.gif Thanks guys smile.gif
Now are triplets more do-able ? Could I play those to a metronome or what ?
- John



Of course you can John smile.gif

Let metronome counts beats while you play 6 notes inside each beat.
Or you could play 3 notes per beat which is 8th triplet,
but if you slow metronome double time it'll be 2 triplets of 16th notes again. smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 05:51 AM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



QUOTE (muris @ Aug 25 2007, 08:41 PM) *
Of course you can John smile.gif

Let metronome counts beats while you play 6 notes inside each beat.
Or you could play 3 notes per beat which is 8th triplet,
but if you slow metronome double time it'll be 2 triplets of 16th notes again. smile.gif



If sped up woudnt the triplets eventually be faster then the 6-tuplets ?



- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Aug 26 2007, 05:57 AM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



Yep smile.gif
It'll be faster if you speed it up more than double time.


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Aug 26 2007, 06:03 AM
Post #11


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (muris @ Aug 25 2007, 11:24 PM) *
Well said.
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.smile.gif


good words.

QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 25 2007, 11:51 PM) *
If sped up woudnt the triplets eventually be faster then the 6-tuplets ?
- John


NO! The 6 tuplet is not the same as 3 triplets. the rhythm and accenting on the first and second set of 3 notes is not identical.

this is very difficult, rhythm and accenting. both slow, and at speed. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out such things a few bars of music, but it is worth the effort, really, this is what makes the better musicians stand out, not speed, speed is crap without this. this is what really really matters, and it is very very difficult to work on. it is so subtle, to get this where it really is just right. but if it is not just right, people can tell the difference.

edit: correction, I misread what you said, I thought you said that 2 triplets in sequence would be the same as a 6 tuplet.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Aug 26 2007, 06:05 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 06:11 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 25 2007, 09:03 PM) *
good words.
NO! The 6 tuplet is not the same as 3 triplets. the rhythm and accenting on the first and second set of 3 notes is not identical.

this is very difficult, rhythm and accenting. both slow, and at speed. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out such things a few bars of music, but it is worth the effort, really, this is what makes the better musicians stand out, not speed, speed is crap without this. this is what really really matters, and it is very very difficult to work on. it is so subtle, to get this where it really is just right. but if it is not just right, people can tell the difference.

edit: correction, I misread what you said, I thought you said that 2 triplets in sequence would be the same as a 6 tuplet.



Accenting is like one of those things that seperates the shreders from the wanna-bees correct? I think with hard work Ill get these speed runs to sound amazing.


- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Aug 26 2007, 06:14 AM
Post #13


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



Wise words John,hard work solves many problems indeed! smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Aug 26 2007, 06:16 AM
Post #14


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Aug 26 2007, 12:11 AM) *
Accenting is like one of those things that seperates the shreders from the wanna-bees correct? I think with hard work Ill get these speed runs to sound amazing.
- John


I feel that way. if you listen to say Gilbert, that is a good example of where you can hear someone who can play at speed, and still maintain coherent accenting and rhythm on each triplet, 4 note, whatever unit. And that is why he sounds good, and other guys playing that fast just sound like a blur. When they sound like a blur, they have lost the things we are talking about here.

btw, if you read this muris, great tapping lesson. really like that, because it is showing how to use tapping for music, where it just melds in, rather than standing out as sort of a circus trick. very good lesson, keep them coming.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Aug 26 2007, 06:26 AM
Post #15


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 26 2007, 07:16 AM) *
btw, if you read this muris, great tapping lesson. really like that, because it is showing how to use tapping for music, where it just melds in, rather than standing out as sort of a circus trick. very good lesson, keep them coming.


Many thanks,I'll do my best! smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Aug 26 2007, 06:27 AM
Post #16


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 25 2007, 09:16 PM) *
I feel that way. if you listen to say Gilbert, that is a good example of where you can hear someone who can play at speed, and still maintain coherent accenting and rhythm on each triplet, 4 note, whatever unit. And that is why he sounds good, and other guys playing that fast just sound like a blur. When they sound like a blur, they have lost the things we are talking about here.

btw, if you read this muris, great tapping lesson. really like that, because it is showing how to use tapping for music, where it just melds in, rather than standing out as sort of a circus trick. very good lesson, keep them coming.



Yeah you know and it becomes more obvious once you look at it. I understand now why Gilberts guitar kind of sounds for like of a better term like a " River " it just flows and flows well still remaining to be clean and precise.

Feel free to join me in chat if youd like to discuss any of this, its really a great topic. smile.gif
And also this Ionian Scale thing is really helping me learn the major scale, and I didnt relise it ? tongue.gif


- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th March 2017 - 11:50 AM